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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #1  
Old 05-14-2019, 11:45 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Default Is it time to do more? Intimate Partner/ Domestic Violence

In Canada, section 718 of the Criminal Code provides for an increased sentence when hate is determined to be an aggravating circumstance.

While gender is in the enumerated group under the section...one can't help but wonder if it's time for the Federal government to look at implementing a similar provision for intimate partner violence, or domestic violence.

If you punch a stranger- let's look at the circumstances and maybe look at alternative sentencing like peace bonds, required anger management counselling, etc...but if you punch your domestic partner? Should it be something more?

I think it is time we look at it. Too many women are dying in these situations. And in many of the cases, there are historical charges against accused. But they are relatively minor in nature (I mean- relative to the charge of murder).

The outcome of these charges are too often a slap on the wrist. You slammed your wife/gf's head against the stairs? Let's send you to a 12 week group course and then send you right back to your wife- so you can beat her some more. Oh- you're wealthy? Don't worry- you can get away with it at least a couple more times, or at least until you kill her.

You can literally beat the shit out of your partner- and simply face anger management counselling if it's your first time. Or maybe nothing at all.

It's time to stop feeling sad and downtrodden when we read about yet another:

Elana Fric
Riya Rajkumar
Shubangi Amin
Holly Hamilton

And so many more.

If you drive drunk once- you lose your licence. On your second conviction- you go to jail. I don't see why a similar system should not be in place now.

Domestic violence and the relationship between the accused and victim SHOULD be an aggravating factor in sentencing.

I'm not sure what the answer is- but I'm going to try to find an answer to this. This is an election issue.


Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 05-14-2019, 06:35 PM
Helpmyspouse Helpmyspouse is offline
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I agree with you whole heartedly. In fact, the case of Elana Fric has been weighing on my heart since the last post on this forum about how from a jail cell he was able to fight for custody of the children just out of spite to drain Elana's parents of a million dollars. Money that could have gone to the children. The system is so effen broken on so many levels. A mentally ill man kills his spouse and he goes to anger management. Is that what he really needs? My exspouse choked me in a psychotic rage. He was ordered anger management! I told the person at the John Howard Society this is fine and dandy but it is not what he needs. He needs to be forced to take meds. Yes, as you say it should be an aggravating factor in sentencing. Your home is supposed to be your safe haven. Your spouse is supposed to make you feel safe always. The laws have to change. The system is so broken.
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Old 05-15-2019, 11:16 AM
Stillbreathing Stillbreathing is offline
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We need a #metoodomesticviolence&familycourtabuse movement.
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Old 05-15-2019, 04:03 PM
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Janus Janus is offline
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Why is it worse to assault a spouse than a friend or stranger?

Your list of names is nice, but my understanding is that the victims of violence are overwhelmingly male. Your counter may be that the perpetrators are also overwhelmingly male. This leads to my follow up question: If people of my gender commit more crimes, does that mean that I have less right to not be a victim?

Or, let's racialize it.

If one ethnic group commits fewer crimes on average, should an assault on a member of that "less violent" group result in a lengthier sentence? For example, if Japanese commit fewer crimes than Brazilians, should you get a longer sentence for assaulting somebody who is Japanese?
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Old 05-16-2019, 09:20 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Why is it worse to assault a spouse than a friend or stranger?
It has to do with the nature of the relationship between spouses. There is supposed to be an inherent level of trust. It's a person who has access to your life- who is in the position to control the other person.

Also- we need more of a deterrent. You want to beat on your partner (female or male) or your child- well, you're going to be facing something more.

Quote:
Your list of names is nice, but my understanding is that the victims of violence are overwhelmingly male. Your counter may be that the perpetrators are also overwhelmingly male. This leads to my follow up question: If people of my gender commit more crimes, does that mean that I have less right to not be a victim?

Or, let's racialize it.

If one ethnic group commits fewer crimes on average, should an assault on a member of that "less violent" group result in a lengthier sentence? For example, if Japanese commit fewer crimes than Brazilians, should you get a longer sentence for assaulting somebody who is Japanese?
My list of names are names that are preventable.

That's glaring point- these deaths are preventable. They should not be taking place- not every couple of days.

As Stillbreathing points out again, and again, and again- domestic homicide is the MOST preventable homicide.

As a society we need to start taking a stand and saying these actions aren't acceptable. They aren't our values- we do not condone violence in the home- be it against your wife, husband, parent or child. Home is supposed to be a safe haven- and when you have a partner or spouse using their position of trust to harm another person- that warrants something more.

Last edited by iona6656; 05-16-2019 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 05-16-2019, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
Also- we need more of a deterrent. You want to beat on your partner (female or male) or your child- well, you're going to be facing something more.
I'm skeptical about the deterrence value of longer jail sentences. Deterrence is very effective at stopping me from stealing candy from the local grocery store. If I'm willing to commit a serious assault, I'm not sure if I care much about whether the sentence is two years or ten years. At that point I'm assuming that I will not be caught, so the actual sentence is irrelevant.


Quote:
My list of names are names that are preventable.
Depending on your definition of preventable, either almost all crimes are preventable, or almost none. I don't think there is a special "preventable" attribute to your list. The main attribute of your list appears to be "victim didn't have a penis, so the crime is more serious".

Quote:
That's glaring point- these deaths are preventable. They should not be taking place- not every couple of days.
Which deaths should be taking place?

Is it ok to shoot a gang banger because, well, he's a gang banger?

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As a society we need to start taking a stand and saying these actions aren't acceptable.
I think we do. People go to jail. There is an entire list of actions that are not acceptable. You want to specifically increase the punishment for crimes against a certain victim class, for reasons that are not necessarily axiomatically reasonable.

Quote:
They aren't our values- we do not condone violence in the home- be it against your wife, husband, parent or child. Home is supposed to be a safe haven- and when you have a partner or spouse using their position of trust to harm another person- that warrants something more.
If somebody invades my home, does that warrant something more?

If somebody attacks a child, does that warrant something more? Does a stranger get a discount if they attack a child, compared to a family member?

If somebody attacks me while at work, does that warrant something more?

If somebody mugs me while I'm in my backyard, does that warrant something more?

If somebody attacks me while I'm in a public changeroom, and I'm very naked and vulnerable, does that warrant something more?

Lots of places are supposed to be safe havens. Home is just on the list of places that I would count as "should be safe".

Honestly, I think your call to action sounds like Hollywoodism. When men die, that's just business as usual, but the death of a woman is a tragedy. As a male, I don't appreciate my life and bodily integrity being so casually designated as being less worthy of protection for a variety of reasons.
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:14 PM
ifonlyihadknown ifonlyihadknown is offline
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I do agree with Iona that domestic violence is more serious than assaults outside the home, mainly because it should be a safe place and it's often very difficult to leave the home.

However, I'm going to drop some data here from a CDC study on domestic violence that indicates that domestic violence is an issue, independent of sex.

Quote:
In a 2010 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) study, reporting on domestic violence in the U.S., 26% of gay men said that they experienced physical violence, stalking, or rape by their partners.[21] 29% of heterosexual men reported similar violence in the same study.

The CDC also stated that 40% of lesbian women reported physical violence by their partners, and 44% reported experiencing physical violence, stalking, or rape by their partners. In contrast, 35% of heterosexual women reported physical violence, stalking, or rape by their partners in the same study.[21]
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Old 05-16-2019, 03:24 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ifonlyihadknown View Post
I do agree with Iona that domestic violence is more serious than assaults outside the home, mainly because it should be a safe place and it's often very difficult to leave the home.

However, I'm going to drop some data here from that indicates that domestic violence is an issue, independent of sex.
Yes it is. I completely agree.

The names I list are there because they are what is reported in the media- and one of the last ones - Shubangi Amin - her name has *barely* been reported. I have some thoughts on that (*cough* intersectionality. racism. classism. etc etc *cough*)...much less the men that are suffering at the hands of their partners- male and female.

Look at Bruce McArthur- there is definitely concern there that he should have been caught earlier- but a complaint made against him by another gay male was not taken as seriously as it could've/should've been....

that's why we should properly be using the term "intimate partner violence" v. "domestic violence" because DV connotes husband on wife violence. And that is limiting to the issue.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
Honestly, I think your call to action sounds like Hollywoodism. When men die, that's just business as usual, but the death of a woman is a tragedy. As a male, I don't appreciate my life and bodily integrity being so casually designated as being less worthy of protection for a variety of reasons.
I have stuff to say to your other responses. but I think you're missing my point. this is not a female/male thing- it's an 'intimate partner' thing.

If men are dying and being abused by females- it's equally as bad.

If you are a man and you get assaulted by another man or woman you are in a relationship with- that's bad. That's intimate partner violence.

The death of people- at the hands of their partners is tragic. The death of children in retaliation against a former partner is even MORE tragic.

Your life and body are not less worthy.

My call to action is this: if you are in a relationship with someone- an intimate relationship. If they hurt you, if they intimidate and use violence or the threat of violence to control you- WHEN charges are brought against them, the nature of the relationship between the accused and victim must factor into the sentencing or outcome.

Last edited by iona6656; 05-16-2019 at 03:31 PM.
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