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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 03-21-2019, 12:23 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Default If you haven't spent enough money on your divorce- why not try co-parent counselling!

Session #4

We do not have the OCL report in hand. Why? I don't know. Disclosure was 5 weeks ago.

Although we were in the same disclosure meeting- we both heard vastly different things.

According to ex- 90% of the report was favourable to him, he was making great strides. But there seemed to be this minor issue of him not addressing the death threat against both his daughter and his wife in therapy. But don't worry guys- it was all a big misunderstanding. And his therapist said the OCL only had a 10 minute discussion with her. So if that's what she's basing her recommendation on- well that shows some deficiencies.

I heard that he hasn't grasped the gravity of what happened on separation and there needs to be further work to address it. That while the supervision issue is interim- this is not a case where joint custody is appropriate because of the level of conflict in the past.

At least three times during the session he referenced wanting to determine if there were any other 'deficiencies' in the report. ...so anyways- I have my answer on whether he's going to challenge the report.

What was interesting is that he kept asking me what I need to see to prove that he's safe around our daughter. I told him- repeatedly- I'm not driving this bus- I haven't asked for any of these things- this is what the OCL recommended. I will send him an offer- and path for us to move forward that has off ramps where we can check in to see if this is the best thing for our daughter.

My sister said something really interesting to me the other day - she said, "There's only two ways really that (ex) is going to go- either he's going to step up and get better, or he's going to get worse". If things get better- then of course I'm open to re-evaluate custody and access as our daughter gets older. But I'm so wary of this. I just feel like if I'm building all these off-ramps (e.g. clauses where age is a trigger v. material change)- I'm asking to continue a never ending legal battle.


What a colossal waste of money and time.


The only thing that was maybe worth it is that he brought up the car situation- where he kept coming up to my car and opening the door when I was dropping our daughter off. Or standing really near me. He told the therapist- "I'm just excited to see D2....blah blah blah... I just want to know why this makes her uncomfortable?"

I had a small fist pump moment when our therapist told him that "She doesn't need to tell you why it makes her uncomfortable. You two are no longer married and she doesn't need to justify her feelings to you."
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  #2  
Old 03-21-2019, 01:16 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
I had a small fist pump moment when our therapist told him that "She doesn't need to tell you why it makes her uncomfortable. You two are no longer married and she doesn't need to justify her feelings to you."

Your ex has no respect for boundaries. You almost need to say to him “if I or someone in my family had threatened to kill YOUR daughter, would you not have an issue with planning?”

Having those off ramps makes you look solution focused and reasonable. Whether or not you need them is moot. The stops are for evaluation of where you are at. If he disagrees in the future, he can take it forward and demonstrate how he is ok. Again, he’s driving the bus.

This is frustrating for sure but its good that the therapist validated your feelings and your boundaries to him.
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Old 03-25-2019, 07:44 AM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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You don't have OCL report because they are hoping the matter will settle. Handing over a report generally causes everyone to fight about the content of the report... rather than focusing on the recommendations.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:04 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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So my OCL disclosure is coming up soon. If they generally don’t give you a report how do you remember all the details of what is said in this meeting? Take frantic notes? Record on iPhone ?? .


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Old 03-25-2019, 09:18 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
So my OCL disclosure is coming up soon. If they generally don’t give you a report how do you remember all the details of what is said in this meeting? Take frantic notes? Record on iPhone ?? .


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Yes- I took notes. I'm not sure you can record it. I never asked- and neither counsel suggested it or requested.

When I took notes I focused on 1) who were the collaterals they spoke with (e.g. which doctors) 2) I noted if she said anything positive/balanced about either of us (if it's 100% negative about one party- it'll probably be easier to challenge I figured) 3) the recommendations - but also the child(ren)-centric reasoning for recommendations (e.g. child's young age, ability to handle allergies)- I didn't bother furiously writing down all her observations and conclusions about the other party. 4) I did write down her reocmmendations for the other party moving forward.

5)- write down your questions as they occur. I wouldn't suggest interrupting. We had a minute to speak with our lawyers and then come back to the room- where I asked my questions and my lawyer had some of his own.
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Old 03-25-2019, 09:21 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
You don't have OCL report because they are hoping the matter will settle. Handing over a report generally causes everyone to fight about the content of the report... rather than focusing on the recommendations.
Probably. My ex was already using some pretty obvious lawyer-driven language during the co-parent counselling session which means his-oh-so-efficient legal counsel has probably already told him to fight the recommendations. Luckily the co-parent counsellor told us that we should pay attention to the recommendations and determine if fighting them would be in *eta: the child's* interest. She was really directing that to him. I've told him- and I told her- I'm not taking these recommendations and running. I could, but I'm not going to because I don't think that's in our kids best interest.

That and she said her supervisor was on vacation. Sooo...

They faxed it to the lawyers last Thursday- but somehow only 1 page transmitted...because you know, faxing.

I'm sure I'll get the full report today.

Last edited by mcdreamy; 03-26-2019 at 12:35 PM. Reason: eta: remove a name
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Old 03-26-2019, 08:12 AM
standing on the sidelines standing on the sidelines is offline
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maybe mods can remove the childs name?????
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Old 03-26-2019, 10:05 AM
OrleansLawyer OrleansLawyer is offline
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Quote:
We do not have the OCL report in hand. Why? I don't know. Disclosure was 5 weeks ago.
Generally, the OCL worker or lawyer will wait to the end of the 60 day deadline in the hope that people will settle.
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Old 03-26-2019, 02:45 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Generally, the OCL worker or lawyer will wait to the end of the 60 day deadline in the hope that people will settle.
Jokes on them!

(and us. obviously).


We received the report yesterday. It's bad for ex...but it's not particularly great for me either.

She didn't say anything bad about me- but she made it seem like I'm *SUPER EXCITED* to try to co-parent with my ex. But I'm also understandably afraid of him. Well, which is it? That is probably partly my fault. I think in trying to sell that I'm prepared to support the relationship between our daughter and her dad- I oversold it. The assessor wrote that "Mom is clear that she wants to parent D2 with Dad....and wishes an amicable co-parent relationship". I never said I want to co-parent. I said I'd do what it takes to involve both parents meaningfully in D2's life, but I also said I don't think joint would work in our situation.

The assessor made it seem like the ONLY issue at play here is that dad has not internalized and appreciated how serious what he did was. But she she did write a pretty damning closing discussion. To sort of paraphrase it- the assessor said:

Dad's initial inability to remember making the threats (he said at first that he didn't remember, or didn't make those specific threats. He had to change that once he took a guilty plea deal), followed by his assertion that he made the threats to make Mom angrier than he was is highly concerning and does not demonstrate the expected remorse and insight into this situation...

She goes on to say a child entering the toddler development phase can often provoke feelings of frustration and anger in a parent, and the Ex has not provided the assessor with evidence that he has the capacity to manage that frustration in a way that ensures the safety of D2, especially given his admitted violent words and actions throughout the course of the marriage aimed at both the mother and the child. [side note- apparently* he told her that he only became physical with me when I was pregnant because I provoked him by being disrespectful to him in front of his family- she QUOTED him].

* i say "apparently" because for SURE he's going to say that she misunderstood or misquoted him when he challenges this report. but also- I'm really starting to wonder how stupid my ex really is. There are multiple times in the Report where she reports him saying that the marital discord was party my fault because I was not doing what I said I would-- which was send him enough money to save and I wouldn't lose weight. She put it in a couple of places. I think she thought they were pretty stupid reasons, but she wasn't about to write that into the Report.

Rec is sole custody to mom, primary residence to mom.
Dad to re-engage in individual therapy and any change to access (meaning removing supervision) is to be informed by dad's work with therapist, the therapist's view on how he handles his anger and his anger management skills as well some evident insight into the impact of his behaviour- as there are "serious concerns about his reactions and impulse control to the testing that might occur with a 2 or 3 year old child".

the really shitty part? There's no finality to this. This makes you think that we should reassess after he's done some more therapy work. However long that takes.

*bangs head on desk*
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