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Political Issues This forum is for discussing the political aspects of divorce: reform to divorce laws, men's rights, women's rights, injustices in the divorce system, etc.

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  #51  
Old 08-07-2016, 08:48 PM
Soiled Soiled is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Mom View Post
You tremendously overthink accountability. It isn't dollars and cents, it's a true understanding that you did this to yourself. Accountability for the crap-ass position you have found yourself in, which has spousal support as a consequence. Spousal support didn't ruin your marriage, that comes afterwards.

That, no matter how much you bitch and gripe, is not the responsibility of spousal support guidelines or the law.

If independence in a woman is what you expect then you don't marry and continue to support dependence, as an example.

It's accountability for the decision to marry that particular person who is causing this particular problem that one must hold themselves accountable for. If you don't admit you made a poor choice in a partner, you're doing it again and again and again.

You've made a few incorrect assumptions about me and use them as a launching point...

I'm am not a spousal support payor. My ex and I had a a similar enough income that the child support calculation for 50/50 with two children was $1/mth to her. Though I did learn all about it when the split happened as she decided her best course of action was to move clear across the country to where her family is from. Jobs are few and far between there and her plan, as laid out in the papers she served me, was to live off of whatever govt assistance she could get, as well as child support and spousal support. Seems unlikely to succeed, but my lawyer warned me he had seen similar successful scenarios like that in the past, all depends on the judge.

I had enjoyed this, but as apparently I'm being interpreted as bitching and griping, I'm finished with it. I can have an exchange with the ex if I wanted to receive that sort of response.

I'll leave this with a final comparison....

Prenups, divorce agreements and such can all be disputed on the grounds of not understanding it, or not having independent legal advice. Spousal support treats marriage as a contract between two people. It has serious repercussions for the cessation of that contract. Why then is it not necessary to have independent legal advice prior to getting married?

There's a large difference between personal/spiritual accountability and legal accountability.

Last edited by Soiled; 08-07-2016 at 08:58 PM. Reason: Corrected broke and incomplete sentences
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  #52  
Old 08-07-2016, 09:14 PM
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arabian arabian is offline
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Links your statement that "SAHM contribute very little to the career the man has" is merely your personal opinion based on your own perceived situation and nothing more. I could draw you many examples but you would still hold your own biased opinion. Your statement reminds me of a woman I once knew who was quite wealthy and married a fellow who wasn't wealthy. Her husband was given a titled job (VP of something) in the family business. He did nothing besides golf... seriously. He was a SAHD and made supper and oversaw the housekeeper. These two ended up settling out of court. Yes he was compensated handsomely. He will likely receive CS and SS for a very long time. This is not a situation unique to just the male paying the female.

This forum would be pretty boring if we all agreed on everything.
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  #53  
Old 08-07-2016, 09:46 PM
MS Mom MS Mom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soiled View Post
You've made a few incorrect assumptions about me and use them as a launching point...

I'm am not a spousal support payor. My ex and I had a a similar enough income that the child support calculation for 50/50 with two children was $1/mth to her. Though I did learn all about it when the split happened as she decided her best course of action was to move clear across the country to where her family is from. Jobs are few and far between there and her plan, as laid out in the papers she served me, was to live off of whatever govt assistance she could get, as well as child support and spousal support. Seems unlikely to succeed, but my lawyer warned me he had seen similar successful scenarios like that in the past, all depends on the judge.

I had enjoyed this, but as apparently I'm being interpreted as bitching and griping, I'm finished with it. I can have an exchange with the ex if I wanted to receive that sort of response.

I'll leave this with a final comparison....

Prenups, divorce agreements and such can all be disputed on the grounds of not understanding it, or not having independent legal advice. Spousal support treats marriage as a contract between two people. It has serious repercussions for the cessation of that contract. Why then is it not necessary to have independent legal advice prior to getting married?

There's a large difference between personal/spiritual accountability and legal accountability.
I make no assumptions about you at all.

I am merely stating that spousal support is a consequence of divorce. Divorce is a potential consequence of marriage. The mistake that was made was in the marriage, everything else follows that error.

What I read from those that gripe about spousal support is that the ex is lazy, refuse to work, likes to sit at home and eat bon-bons. The ex is the same person you married. And it seems that having a stay at home trophy is exactly what the man wants, until he doesn't. Then she's lazy for being all those things that were okay when the married.

If you marry a financially independent woman you won't be paying spousal support if you divorce. But, you'll also wash your own floors when you're married.
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  #54  
Old 08-08-2016, 09:41 PM
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Rioe Rioe is offline
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So long as the woman provides sex and housekeeping in exchange for financial support and not having to work, the situation is fine. When the sex and housekeeping stop, the financial support should also stop and the working should start. Is that what you are saying?
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  #55  
Old 08-10-2016, 01:29 PM
FightingForFamily FightingForFamily is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MS Mom View Post
If you marry a financially independent woman you won't be paying spousal support if you divorce. But, you'll also wash your own floors when you're married.
I married someone with two university degrees who was working for the school board and on her way to a great career as a teacher. Her salary was the same as mine or higher... until shortly before she decided to divorce.

Then she stopped had working and has never returned to the workforce in all these years.

You can marry a smart, savvy successful "financially independent woman" as still end up being a sucker and paying for her bons bons. The system is just that rigged.
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  #56  
Old 08-10-2016, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by FightingForFamily View Post
I married someone with two university degrees who was working for the school board and on her way to a great career as a teacher. Her salary was the same as mine or higher... until shortly before she decided to divorce.

Then she stopped had working and has never returned to the workforce in all these years.

You can marry a smart, savvy successful "financially independent woman" as still end up being a sucker and paying for her bons bons. The system is just that rigged.
I thought your ex was unemployed for many years prior to your separation and that you agreed to pay SS until child(ren) were in school. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your old posts from 2012/2013?
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  #57  
Old 08-10-2016, 02:13 PM
PeacefulMoments PeacefulMoments is offline
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I believe it would work both ways. My husband spent most of his salary foolishly over the years regardless of who earned more(it varied throughout the years) leaving me to bear the majority of the financial responsibility.

By staying married, tolerating it and not divorcing him, I basically gave my consent in a manner of speaking to his behavior. Now that he is so ill he can no longer work, if I were to divorce him now ( I wouldn't, just being hypothetical), he would certainly be able to take me to the cleaners for spousal support whether or not I thought it was fair and regardless of his being a male and me being female.
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  #58  
Old 08-10-2016, 04:25 PM
MS Mom MS Mom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingForFamily View Post
I married someone with two university degrees who was working for the school board and on her way to a great career as a teacher. Her salary was the same as mine or higher... until shortly before she decided to divorce.

Then she stopped had working and has never returned to the workforce in all these years.

You can marry a smart, savvy successful "financially independent woman" as still end up being a sucker and paying for her bons bons. The system is just that rigged.
You pay spousal support? Or are you considering child support to be "life long support" to the mom like Links does?
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  #59  
Old 08-11-2016, 11:30 AM
FightingForFamily FightingForFamily is offline
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Arabian: My former spouse was out of the workforce for only 2 years total, for maternity leave and stress leave. I paid full SS and CS for half the length of the marriage, which corresponded with school starting. It's done now. She planned the divorce for about a year and then stole everything from the bank, changed the locks and tried to have me arrested as a sexual predator. She also ended up keeping everything she stole, ending up with more than 70% of the assets while I became essentially homeless, renting furnished rooms in basements for a few months at a time, sleeping on couches or in later years staying with my girlfriend while paying out most of my salary to my ex. I borrowed vehicles from family to see my son since she refused to drive him. For awhile I had supervised visits in McDonalds.

The good news is my SS has been done for a few years and while I will never be able to afford a house or retire, I have a normal standard of living again. I rent a townhouse, a own car and I still have access to my son in spite of her efforts.

Personally I think CS table amounts are much too high. My ex collects close to 50% of her income from CS and child benefits. To me this just illustrates that CS is almost entirely being paid for her benefit, not his. She remains single but has a single family home and a new car. She doesn't work outside the home because she doesn't have to or want to. Her custody of our child and access to my paycheque keeps her confortable enough.

She was a self proclaimed feminist, determined to be a strong, independent career oriented woman. But two university degrees later (paid for 100% by her parents), she walked away from her pension, benefits and a great salary from the school board to remain a permanent SAHM (paid for 50% by me, some by her parents).

Just re-affirming what I said. You can marry a woman with good prospects and earning potential and still end up a chump due to how the system works.
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  #60  
Old 08-11-2016, 02:08 PM
stripes stripes is offline
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A few years ago I bought a new condo. Last month we learned that there would be a special assessment because of flaws in the original building. I am going to have to put out a lot of money that I didn't expect to have to put out. I am not happy about this.

However, I do not think that I was screwed over by the provincial Condominium Act or that "the system" is out to get condo owners and it's not faaaaair. I recognize that decisions (e.g. to buy a condo) involve risks (e.g. that there might be something wrong with the building that isn't immediately visible) and sometimes the risks don't go my way (e.g. there really was something wrong with the building).

Marriage works the same way: getting married entails the risk of divorce, getting divorced entails the risk of financial problems. Just because you weren't thinking about those risks at the time you got married or at the time you agreed that your ex would stay out of the workforce doesn't mean those risks weren't there for anyone to see.

Or closer to home: my ex had/has some extremely expensive and unhealthy habits. During the marriage, I subsidized those habits because a greater proportion of my salary went to pay the mortgage, bills, etc, leaving him to spend much of his salary on his own consumption. At the time of separation, I didn't get an extra chunk of equalization in recognition of my higher contribution to accumulating the household wealth, because marriage is regarded as a financial partnership. Looking at it from the purely financial angle, I made a mistake marrying someone who wasn't economically responsible and I paid for it. But that was my mistake, not "the system".
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