Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Financial Issues

Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #41  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:08 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,184
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tayken View Post
Related decisions

Supreme Court of Canada - Applications for Leave

Lucien Roger Khodeir v. Nora Jane Premi, 2011 CanLII 14362 (SCC) - 2011-03-17

Court of Appeal for Ontario

Premi v. Khodeir, 2010 ONCA 721 (CanLII) - 2010-10-28
Superior Court of Justice
Premi v. Khodeir, 2010 CanLII 3109 (ON SC) - 2010-01-22
Premi v. Khodeir, 2009 CanLII 42307 (ON SC) - 2009-07-14
The above cases found that the child support tables were constitutional, not that they were fair.

Also, CS was not reduced in the above case... as usual it was found that there was no undue hardship.

Last edited by Janus; 11-22-2012 at 12:11 PM. Reason: added second sentence
  #42  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:18 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,021
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_snoopin View Post
Tayken - I will answer. No criminal charges were laid because he didn't physcially hit me. He broke doors, mirrors, verbal abuse, harassment and stole my car from the garage - police called it matrimonial property.
Criminal Code of Canada:

1. Destruction of property is a criminal offence.
2. Theft of a vehicle is a criminal offence.
3. Psychological abuse is a criminal offence.

Furthermore, to point #1 and #2 evidence to the fact of what you are claiming is quite easy to present to "peace officers" and for a charge to be laid and for the Crown to proceed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_snoopin View Post
He's at the matrimonial home because he claimed that he was supporting our 26 year old married son (no disabilities, son is working full time but in constant debt).
Has an order been made for exclusive possession based on the "fact" you cite here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_snoopin View Post
He had harassed me so much (taken door knobs off, destroyed property, left nails at the wheels of my car, scratched my rental, etc... much more) that I didn't fight him on the big house.
Again, simply install survalence cameras or park your car in an area that has them. Furthermore, the destruction of property is a criminal offence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_snoopin View Post
Because of my income and the fact that I'm part owner of property, I don't qualify for legal aid. I have spoken to Duty councel several times and was told that I was doing everything right.
I can't buy the excuse on Legal Aid because you own a home. They place leans on the house and are the only organization I know that is allowed to do this without the consent of the other owner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_snoopin View Post
The judge made the order for him to stay away from me.
Was it a restraining order under the Family Law Rules or a non-harassment clause in an endorsement?\

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_snoopin View Post
Is my understanding of the Family Law totally wrong?
Possibly, this is why you should retain legal counsel to assist you. I would recommend you re-file your application for a Legal Aid Ontario certificate and provide the title to the home and request that they place a lean and for the proceeds be used to pay the lean on equalization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_snoopin View Post
When two people divorce all assets and properties are divided in half no?
When two people separate the marital assets should be equally divided (equalized). To get an order for divorce both parties will have to provide evidence that there are no outstanding issues regarding equalization.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_snoopin View Post
So why do we have to fight for this when the law is in place already? Why is the law not implemented. You commit a crime and it's proven, you are punished.
The law is there to assist you in settlement. Should you not be able to settle or one (or both parties) are being unreasonable then you can bring forward an Application to the public court system and request that a judge apply the Law as set forth in the FLR, FLA, Divorce Act, CLRA, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_snoopin View Post
I don't understand what I need to do to get a judge to make an order for the law to be implemented? How do I need to phrase it in a court document that I want what I'm entitled to by law?
You don't "get a judge to make an order". That is the first potential flaw in your thinking. You make an Application to court for equalization and provide the cogent and relevant evidence in support of your argument and the law.

Then a judge reviews the evidence on the "balance of probabilities" and issues an order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sa_snoopin View Post
No, I'm not using his infidelity as proof of anything. I know that much about this 'no fault' divorce.
Then, you need to get it out of your head as it will only cloud the factual evidence you need to present to complete equalization and demonstrate entitlement (if entitled as determined by a judge on the evaluation of evidence on the balance of probabilities) to SS.

Good Luck!
Tayken
  #43  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:20 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,021
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Janus View Post
The above cases found that the child support tables were constitutional, not that they were fair.

Also, CS was not reduced in the above case... as usual it was found that there was no undue hardship.
Please see posting for which you may have missed which is in this thread:

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...tml#post116608
  #44  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:21 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,021
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SadAndTired View Post
What I don't understand (for Tayken and others) is how to reduce it if it is your ex causing the conflict. Yes, I agree, conflict = costs.
You don't. Child support is THE RIGHT OF THE CHILD receiving the support. It doesn't equate the stupidity of parents. That is why you can't agree away NOT paying CHILD SUPPORT.
  #45  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:27 PM
Pursuinghappiness Pursuinghappiness is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,819
Pursuinghappiness will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:

I had to borrow/rent), he emptied the bank account and it's been a year and no resolve.

Is my understanding of the Family Law totally wrong? When two people divorce all assets and properties are divided in half no? So why do we have to fight for this when the law is in place already? Why is the law not implemented. You commit a crime and it's proven, you are punished.

I don't understand what I need to do to get a judge to make an order for the law to be implemented? How do I need to phrase it in a court document that I want what I'm entitled to by law?
Sa:

Your understanding of the family law rule for equalization isn't wrong....however I think your understanding of how long the process takes is.

If you're only a year into the court process....and you're having a high-conflict divorce...equalization may take some time yet. Personally speaking, I'm 3 years in and am still working through the process of getting my ex to disclose.

I think divorcing spouses have an obligation to provide for themselves...divorce means change. My biggest pet peeve is the people on here who sit around not working expecting an ex-husband or ex-wife to provide them a lifestyle that they were accustomed to in marriage. And I'm not accusing you of any such thing...I'm just speaking in generalities.

There's a number of people on this forum that sit around whining here about being broke and don't work. It kinda drives me nuts. Reality check: Divorce doesn't work like that. You have an obligation to take care of yourself and not leech off an ex.

For all the people on this thread who are complaining about ex's that have gotten away with not working by pretending to be sick...or saying that they can't find work...you have my deepest sympathies. I think its a pile of crap that judges don't throw the book at lazy leeches like that. There is zero excuse not to be able to provide for yourself in some way unless you're in a coma.

My ex has a bigger house..more lavish lifestyle than I do...I honestly couldn't care less. It generally true that one spouse will have more money..its not a big deal. Eventually, I will be successful in the court process and I will have my half of the assets we acquired during marriage...until that time, I work hard and take care of my own financial responsibilities.

Its normal for the process to take time..its complicated to separate a long list of assets acquired during a lengthy marriage. Financial disclosure is a long process...so is the splitting of all the assets. I'm not sure what the multitude of lawyers you had worked on...but if they didn't even manage to help you make an arrangement on the matrimonial home...it sounds like you got ripped off. That's generally one of the more straightforward parts of asset disposal.

My advice...try to reduce the conflict and concentrate on what's important...it helps with your legal bills. Hang in there....get a job...perhaps arrange some bridge financing to help out. My ex's bills are probably more than double what mine are because I instructed my lawyer from the beginning to ignore anything that's irrelevant and he spends all his time worrying about my personal life. I'm wondering how you ended up with legal representation that didn't seem to accomplish any goals.

Anyway, best wishes and hang in there. This process is just very slow-moving. I too, wish it was faster.
  #46  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:33 PM
sa_snoopin sa_snoopin is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 20
sa_snoopin is on a distinguished road
Default

If the abuse is a criminal offense, then why didn't the police lay charges? Why did they just tell him to leave the house for the night instead? As for the car, the officer told me that it's matrimonial property and he can take it without my consent. I've written to the ombudsmen at the police dept with no response. This was back in May of this year. The police mess up but they're protected.

The order was a non-harassment clause in an endorsement. The judge sited that a restraining order goes on your permenant record and therefore he didn't think it needed to be made. He actually said this in court!

As for legal aid - as the judge cited this in various words in court - if my ex doesn't get a lawyer to resolve this, it's not fair for me to have to pay (whether now or later with the leins on the property). The duty councel at Durham court told me that the payment from the lein would be made from my share of the settlement so I still end up paying.

At the end of the day, a lawyer can't force this monster to divide anything! Only the judge can. The problem is that judges are helping lawyers get rich so they require a certain 'language be used in court documents'. Once a case is at court, lawyers want a $10,000 retainer upfront.

"bring forward an Application to the public court system and request that a judge apply the Law as set forth in the FLR, FLA, Divorce Act, CLRA, etc..."
What is this and where can I get more information on this?

Even the judge told that monster that he's obligated to pay me SS. Why do we need to go through all this... I'm not the unreasonable one - I want out of this marriage and my share. He got to the bank accounts and emptied them out as soon as I confronted him about his affair and said I wanted out. That was a year ago and he's managed to still hold everything.

I had (and paid a lot for) 3 different lawyers and consulted 2 others. None of them could help me obviously - since I'm still in this position. So what can a lawyer really do when the other party is uncooperative? If the police and all those lawyers couldn't do anything, really what chance do I have?
  #47  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:36 PM
murphyslaw murphyslaw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: 2 miles south, of the middle of nowhere
Posts: 500
murphyslaw is on a distinguished road
Default

While I agree that it is the right of the child to receive CS I do think that there should be room to drop it in high conflict cases.Where one has an abusive spouse with a history of abusing the children ,the onus on child support only causes more suffering for the ex partner and children.
  #48  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:43 PM
Tayken's Avatar
Tayken Tayken is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 7,021
Tayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant futureTayken has a brilliant future
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FightingForFamily View Post
I snorted when Tayken said the guidelines don't leave people destitute.

Sorry but I don't believe earning $61k per year and being told to live on $1400 is a good system when non-working partner has $2800/month coming in, tax free, sans employment.
Then file a claim against s.10 and file a report that demonstrates an imbalance in the household standards of living.
  #49  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:46 PM
sa_snoopin sa_snoopin is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 20
sa_snoopin is on a distinguished road
Default

Pursuinghappiness;116635]
I've been working throughout my 30 year marriage and still am. That monster does have the better end of the stick despite everything... but I'm looking forward to God's justice and that's what keeps me sane most of the time.
I want my divorce so I never have to have any contact with that creature again an the only way to get this is if the assets are settled.

My problem with Family Court is that the process doesn't need to take this long - it's purposely manipulated to take this long! Have you ever watched those court employees - At Durham court when you go to file papers, the clerks sit there literally staring into blank space and purposely not calling the next person. I've seen a guy finish with one person, sit there just looked at his hands for a full 15 minutes and then closing his window to go on a 20 minute break.

All the paper work we are required to fill out is not even read by the judge. They made you go through paperwork hell just to make it difficult for you. So the party that does nothing - like my ex - really is better off.
This last time he didn't even do any paperwork, said nothing in court despite the judge badgering into him. He just stood there quietly. Still the judge just put it off for yet another conference.

Sorry.... but I'm truly frustrated with the Durham Family Courts and I have no choice but to go there because that's where I live. I don't know if other courts are better.

I want to know if we can actually make a complaint about a judge? I've written to the Attorney General several times and the response is always the same - 'get a lawyer'.
  #50  
Old 11-22-2012, 12:51 PM
HammerDad HammerDad is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,920
HammerDad will become famous soon enough
Default

It isn't a crime to damage ones own property. If I am in an argument with my wife, and go into the next room and punch a hole in the wall in the house I own, it isn't a criminal offense or any sort of abuse. The police cannot do anything about it.

If one is damaging the house and causing it to be devalued, one could argue when it comes time for equalization that they should not be adversely affected by the other parties actions and damages to the property and thus should get reimbursed at fair market value of the house as it would be if undamaged.
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Dealing with Stress Jeff Divorce Support 8 11-05-2014 12:04 PM
How did/do you survive financially? hubby Financial Issues 32 10-29-2013 01:01 AM
Is it hopeless? First case conference gone wrong....any advice is appreciated exceptiontotherules Divorce & Family Law 22 12-01-2012 05:32 PM
How to financially separate scoobydoo Financial Issues 0 02-18-2010 09:20 PM
What if they never financially disclose or get a lawyer? Insights Divorce Support 6 03-18-2006 02:02 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:35 PM.