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  • babysitting...lies...

    I've ranted a lot in here over my babysitting/section 7 expenses.

    We have 2 children and ex currently takes them to a lady's house to be babysat while she works. (I believe non-licensed)

    Our original separation agreement in 2008 stated that there were no section 7 expenses, if such were to occur, such as child care, ex was to notify me of the expense, provide me with receipt of proof and then I was to reimburse her my share within 20 days of being provided the receipt.

    Ex asked me to start paying babysitting expenses in June 2011. I told her "No, problem, give me the receipts so I can start paying" Ex refused to give any receipts. After a while of me asking for the receipts, in mid July 2011 ex provided me with a lined piece of paper, where she had wrote in pen all the months/weeks from January 2011 to June 2011 with dollar amounts beside them that she was claiming she paid in babysitting/expected me to pay for.
    Well clearly this was not a legitimate receipt....So I ignored it. (I believe there is something fishy going on with the babysitting...she either isn't paying the sitter as much as she claims.....or babysitter is not claiming it on her taxes...since she could not provide any receipts to ex. BUT Ex is claiming it on her taxes/receiving the benefits of doing so!)

    So ex got lawyer in October 2011, her lawyer sent me a letter, stating that ex did not need receipts for the babysitting. Her lawyer wanted me to send her my T4 and income tax statements so that she could calculate everything up. Ex was going for increase in child support now too and contribution for children's activities. Her lawyer stated that ex did not need receipts for anything! I was just expected to pay whatever number she told me.

    I got a lawyer after that. In February 2012, we settled out of court. Lawyers made amendment/it was discussed at meeting that ex was to provide me with a receipt for child care expenses on a monthly basis/ proving she was paying someone, stating the total amount she paid them. After being advised of this amount, I then was to calculate my share and reimburse ex my share within 20 days.

    Well ex never followed amendment/ never provided me with any receipts. Instead ex was sending me a monthly e-mail where she would just type out the weeks and amount for each month. I notified my lawyer of this and lawyer advised me just to pay because she didn't want me to end up having a large bill to pay if ex came up with the receipts at the end of the year.

    Everyone on here was telling me to STOP paying ex until she could provide receipts/let it go to court.

    I followed my lawyer's advice though and continued to pay without seeing any legitimate proof of receipt. I paid ex based on whatever amount she listed in the e-mail.

    So here we are February 2013 now. Ex provided no receipts for 2012. I told her that until she could provide the 12 monthly receipts for 2012 and start providing me with a monthly receipt for 2013, I would not be paying her anymore babysitting expenses.

    Last night Ex finally e-mailed me 12 monthly receipts for 2012----BUT ONLY ONE MATCHES UP to the e-mailed amount she told me/ proportional share cheque amount I gave her.

    Half of the receipts list a higher monthly amount on the receipt in comparison to the e-mail amount she sent me---what I paid her for proportional share. And a few of the receipts list a lower amount, her e-mail stated a higher amount, in which I paid her.

    What would you do in this situation????

  • #2
    Chalk it up as a lesson learned and start doing the things we told you to do last time.

    Comment


    • #3
      There are different ways of approaching this. If I were you, I would NOT pay a cent until proper receipts are provided. Period. Based on what you've been paying for childcare in the past couple of years, I would average out a rough monthly amount, and make a point of setting this amount aside every month, just in case, like your lawyer commented, the ex produced a whole bunch of legitimate receipts all at one go - if that's the case then the funds have already been set aside to be paid out. If no receipts continue to be provided, then no payments, and you have some extra funds stashed away for emergencies.

      As you have discovered, any agreed upon terms are only as good as whether they are enforced/upheld. Start "enforcing" the terms agreed to by insisting that you both abide by them and stop letting her get away with not providing you with proper, timely information that you are entitled to.

      Comment


      • #4
        I had this situation with my D4, back when she was very young. Mom chose a sitter at her own discretion - she didn't involve me at all, and the decision was made before she even told me. The babysitter would not "deal" with me, at Mom's instruction. I could never find out costs.

        Anyway, Mom was screaming at me for babysitting costs, but the whole time, was not providing any receipts, or even any kind of schedule, so I knew if she was using the babysitting, for her brief "work period", or it was during her "social times".

        I advised her, unless I was provided receipts I would not be paying for such unaccounted for, costs. She kept screaming, but wouldn't provide receipts. I had my lawyer (at the time) advise her in writing as well.

        We *eventually* got a letter from her lawyer (at the time), advising us, that she would not be pursuing "babysitting costs" at this time.

        I never did pay.
        If someone is not willing to provide receipts (proper receipts), then they are hiding something.

        There is no reason, your ex can't provide you copies of the "receipts" from the babysitter, so you can verify the costs. If she doesn't do that, do not pay.

        Her "making" her own ledger, has no accountability. I would not pay it.

        Comment


        • #5
          Agree with others... my partner had this issue with his ex... her sister was babysitting the children, the same as she had been before they split... well all of the sudden her sister decided to start charging (or so she said)... she wanted my partner to just pay what she was saying... he refused until she provided a receipt... she never provided a receipt, just an excel table with amounts... once the lawyers got involved ex "decided" to let the babysitting costs go... mainly because the amounts for 7 months only worked out to $100 a month (the spreadsheet he received showed just over $700) and also because my partner requested that any benefits she receives for babysitting come off the top.

          Like was said above... NO receipts, NO payment... stick the money in a separate account and inform her that when you receive PROPER receipts you will gladly pay her.

          Comment


          • #6
            Just to add, and I'm fairly certain I have told you this before...

            You should have a rough idea as to the cost of childcare. BANK the approx. cost if you really want to be prepared. That way if the ex decides to slam you with 12 months of receipts, you can just cut a check

            SOME providers will only do one receipt/year, at tax time.

            Comment


            • #7
              So as stated Ex just sent me 12 photos of receipts she all of a sudden came up with for the 2012 year. 11 of them do not match the amounts she told me in e-mail. Remember she was e-mailing me amounts instead of providing me with receipts. Before she provided the receipts/when I was asking her for them...She was asking me how much I paid for her to write the receipts...of course I wouldn't give that information/wanted to be sure everything matched up if she did provide receipts....Now that she has and nothing matches up.

              Also people were telling me that her CCTB should also be deducted. We never deducted it. (My lawyer tells me that is not the case/that she can do whatever she wants with her CCTB....I'm getting told mixed answers regarding that on here/from my lawyer)

              If her CCTB is supposed to be deducted, that would mean that I wouldn't owe her a cent for babysitting...as when I calculated all the cheques I gave her and then deducted her CCTB from that amount....it ends up being a negative/where she would owe me money back?

              Comment


              • #8
                If not the CCTB, then it's the income tax reduction that should be taken into account when splitting DC amounts. For example, if she earns 20K, and pays 2K in daycare, then her taxable income is reduced by 2K, so her tax is reduced by her marginal rate on that 2K. If the marginal tax rate is 10-15%, then her taxes are reduced by $200-$300, so you would split the net amount of $1700-$1800. If her income is higher, her marginal rate will be higher, and there will be a greater tax reduction.

                The difficulty is that she won't get the tax break until next April, so it's hard to argue that your share should be reduced right now. Possibly that can be handled by you skipping a payment or 2 next spring after her taxes are done. Sorry - no experience with the real-life procedure on making this work.
                Last edited by dinkyface; 03-05-2013, 05:45 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  My 2 cents.....Dont do anything I suggest without first consulting 2 lawyers, 3 accountants and a mechanic...

                  What we are really talking about here is the underground economy, just switch roofer or contractor for day care provider. We want to pay less so there is small print attached.

                  No receipts(or incomplete) from home based daycare's is a real problem whether or not you were together or divorced

                  Many people run daycares on the side for income but do not declare it so it wont ruin their support/child support numbers with their own situations. As an official receipt from a home based daycare would need to have the persons SIN number on it.

                  No receipts is a common problem with lower cost baby sitting/home based. My 1st ex and I get along very well, she picked a lower cost baby sitter and we both pay our share. I could insist on receipts but than the cost would go up maybe 50% to double the costs/ we would have to switch to brick and mortar daycare, also the home daycare is close to the school and the person picks up/drops off with a vehicle, its a great deal for us all around.

                  CRA is fully aware of this underground economy and at present is not doing much about it, it serves the governments agenda of affordable day-care with little cost to the tax payer as a whole. We filed our costs with just handwritten receipts from the babysitter(no sin number). CRA may ask for official receipts and at that time you explain your case. Both my ex and I make the same money so we would both be hit equally if the claim was dis-alowed by CRA

                  I choose to pay with not very incomplete receipts as it is very affordable, vs official day care that costs a lot more.

                  I would be cautious as you might get what you want, receipts at twice the price.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I cant edit my post after 60 minutes so this is addition to my post.....

                    My 2 cents.....Dont do anything I suggest without first consulting 2 lawyers, 3 accountants and a mechanic..

                    By the tone of your post it appears as if she is with-holding something from you when in fact she might not be getting receipts at all from the babysitter and is in the same boat you are when it comes to tax time, this is the deal when you use low cost day/home day care and I would think judges would be up to speed on this, so act accordingly.

                    I asked our babysitter for her SIN number when we were doing our taxes that 1st year...she said no and it was take it or leave it....dont like that answer go somewhere else was her attitude....I sucked it up and paid and have my fingers crossed at tax time...but even if I didnt get my money back at tax time its still less then official day care and she provides drop off and pick up ....do your own numbers

                    If it comes out your ex is saving you money, let her know you appreciate her efforts to keep costs down for both of you. Costs nothing to be nice, so don't go cheap on it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      If the babysitter is not giving receipts its probably because she isn't decalring the income. My ex did babysit for a while, and she did provide receipts, but given the income ($125 a week, in the 90s), she didn't have to pay any taxes. She could do the receipts on a computer, or you can buy receipt books at Staples.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        My GF's ex refuses to pay his babysitter bills and every other bill he gets from her, no matter if there's a receipt or not. The loser is also quite comfortable getting his wages garnished because of his refusal to pay child maintenance.
                        We have quite the system here in Canada: take him to court, the judge/court orders him to pay, he refuses and then it's up to her to take him back to court and waste a bunch more money trying to get the court to enforce what they've already ordered.
                        But hey, watch him call the cops and then watch them call her 2 seconds later when she's five minutes late dropping their son off at his place after she's done work.
                        What a fucking joke.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Yeah, that doesn't add much to the topic on-hand, or the original poster's issue.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Motorhead168 View Post
                            My GF's ex refuses to pay his babysitter bills and every other bill he gets from her, no matter if there's a receipt or not. The loser is also quite comfortable getting his wages garnished because of his refusal to pay child maintenance.
                            We have quite the system here in Canada: take him to court, the judge/court orders him to pay, he refuses and then it's up to her to take him back to court and waste a bunch more money trying to get the court to enforce what they've already ordered.
                            But hey, watch him call the cops and then watch them call her 2 seconds later when she's five minutes late dropping their son off at his place after she's done work.
                            What a fucking joke.
                            First time you go to court, when you have your court order, it automatically goes to FRO unless you opt out of that by signing a form. It doesn't take multiple trips to court.

                            She can file a motion for expenses, set them at a constant level (supported by receipts) and it goes to FRO too. She should be filing to update the amount every year anyway. It is a simple one page form that doesn't really need a lawyer.

                            Comment

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