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  • #31
    Originally posted by keepmovingforward View Post
    Need some help here regarding sharing of expenses in a 50-50 arrangement...

    ...She says 50-50 and I pay her off the tables. Bear in mind, she makes 25% more than me !...

    ...If we don't get an agreement, case conference in January. Would a judge seriously tell me to pay HER ? Even at 50-50 ?
    She will say, whatever she wants to say. You should stick to *your* idea of 50/50 parenting/custody plan.

    If you both have shared custody (which is what 50/50 access is, actually 60/40 is the threshold), then you should pay each other offset child support. That would be a very reasonable offer to make her. Since she is the higher income earner, she would be paying you offset support (not table support) in this arrangement.

    The only way you would pay her child support, is if you make the mistake of agreeing to something less than shared custody (or having court decide that against you). That is likely not going to happen, if you stick to your guns (make sure your lawyer sticks to his guns for *you* too).

    If you both share custody, then you should likely split extra costs 50/50 as well, or proportionate to your incomes. That is also a very reasonable offer to make her.

    Comment


    • #32
      She's probably just dismayed at the thought that she has to give her ex any of what she considers her hard earned money, just because of the children's living arrangements.

      Try to reframe it as money meant to help equalize the lifestyles of the children across the households, instead of money meant for you and that might make it easier for her to swallow.

      Does she have any cause to believe that you are underemploying yourself, or not reporting your income accurately? That's another reason people are sometimes unhappy with the offset system; if they believe it is not under fair circumstances.

      You could even suggest a half offset system. Think of that as you putting in your table amount, and her putting in her table amount, and you each draw out half. The overall result is that she pays you half the difference between your table amounts. It is less money than the normal offset system, but fairer in my opinion. It might paint a better picture in her mind of how you are each providing for the children this way, not her providing to you.

      As for being stuck paying for clothes and haircuts, the big ticket items will be split via section 7 expenses. The small ticket items will generally spread themselves across households by default. You have bikes at your house, she has bikes at her house. The kids have clothes and toys at each house. Etc. If she wants to buy expensive clothes and you shop at Value Village, she brings them to a salon and you bring them to First Choice, that's each of your personal decisions, and those bills aren't split.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by keepmovingforward View Post
        ...
        My lawyer suggested a joint bank account. She said no, that won't work. She is NOT exchanging receipts every month. It would be easier if I just gave her a cheque. WTF ?

        ...
        My ex didn't want to do a shared account either - because that would mean that we share expenses completely and she only wants me to chip in on the the things she buys while not chipping in on the things I buy (despite her having over 50% NDI after support payments, even though I make more than her).

        And even though we have 50/50 access one of her early lawyers (she's on her third), said that I should pay her a set amount of section 7 expenses every month - totally ignoring the fact that I pay for some if not most of them - complete nonsense.

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        • #34
          We have a case conference booked for January.
          She gave me an offer of EOW and I pay her support.
          I took her to court
          I presented a settlement offer of 50-50 time and we share all the kids expenses. She said sharing of expenses is too complicated, I should just pay her support even though she makes 25% more than me. After all, she said she is the woman.
          SO, she makes me an offer recently of 5/14 nights (36%, imagine that !) and I pay her less than table support.
          Question - is it possible to pay less than table ? I heard no. Then judge won't agree and she can go back at any time.
          Does the law agree with her that she is entitled to support even with a 6 figure income ?
          Where is her money to support the kids ?
          36% or 50% , my expenses at my house will be the same but she gets the welfare check from me at 36%.
          Will any of this come out in a case conference ?
          I'm suspecting not because her lawyer wouldn't put together this nonsense offer if it meant anything.
          Would a judge order 36% access and I pay her support ? Seems retarded to me. but then again this is the circus of family law.
          Do judges figure out that all she really wants is the MONEY ?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by keepmovingforward View Post
            We have a case conference booked for January.
            She gave me an offer of EOW and I pay her support.
            I took her to court
            I presented a settlement offer of 50-50 time and we share all the kids expenses. She said sharing of expenses is too complicated, I should just pay her support even though she makes 25% more than me. After all, she said she is the woman.
            Sharing of expenses is standard, regardless of gender.


            SO, she makes me an offer recently of 5/14 nights (36%, imagine that !) and I pay her less than table support.
            Question - is it possible to pay less than table ? I heard no. Then judge won't agree and she can go back at any time.
            The judge doesn't have to agree. In fact, if you two have already worked it out on your own, you don't even need a judge. Write up an agreement, secure ILA for each of you and be on your merry way.


            Does the law agree with her that she is entitled to support even with a 6 figure income ?
            CS is calculated on your income. Period. Hers is not taken into consideration - NOT because she is female, but because her is irrelevant if you are the payor.

            Your children are entitled to support, and YOU are obligated and responsible to support them, regardless of how much she makes.


            Where is her money to support the kids ?
            Do you honestly believe that all of the children's costs are covered by your share of child support? If that's the case, then you're obviously making a 6+ figure income as well, so not sure why you'd be complaining about having to support your kids.

            36% or 50% , my expenses at my house will be the same but she gets the welfare check from me at 36%.
            Then perhaps you should turn off the lights in the kids' rooms, stop running the shower for them and stop cooking for them while they are not there. I'd suggest then you would notice a difference.

            Will any of this come out in a case conference ?
            If the two of you go in with the ridiculous attitude you've shown here, it'll come out and the judge will not be pleased.


            I'm suspecting not because her lawyer wouldn't put together this nonsense offer if it meant anything.
            Do you have no concept of negotiating? You ask for more than what you want and negotiate down. She's made an offer you feel is nonsense. It's your job to counter offer. If you can't be bothered than accept the offer that's on the table and save the court's time and the tax payers' money.


            Would a judge order 36% access and I pay her support ? Seems retarded to me. but then again this is the circus of family law.
            Yes they would, especially if they have nothing else to work with. Like say.... a counter offer.

            Retarded? As in mentally handicapped? You're not 5 years old and are presumably capable of understanding the politically incorrect nature of your chosen insult.

            Maybe grow up a bit, work on your attitude and stop being so offensive. you'll get more help, more advice, a better understanding of how the system works and why - and potentially do better for your self and your kids.

            Do judges figure out that all she really wants is the MONEY ?
            If you're pushing for 50-50 and turn around and accept 36% with lower CS payments, it isn't going to be HER that looks like she's all about the money.

            If you want 50-50 because you want to be an equal parent, then stand your ground. If you just want it to reduce child support, do the kids a favour and leave them to the parent that actually wants them, and isn't solely focused on paying or getting out of paying his ex.

            There's a saying that goes "love your children more than you hate your ex."
            Last edited by blinkandimgone; 12-03-2013, 12:15 AM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Actually after reading that nonsense not sure how to reply.
              Guess I didn't explain.
              I have always been there for my boys. I want them more than 50%.
              Negotiate what ? Reduced time with my kids? I gave an offer to settle at 50-50.
              So I'm suppose to now split the difference ? Are you serious ?
              And my support payments would more than cover the costs btw. And I would have all the same costs in my house. Are you a newbie at this ?

              Comment


              • #37
                LOL.

                If you only have the kids 36% of the time, you do not have all the same costs as you have the kids less, therefore less expenses associated with having them there. See above for examples.

                She is offering reduced time with the kids. If you are not ok with that than make a counter offer. If you actually want 50-50 then stand your ground and show why it is in the kids' best interests to have 50-50. Reference case law to support your claim.

                As she makes more than you, at 50-50 she would pay you CS based on the offset calculations. Include that in your offer. Section 7 gets split proportionate to income. Include those calculations in your counter offer.

                It's simple math. Stop taking advice from her and her lawyer. Just because she says she should get paid because she is the mom/female/two headed dragon, doesn't make it so. If her lawyer is stupid enough to let her put that in her CC brief, then let them. They just look bad.

                You...just look bad with your attitude in general. You have this concept, for some reason, that because your ex makes more than you that you shouldn't have to pay CS. If that's the case, then how is it you're fulfilling your obligations as a parent? If you end up with 36% you're doing little parenting, and you also want not to pay CS.

                If you don't want to accept their offer, you're not obligated to. Either make a counter offer or proceed to CC, If the judge feels you're being unreasonable you'll have costs awarded against you. If the judge feels they're being unreasonable then you can ask to have costs awarded to you.

                Seriously, either decide if you actually want the 50-50 and push for it, and if not just accept the 36% and try for lower CS if you really think that's reasonable.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Pretend any poster who responds to your position with questions, counter arguments etc. is the Judge who hears your story.

                  He/she would likely take some satisfaction in sticking it to you if you asked the following.....

                  Originally posted by keepmovingforward View Post
                  Actually after reading that nonsense not sure how to reply.
                  Guess I didn't explain.
                  I have always been there for my boys. I want them more than 50%.
                  Negotiate what ? Reduced time with my kids? I gave an offer to settle at 50-50.
                  So I'm suppose to now split the difference ? Are you serious ?
                  And my support payments would more than cover the costs btw. And I would have all the same costs in my house. Are you a newbie at this ?

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by firhill View Post
                    Pretend any poster who responds to your position with questions, counter arguments etc. is the Judge who hears your story.

                    He/she would likely take some satisfaction in sticking it to you if you asked the following.....
                    Don't be silly, I'm just a newbie

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by keepmovingforward View Post
                      Need some help here regarding sharing of expenses in a 50-50 arrangement.

                      Apparently my stbx is not really worried about the % of time with the kids. 40, 45, 50%. What she's really worried about is the cheque.

                      She says 50-50 and I pay her off the tables. Bear in mind, she makes 25% more than me !

                      She's concerned that she will get stuck with paying for all the clothes and things for the kids. Even though we have generally split these things. Roughly, she buys the clothes, I buy the hockey equipment, and pay the fees.

                      She was even worried about haircuts.

                      My lawyer suggested a joint bank account. She said no, that won't work. She is NOT exchanging receipts every month. It would be easier if I just gave her a cheque. WTF ?

                      I said, Why are ENTITLED to a cheque ? So I pay for the kids at my house and yours ? And your 6 figure income pays for nothing ? WOW.

                      This is a woman with a masters that apparently can't exchange a few expenses....

                      What is everyone else's experience with splitting expenses ?

                      If we don't get an agreement, case conference in January. Would a judge seriously tell me to pay HER ? Even at 50-50 ?
                      Actually you are entitled to spousal for the wage difference. Go for a case conference just to see what is to happen and do not sine anything unless it is exactly what you need. If you are thrown out the home with a restraining order. Go back after its over, it is still your residence. I couldn't for fear of upsetting my kids further, but I wish I had as they will get over it. Just never badmouth the mom, I think that hurts the the most.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        First, I would lose the contemptuous attitude towards your ex, her lawyer and the posters here. Practise being respectful and keeping your cool no matter how outraged you may feel. It will hold you in good stead in court. A judge will expect to be treated with utmost respect, and one of the main things a judge looks for is your ability to get along with your ex for the sake of the children.

                        And yes, if you do your offers/rejections right, a judge will easily read between the lines and see that for your ex it is all about the money.

                        Stick to your desire for 50-50 parenting. The children deserve and flourish with equal time with each parent. She has to then present arguments against that. If those arguments involve money and greed, she'll look pretty bad to a judge. But only if your arguments do NOT involve money. So YOU stick to the point that equal custody and access is best for the children, and don't mention money except to say that you anticipate it will be handled the standard way.

                        Once you have the 50-50 fight won, child support and extraordinary expense sharing are calculated pretty much automatically based on each of your incomes. All you need to say about the money is that it will be done the standard offset method, and section 7 proportional to income, with an annual adjustment to both incomes based on updated tax information.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by keepmovingforward View Post
                          I gave an offer to settle at 50-50.
                          So I'm suppose to now split the difference ? Are you serious ?
                          You offered 50/50, they responded. Now you go back with another offer, with 50/50 but maybe with some of their other concepts. And you go back and forth from there, but be firm in your expectation of 50/50 parenting with the kids but that you are willing to negotiate about most anything else.

                          It is really that simple. It isn't an "I offer you, and then you counter and then we stop." Multiple offers can be made, but it doesn't mean that everything has to be on the table.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Franklin View Post
                            Actually you are entitled to spousal for the wage difference. Go for a case conference just to see what is to happen and do not sine anything unless it is exactly what you need. If you are thrown out the home with a restraining order. Go back after its over, it is still your residence. I couldn't for fear of upsetting my kids further, but I wish I had as they will get over it. Just never badmouth the mom, I think that hurts the the most.
                            He is not entitled to SS simply because there is a wage difference. He would have to show that his career was compromised due to the marriage, which it doesn't sound like it was.

                            He also claims between the two of them, a household income of $200k, claims she makes 6 figures but also states that the entirety of household expenses related to the children, could be covered by just his CS payments. Given that, I suspect there isn't much difference in their incomes.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Thanks Rioe. That's how I have been approaching this. Until she got scared, I have had the kids more than her the last 2-3 years. Now she's very involved and all over the kids. I still get them to school and pick them up 7 out of 10 times per week. So it's not like I'm "stepping up" to 50-50.

                              Blink - She makes 30% more than me. No, I am not claiming my career was compromised. I made the choice to not continue to get promotions because I wanted to spend more time with the kids.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                One more point, which I have told her. I don't care about receiving the offset support, I don't care about the S7 proportional (split it 50-50, not based on incomes), let's just split the time with the kids, split the expenses, and move on. Could care less if she makes 50% more than me in 2 years, just split the expenses and take care of the kids.

                                Comment

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