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  • spousal support - reasonable position

    I need some help determining a reasonable position on SS & CS
    Here is the Scenario

    Married for 3.5 years (42 months) (no prior relationship/cohabitation)
    1 child of marriage aged 4 (free child care by city)
    Wife worked abroad for about a year during marriage, prior to coming to Canada. did not work in Canada until separation.

    Separated Oct 2011, husband paying Spousal & CS, has current arrears of about 3k in total.

    Wife made multitude of false allegations causing repeated false arrests (eventually withdrawn by crown) of the husband which lead to an initial employer & doctor advised Short Term Disability leave, persistent poor performance at work due to stress & anxiety and eventual termination by the employer in early March 2013. there was a severance package of 5 months, the husband kept paying CS & SS via FRO until the package ran out in August 2013.


    Additional Factors:
    1- Husband worked at same job for 7 years and was trained in their niche applications developed in 1980s and needs significant retraining in order to be re-employable.

    2- Wife 28 years old, holds a master's degree & a diploma in early childhood education, 11 months after separation (Sept 2012) she found a contract position at minimum wage but quit her job with in a week of the husband's termination

    3- Next day from the husband's termination, wife calls his employer's receptionist "to make sure the husband was fired from job" the husband is informed by the receptionist and embarrassed.

    4- during July 2013 the husband was communicating with his ex-boss to see if they would rehire him. the wife shows up at the employer's office and demands to talk to husband's ex-boss, she then spreads false rumors that husband is a bad man & is suing her for two billion dollars (whaaat?) the ex-boss told the husband that he will still be bugged by ex-wife and hence no rehiring

    5- Husband may get EI before next court date.

    what is a reasonable position on CS & SS at a settlement conference coming up in September? the settlement confernce is 60 minutes long!
    Last edited by sahibjee; 08-22-2013, 03:41 PM.

  • #2
    Can you secure an affidavit from your ex-boss regarding the slander/harrassment by your ex? That's actually pretty serious especially if you can show damages (ie, lost wages) due to her slanderous conduct.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
      Can you secure an affidavit from your ex-boss regarding the slander/harrassment by your ex? That's actually pretty serious especially if you can show damages (ie, lost wages) due to her slanderous conduct.
      I thought about it, and as much as I am sure that my ex-boss may even be willing to do it, i am more than sure that ex will take that affidavit and go back to the office and try to create problems for my ex-boss or have him fired based on such affidavit.

      however i do have linked in message from one of the employees informing me that she came by and made allegations of being sued for 2billion. i wonder if i should attach that.

      Comment


      • #4
        First I would sue that person who brought me together with this wife.

        You should have gone to court immediately when your job was terminated as it is a material change and you should have asked to adjust CS/SS so you didn't get into arrears. Or you did but it took 6-7 month?

        I would ask SS from wife for the duration of the re-training based on the imputed income. You will need to pay CS, ask the judge to order you to pay based on the EI/or minimum wage until you get a job after the training.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
          however i do have linked in message from one of the employees informing me that she came by and made allegations of being sued for 2billion. i wonder if i should attach that.
          Is your ex-spouse MAITREYA’ ISIS MARYJANE BLACKSHEAR, THE DIVINE HOLY MOTHER OF ALL IN/OF CREATION’ AND ALL ISIS NATION ESTATES who tried to sue the government of Canada for "one hundred and eight quadrillion dollars"?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
            2- Wife 28 years old, holds a master's degree & a diploma in early childhood education, 11 months after separation (Sept 2012) she found a contract position at minimum wage but quit her job with in a week of the husband's termination
            Sorry to clarify but it speaks to her ability to work.

            Either there is education missing in your wife's summary or you are wrong. You do not go from a two year college diploma (ECE) to a master's in anything. Either she also has a university degree or does not have the masters. Are you saying she has a Master's in Early Childhood? From where?

            To work as an ECE in Ontario you must be registered with our College of ECEs. Making minimum wage to $12 an hour is not unreasonable.
            Last edited by SadAndTired; 08-22-2013, 04:31 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
              Is your ex-spouse MAITREYA’ ISIS MARYJANE BLACKSHEAR, THE DIVINE HOLY MOTHER OF ALL IN/OF CREATION’ AND ALL ISIS NATION ESTATES who tried to sue the government of Canada for "one hundred and eight quadrillion dollars"?
              How is this even useful? Waste of post space for someone needing advice.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                however i do have linked in message from one of the employees informing me that she came by and made allegations of being sued for 2billion. i wonder if i should attach that.
                I wonder if the email would be considered heresay unless they would be willing to testify on your behalf?

                Do you think the ex is mentally ill? Claiming one is being sued for 2 billion dollars is quite bizarre.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                  Is your ex-spouse MAITREYA’ ISIS MARYJANE BLACKSHEAR, THE DIVINE HOLY MOTHER OF ALL IN/OF CREATION’ AND ALL ISIS NATION ESTATES who tried to sue the government of Canada for "one hundred and eight quadrillion dollars"?
                  lol she surely thinks I am that person

                  Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
                  Sorry to clarify but it speaks to her ability to work.

                  Either there is education missing in your wife's summary or you are wrong. You do not go from a two year college diploma (ECE) to a master's in anything. Either she also has a university degree or does not have the masters. Are you saying she has a Master's in Early Childhood? From where?

                  To work as an ECE in Ontario you must be registered with our College of ECEs. Making minimum wage to $12 an hour is not unreasonable.
                  All her education is from abroad, Masters in an unrelated field and then the ECE diploma after masters, based on that diploma she "taught" in one of the prestigious institutions back there. i dropped her off several times.

                  Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
                  I wonder if the email would be considered heresay unless they would be willing to testify on your behalf?

                  Do you think the ex is mentally ill? Claiming one is being sued for 2 billion dollars is quite bizarre.
                  yes they may say its hearsay because the employee who mailed me heard it from the receptionist. but it does show the fact that she showed up there.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So sorry, i forgot to add very important fact.

                    In feb 2013 (one month before the eventual termination) the ex made another false phone call to police trying to have him arrested alleging two counts of harassment, police called the husband and stated they wanted to arrest him, eventually no charges were laid but this situation caused great stress and anxiety which expedited some mistakes at work resulting in termination of employment in first week of March 2013

                    Based on this, I was considering asking the court to terminate the spousal support retroactive to March 1st 2013, terminate all arrears and allow respondent to bring a motion to change final order on CS which is to be based on my new EI income.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      SadandTired - review old threads. Story is inconsistent, particularly regarding wife's educational credentials. I believe he tried to have income imputed at one time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
                        How is this even useful? Waste of post space for someone needing advice.
                        how was your post useful then??? Just your little dig at Tayken again. Please its gettting old.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
                          how was your post useful then??? Just your little dig at Tayken again. Please its gettting old.
                          About the same as yours SOTS. Feel better now?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                            ...

                            Wife made multitude of false allegations causing repeated false arrests (eventually withdrawn by crown) of the husband which lead to an initial employer & doctor advised Short Term Disability leave, persistent poor performance at work due to stress & anxiety and eventual termination by the employer in early March 2013. there was a severance package of 5 months, the husband kept paying CS & SS via FRO until the package ran out in August 2013.
                            If the party to this matter you are describing failed to notify the other party receiving CS and SS at the time of termination the courts will ask why notice wasn't provided at that time?

                            Hopefully you did the right thing and notified the other party you were terminated and that your severance would run out in 5 months and that in the event you were not working by that time SS can CS would have to be adjusted. You could have even made a comprehensive offer to settle that outlines this.

                            You can still make an offer to settle to adjust SS and CS to your EI that you will be getting shortly. For the 5 months the courts would have made you pay full SS and CS in accordance with the order/agreement in place as the income was coming in.

                            If you are unemployed then this is a material change in circumstance and you can go to court to get CS and SS adjusted... But, I would recommend to do first through an offer to settle. Then failing that take it on motion. You have costs coverage should you have to go on motion by the offer to settle.

                            Also, you should be actively seeking employment. You are going to be expected to return to work. Also, if you are too anxious to work, you may be too anxious to care for a child. Be very careful with how you present your "evidence" as to why you are not working and got fired.


                            Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                            Additional Factors:

                            1- Husband worked at same job for 7 years and was trained in their niche applications developed in 1980s and needs significant retraining in order to be re-employable.
                            Really. You program Smalltalk or something? Honestly, if you know a legacy software language (e.g. COBOL) you are worth your weight in gold. So, I wouldn't use that argument really. What "niche" after 7 years doesn't exist anymore in software market? The Java Platform is like 18 years old this year... I really don't buy this excuse... Unless you are programming in prolog don't use this lame excuse. Software engineering (applications development) is highly transferable. Even software platforms developed in the 1980s.

                            Go pickup a Ruby On Rails book... Start training yourself now. If you can program in one language you can program in others...

                            Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                            2- Wife 28 years old, holds a master's degree & a diploma in early childhood education, 11 months after separation (Sept 2012) she found a contract position at minimum wage but quit her job with in a week of the husband's termination
                            What is her "masters" in. It is odd that someone with a masters degree would complete a masters level education. Which came first the ECE or the masters degree? What the "mastesr" is in matters.

                            Either way, the other parent is capable of working is your point. But, you need to clarify better on the education to the court if you are going to argue this. If the best the person can be is an ECE... Then it is really a minimum wage job or slightly better. ECE is quite a common educational designation...


                            Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                            3- Next day from the husband's termination, wife calls his employer's receptionist "to make sure the husband was fired from job" the husband is informed by the receptionist and embarrassed.
                            The employer should have advised the person calling that the information is confidential and notified the caller that they do not give out this information and hung up the phone. Also, the husband shouldn't be embarrassed... The husband was already let go from the position for poor performance. This evidence is irrelivant... how do you demonstrate you were "embarrassed" what do you expect a judge to do with the evidence? Order the other party to not call people? Not be stupid about things?

                            Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                            4- during July 2013 the husband was communicating with his ex-boss to see if they would rehire him. the wife shows up at the employer's office and demands to talk to husband's ex-boss, she then spreads false rumors that husband is a bad man & is suing her for two billion dollars (whaaat?) the ex-boss told the husband that he will still be bugged by ex-wife and hence no rehiring
                            Doubt this "evidence". You were terminated from your position. Also, the "boss" would have simply called the police (or someone at the office) and had the person removed from the office if it was this bad.

                            Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                            5- Husband may get EI before next court date.
                            Then CS and SS should reflect the EI payments... But, I wouldn't leverage any of the above numbered points as "evidence" if I were you... They are all crappy.

                            Originally posted by sahibjee View Post
                            what is a reasonable position on CS & SS at a settlement conference coming up in September? the settlement confernce is 60 minutes long!
                            Reasonable position is that there was a material change in circumstance, you got fired, got 5 months severance, paid support for the 5 months based on the actual income, you are now going to EI as you haven't found employment, the SS and CS needs to change to reflect your actual income and when you become employed full time re-adjusted at that time to what you are making.

                            It isn't 60 minutes of you lamenting about all the above nonsense. It won't buy you anything from a judge in my opinion.

                            Good Luck!
                            Tayken

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                              If the party to this matter you are describing failed to notify the other party receiving CS and SS at the time of termination the courts will ask why notice wasn't provided at that time?

                              Hopefully you did the right thing and notified the other party you were terminated and that your severance would run out in 5 months and that in the event you were not working by that time SS can CS would have to be adjusted. You could have even made a comprehensive offer to settle that outlines this.
                              Thank you for your very valuable input Tayken. She was informed the same day in person and I even showed her the termination letter, I have an email from her in which she mentions seeing the termination letter.

                              Also, you should be actively seeking employment. You are going to be expected to return to work. Also, if you are too anxious to work, you may be too anxious to care for a child. Be very careful with how you present your "evidence" as to why you are not working and got fired.
                              anxiety did get me fired, but the reason i am unemployed now is because i couldn't find a job yet.

                              Really. You program Smalltalk or something? Honestly, if you know a legacy software language (e.g. COBOL) you are worth your weight in gold. So, I wouldn't use that argument really. What "niche" after 7 years doesn't exist anymore in software market? The Java Platform is like 18 years old this year... I really don't buy this excuse... Unless you are programming in prolog don't use this lame excuse. Software engineering (applications development) is highly transferable. Even software platforms developed in the 1980s.

                              Go pickup a Ruby On Rails book... Start training yourself now. If you can program in one language you can program in others...
                              I was not a developer, I was in a "development support" role (fixing the day to day stuff that goes wrong on the servers i.e, tracing "where" the problem is in the server and then redirecting to the actual developers to figure out the root cause & provide resolution)

                              the programs were written in a language called "Progress" let me know if you have ever heard of it? I only know couple of other companies who use this language in GTA and even they are phasing it out. - perhaps this is what i should tell the judge?

                              I am indeed trying to retrain myself on new technologies, but certainly I cant get hired at a senior position using a skill i just learned.

                              What is her "masters" in. It is odd that someone with a masters degree would complete a masters level education. Which came first the ECE or the masters degree? What the "mastesr" is in matters. Either way, the other parent is capable of working is your point. But, you need to clarify better on the education to the court if you are going to argue this. If the best the person can be is an ECE... Then it is really a minimum wage job or slightly better. ECE is quite a common educational designation...
                              Masters in geography, apparently with distinction (though i have not seen the gold medal she claims she got) ECE came after the masters, apparently she wanted to become a teacher (and did teach for a year).

                              The employer should have advised the person calling that the information is confidential and notified the caller that they do not give out this information and hung up the phone. Also, the husband shouldn't be embarrassed... The husband was already let go from the position for poor performance. This evidence is irrelivant... how do you demonstrate you were "embarrassed" what do you expect a judge to do with the evidence? Order the other party to not call people? Not be stupid about things?
                              Embarrassed because you develop a rapport with the people you work with, and your ex calling to "make sure" that you were fired, isnt that embarrassing, specially the person who received the call doesn't know that you were separated?

                              Doubt this "evidence". You were terminated from your position. Also, the "boss" would have simply called the police (or someone at the office) and had the person removed from the office if it was this bad.
                              Indeed i was terminated, but i did not have a bad relationship with my ex-boss, he actually apologized for terminating my position and pinned it on his boss and said "out of my hands buddy". I talk to many of my ex-colleagues once in a while and have very good relations with my other ex-bosses who moved on higher within the company or elsewhere.
                              I am not sure if she created a scene there, i never claimed that, All i learned was about her allegations and that there isnt a possibility of re-hiring. but if its not good evidence then I should just keep it out of the affidavit.

                              Then CS and SS should reflect the EI payments... But, I wouldn't leverage any of the above numbered points as "evidence" if I were you... They are all crappy.

                              Reasonable position is that there was a material change in circumstance, you got fired, got 5 months severance, paid support for the 5 months based on the actual income, you are now going to EI as you haven't found employment, the SS and CS needs to change to reflect your actual income and when you become employed full time re-adjusted at that time to what you are making.
                              Shouldnt I be asking for termination of CS based on the length of marriage & the duration i have already paid in addition to having no ability to pay any longer?

                              It isn't 60 minutes of you lamenting about all the above nonsense. It won't buy you anything from a judge in my opinion.

                              Good Luck!
                              Tayken
                              Agreed, we need to convert this nonsense into arguments that can get the required results.
                              Last edited by sahibjee; 08-23-2013, 01:02 AM.

                              Comment

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