Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Divorce & Family Law

Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 05-29-2019, 07:02 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 386
Mom 2 Two is on a distinguished road
Default OCL Recommendations

So S/C is tomorrow.

I am in receipt of my EX’s brief.

He strongly disagrees will most of OCL’s recommendations of course. Except for a small few that benefit him... such as some minor changes to access schedule.

The one that I am most concerned about is the therapy and parenting classes he has been told to take.

His Brief says he will “endeavour” to get therapy with our children and himself but does not want it ordered.

Of course he makes no mention of the parenting classes. Which is what he needs the most. Imo.

This will now be the 3rd social worker/ professional to recommend he get some help to learn how to support our children better. It shows in the report from collaterals who else has met with dad and recommended parenting classes.

The fact that dad says he will “endeavour” means nothing. As he has said many times in the past he will attend. But why on earth should anyone believe him since he has yet to do so?

This is one issue I hope at some point will be court ordered.

That is where a lot of the kids resentment comes from. The way they are treated by dad.

Have any of you actually had the SC judge read your OCL report? And speak to what is in it?

I am pretty sure the report will get disputed which I know means nothing.

But everything else aside I really want my ex to be able to better emotionally support our kids and understand what they are going through.

He still is arguing we communicate “good enough” for joint custody.

He says he gets back to me in 24 hrs. Lol

I have so many emails where it takes weeks to get a response and only after 2nd request.

One of his “wants orders” was to order me to include him in taking kids to bday parties in his time. Lol.

Again I send the invites. He ignores. Child misses out. So a week before I get his brief. As usual I send a bday invite. I send photo of invite and ask him to respond. Either way yes or no.

No response given. Send 2nd email saying 2nd request. He actually responded. (Responded to parents, not me) which is fine. After the second email.

So again another example of how he can’t /won’t communicate with me. And I have a million others.

Anyways I know the bashers will come out.

I just want our kids to start trusting dad again and then I think things will get better for them. Which is why dad really needs to consider what has been recommended and why.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-29-2019, 08:46 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 519
iona6656 is on a distinguished road
Default

Have you put all of these suggestions from the OCL into a settlement offer?

I haven't been to an SC post-OCL so I can't tell you how much the SC judge reads and references the report...but I can imagine they look first and foremost at what the settlement offers are.

What does yours say/offer?

What does dads say/offer?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-29-2019, 09:32 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 386
Mom 2 Two is on a distinguished road
Default

So my lawyer advised not to put the therapy/parenting class in the offer. His reasoning was because of course he wouldn’t accept it. I strongly already knew he wouldn’t accept it anyways.

So depending on what SC judge says tomorrow. I will do up another offer. And I think I will include the Caring Dads course. We are so far apart in our offers.

My offer asks for most of the arrears he owes with a discount. His offer says he owes $0.00. That is insane.

My offer says Sole custody. His says joint.

Ocl included my ex admitted his gf writes all correspondence. Ocl says the gf has triangulated herself Into the parental relationship and needs to disengage completely.

My ex says we can communicate enough for joint.

Even though OCL pointed out several instances where consent was not given for medical necessities. Which was not in children’s best interest to deny. And that ex is not directly doing any communication with me.

Ex wants to pickup children at 4:30 pm on his Friday and mid week access.

I say it should be from school or bus stop (ex still working at this time). As why should I have to provide childcare/ pay for it for a half hour until he finishes work.

Also the children are picked up by a family member and taken to their home. The ex refuses to pickup the children from that location. He insists it’s my home. Yet I work until 5pm and don’t get home till 5:30 after picking the children up. So I suggest 6pm pickup on his access Friday but he still insists on 4:30 pm.

The holiday stuff we are very far apart on. There is an existing agreement that was filed with the courts.

He has only had one week in the summer. I offered two weeks and OCL recommends that as well. He wants week in week off because his gf doesn’t work in the summer and can baby sit them. He also says that he can be home during this time??? Yet he is an auto mechanic and that is busiest time of year.

He says that kids should not be in summer camps specifically because I need before and after care. And he can provide it instead of paying a portion of it. And that I have never needed before an after care in the past. All of a sudden I need it now? I have the past 4 years of camp in invoices showing we have always used before/after care. Lol.

Keep in mind he lives 50 mins away from children.

He agrees to $500 total per year for sports. (For two kids)

And if that includes a summer/spring sport he will not pay for that and summer camp??

I offered he pay for half the boys hockey as he always has previously. And we put I would be responsible for child care in the summer no cost to him.

He offered $200 per year for tutoring. Again for two kids. (They currently don’t require it)
And a max of $500 year for therapy for both kids after benefits which I pay for all of.

$25 a year for orthotics.
No mention of dental fees or other health related items.

1/3 of tuition books and residence.

He wants it ordered that I inform him if the kids are seriously ill two days prior to access. Lol

This was because last year our son developed strep the day before his vacation. I notified him as soon as I could. But this again is my fault and I ruined their vacation


I had him at dr’s two days prior and strep test came back negative. The morning before he was going with dad for a week he still felt ill. (I did inform dad of the previous app). So I then took child to emerge knowing he would’ve camping for a week. And emerge two days after a neg test confirmed it was strep.

He also insists I provide professional consents again. I have provided these in writing to him and the professionals of whom most of them he already had prior contact.
He says I have changed them and not notified him. Again all bs.


He had family day weekend that I would never have them on the Monday. If it’s his weekend he keeps them till 7pm Monday. If it’s my weekend he gets them Sunday morning till Monday night. Lol.

The way he split the holidays I would never have a long weekend with our kids

I offered long weekends stay as they are and he can have kids until the Monday at 1pm.


Keep in mind the children have repeatedly said throughout the entire OCL report they do not want more time with dad.

Yet my offer significantly increased his time from what he has now and has had the last 5.5 years.

I said I could agree to $500/yr per child for all extra curricular. Kids only play hockey and soccer.

I said I would cover daycare

And that I can’t and shouldn’t be made to agree to a limit on health/ medical costs.

Im sure there is more. But we are miles apart on all of it.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-29-2019, 09:43 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 519
iona6656 is on a distinguished road
Default

I think putting in therapy is a good idea if it's recommended by OCL and htere is a significant issue. If you want to sweeten the deal- you do the same thing.

In my offer- I included a provision saying both parents continue therapy with their respective therapists AND continue co-parent therapy. I want my ex to continue with his therapy- and I will do the same to show it's even-steven. As to parenting classes- I find that one tough...from all the case law I've read- judges don't like to order it. Or worse- they get aggressive and ask whether the parent requesting it has done it themselves.

All the stuff that he's requesting- and you've already done- why not agree to it again? Send back another offer that agrees to it. Just cause you're agreeing to it- doesn't mean you havent' already been doing it.

The way you're framing things like "his gf doesnt' work in the summer, and he's not around"- I don't think it's helpful and a judge might go "it doesn't matter if it's the gf watching them"...instead- can you frame it in a parenting plan that works up to what he wants AND incorporates some of the suggestions from the OCL? e.g. work with a kids therapist and both parents attend- when all parties agree it's time- increase the kids time, every couple of months. So you can work up to week about access in the summer next year or the year after...etc etc.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:08 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 386
Mom 2 Two is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
I think putting in therapy is a good idea if it's recommended by OCL and htere is a significant issue. If you want to sweeten the deal- you do the same thing.

In my offer- I included a provision saying both parents continue therapy with their respective therapists AND continue co-parent therapy. I want my ex to continue with his therapy- and I will do the same to show it's even-steven. As to parenting classes- I find that one tough...from all the case law I've read- judges don't like to order it. Or worse- they get aggressive and ask whether the parent requesting it has done it themselves.

All the stuff that he's requesting- and you've already done- why not agree to it again? Send back another offer that agrees to it. Just cause you're agreeing to it- doesn't mean you havent' already been doing it.

The way you're framing things like "his gf doesnt' work in the summer, and he's not around"- I don't think it's helpful and a judge might go "it doesn't matter if it's the gf watching them"...instead- can you frame it in a parenting plan that works up to what he wants AND incorporates some of the suggestions from the OCL? e.g. work with a kids therapist and both parents attend- when all parties agree it's time- increase the kids time, every couple of months. So you can work up to week about access in the summer next year or the year after...etc etc.


Thanks Iona all great suggestions.

So here is the thing. I have done my due diligence. I took kids to moms house dads house program. Which is sited in OCL report. I am participating in a parenting course call “circle of Security”. Also sited in the OCL report. And ocl says that I have sought therapy myself and that I continue to do so as I feel its needed. All of these things were on my own choice.

Actually school social worker recommended dad take the kids to Moms house dads house and he didn’t do it. So I took them.
I also took the children to therapy for the last year and a half. I can no longer afford it on my own and pay for this litigation.

Do you see a pattern?? Mom does everything. Dad does nothing. It’s always been this way. Ocl even out mom has always had to advocate for dad t be involved.

So that clarifies the therapy part.

The children do NOT want to spend more tome with dad. My oldest is 11. Does this count for nothing. And he specifically says he does not want to spend time with the gf and her kids.

These are kids who have routine and structure with mom and have had so for a very long time. Why is it fair to upset this when for the last year dad has made no effort even while knowing we are in litigation??

He says I don’t inform him of school events. Yet I have every email showing I did. And I invite to him to every appointment. School or drs. And he doesn’t show up. Particularly the school ones where he says I don’t tell him??

One being two weeks ago and important meeting. He doesn’t respond to me. And he doesn’t show up??
Yet I should put forth a plan to increase time??

I agree with what you are saying. Put things in place that must take place first.

But this is a person who just put in his brief he refuses to be ordered to do any of this

Your ex is at least attending the parenting stuff with you. Kiddos to him.
My ex has been invited several times. He ignores.

Sure your right. I can agree to the stuff I already. Ex the consents. No biggy. Your right

I asked the OCL to recommend co-parent therapy. There is a program called New ways for families.. she didn’t think it was needed. As she said it’s more important for dad to repair his relationship with his kids first and foremost.

I offered to attend this Program with my ex and his partner before I took the court route. Again... two requests Ignored.


Oh he also put in he wants a parenting coordinator and that if we can’t agree the coordinator has final say? He can’t afford to pay his fair share but wants us to pay for this??

If I put in the clause that you are suggesting. Which I think is a good incentive for him to show he really does what more time and is willing to work towards that. There is no way he will ever agree to that. I will run it by my lawyer and see what he thinks.

And as self rep mom already said and ocl said. Their school their medical stuff and primary residence are already figured out. The sports they play as well. So why does he insist on joint custody after so long? It’s a control issue that is all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:21 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 519
iona6656 is on a distinguished road
Default

all the things you're saying- are exactly what the court would want to see- put it in writing. make all those offers, again- in your offer.

my lawyer put everything focused on D2 in parenting, we set out a parenting plan that continually increases D2s time with her dad- but there are checkpoints along the way that were recommended by OCL. Basically the strategy he's taking is "WARNING SIGN- something is not okay with dad and his anger. Could impact D2 adversely. Let's set out a plan so that D2 is safe". For me- safety is actual physical safety...for you- safety seems like mental safety for your boys. Equally as important. I hope your lawyer is focusing on that - and not on the time sharing....the narrative the OCL set out for you is that Dad has issues with his boys, and he needs to address it to ensure kids are okay. Run with that- which is what you sound like you're doing. Just make sure that's really clear in your court documents.


our co-parent therapist is actually a parenting coordinator as well. I didn't set it out in the offer- but I offered for us to continue to work with her and IFF we can't reach a consented agreement with her help - we just take it back to court. So far I like our co-parent therapist. I think it's good to feel like we have some one neutral guiding us....and I'll certainly give my ex the fact that he's continued with her- and me and that he seems committed to the process. He's back in therapy as well- and I'm having an intake with his therapist next week.

now- i just wish we could settle the litigaiton and stop the bleeding from legal fees.

Last edited by iona6656; 05-29-2019 at 10:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:32 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Posts: 386
Mom 2 Two is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
all the things you're saying- are exactly what the court would want to see- put it in writing. make all those offers, again- in your offer.

my lawyer put everything focused on D2 in parenting, we set out a parenting plan that continually increases D2s time with her dad- but there are checkpoints along the way that were recommended by OCL. Basically the strategy he's taking is "WARNING SIGN- something is not okay with dad and his anger. Could impact D2 adversely. Let's set out a plan so that D2 is safe". For me- safety is actual physical safety...for you- safety seems like mental safety for your boys. Equally as important. I hope your lawyer is focusing on that - and not on the time sharing....the narrative the OCL set out for you is that Dad has issues with his boys, and he needs to address it to ensure kids are okay. Run with that- which is what you sound like you're doing. Just make sure that's really clear in your court documents.


our co-parent therapist is actually a parenting coordinator as well. I didn't set it out in the offer- but I offered for us to continue to work with her and IFF we can't reach a consented agreement with her help - we just take it back to court. So far I like our co-parent therapist. I think it's good to feel like we have some one neutral guiding us....and I'll certainly give my ex the fact that he's continued with her- and me and that he seems committed to the process. He's back in therapy as well- and I'm having an intake with his therapist next week.

now- i just wish we could settle the litigaiton and stop the bleeding from legal fees.


I am glad things are working out for you and that at least your ex is trying and engaging in all these services. Mine however has always refused and continues to refuse.

The OCL also said same as you. Dad takes kids to therapy. And when therapist thinks they are ready. They integrate back with gf’s kids

Yes ocl recommended gf’s kids not be there on dads access. As they bully my kids and all the attention is on them. So perhaps I should add that in too although I know it won’t fly.

Gf changed her access when she met my ex so they had all kids together. Fine I get it. Who wouldn’t. Want a kid free weekend. Except if my ex really wants to repair things he would make it go back to how it was. Just his kids with him and gf. I know that’s a hard one but it’s what our kids need


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:34 AM
gettingexpensive gettingexpensive is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 44
gettingexpensive is on a distinguished road
Default

Mom 2 two: what's the way out since you guys are so far apart? A trial to have the judge agree on these items? they all seem "trivial" but really pile up in the end.

Custody / visitation will be the big one but other than that, I find all of this a big waste of time. Shouldn't all these expense be section 7 (or whatever it is) and he pays a percentage of them based on income? You then claim what you want but honestly if the kids are with you most of the times I wouldn't claim that much since it seems a major hassle to deal with him..

Does he have NPD or some other cluster B personality issues? These people like high conflict and you can't negotiate with them since they feel entitled. Ask me how i know. lol..
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:41 AM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 519
iona6656 is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
The OCL also said same as you. Dad takes kids to therapy. And when therapist thinks they are ready. They integrate back with gf’s kids

Yes ocl recommended gf’s kids not be there on dads access. As they bully my kids and all the attention is on them. So perhaps I should add that in too although I know it won’t fly.
You know what problem both you and I have? The OCL could mean shit to the judge. And to that- I have no answer....I guess we'll see. I'm banking on the threat of the OCLs report bringing my ex to the table on negotiations. But I could be 100% wrong.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-29-2019, 10:58 AM
gettingexpensive gettingexpensive is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 44
gettingexpensive is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
You know what problem both you and I have? The OCL could mean shit to the judge. And to that- I have no answer....I guess we'll see. I'm banking on the threat of the OCLs report bringing my ex to the table on negotiations. But I could be 100% wrong.
So an OCL report doesn't mean anything? I thought that it was the children's voice..
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OCL Recommendations notenoughtape Divorce & Family Law 14 09-18-2018 10:21 PM
Financial Planner/Advisor, recommendations? Teddie Financial Issues 6 11-03-2011 04:16 PM
recommendations for child psychologist/psychiatrist CMG Parenting Issues 3 04-06-2011 09:30 AM
recommendations or changes in final orders tugofwar Divorce & Family Law 11 05-21-2010 05:49 PM
Recommendations for mediator? davedad Divorce Support 6 03-27-2009 11:29 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:38 PM.