Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Domestic Violence

Domestic Violence Dealing with abuse and violence. Getting support and help.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 07-10-2018, 06:45 PM
Manipulated Manipulated is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 5
Manipulated is on a distinguished road
Default Need a new lawyer!

Thank you for bringing to my attention that this response was to a very outdated post!

My daughter is needing to find a lawyer who deals with civil law (damages) that was brought into a family law case (domestic violence) by her previous lawyer whom we had to fire because she was acting more on behalf of the criminal spouse than my daughter. My daughter had to self-represent at the last settlement conference where her spouse's lawyer bulldozed her way through the conference, and my daughter was not allowed to speak. The presiding judge was the same judge who sentenced her spouse to jail time for criminal activity, including domestic violence, but who now turned around and said that the domestic violence that occurred was only "allegation." We are having a hard time finding a lawyer that will take the case as it is so complicated. If there is anyone who wants to set a precedent in family law, this could be the case.

I wrote earlier (sorry for some repeat):
There was a criminal conviction in my daughter's case, and we have been researching tort law for damages; however, we had to fire my daughter's lawyer as she seemed to be fighting more for the criminal spouse, and now we need to find a lawyer who will do tort law in our area. Nobody seems to want the case, as one lawyer put it, "I wouldn't touch your case with a 10 foot barge pole!" It is a very complicated case but we need a lawyer ASAP. I have read of some personal injury lawyers doing this type of civil case but, because it is connected to the family law case, it's hard to find someone willing to do it. If anyone reading this has suggestions, anything would be welcome.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-10-2018, 07:22 PM
arabian's Avatar
arabian arabian is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 10,666
arabian will become famous soon enough
Default

I gather this is 8 years old? My suggestion is to try to help your daughter rebuild her life.

Do you have oodles of money to pay a lawyer? If so, you should have no problem finding someone. Retainer will be significant (much more than anything family law lawyer would request). Even if you are well-funded, competent counsel would look at your situation to see if there is any meat in it and how process to outcome could affect one's professional reputation.

Case conferences are not recorded so you have a 'he said-she said' situation. Different rules/norms in family law so you would need someone who has experience with it.

Again, is it worth it? What on earth do you hope to gain from keeping what appears to be a very long-term acrimonious divorce alive?
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-10-2018, 11:00 PM
backinthesaddle backinthesaddle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 82
backinthesaddle is on a distinguished road
Default

Honestly, some things aren't adding up. Do you have a copy of the file or court transcripts from the criminal case? Are you sure he was convicted or simply given suspended sentence and a Sec. 810 peace bond? His convictions for other criminal matters like fraud or theft have nothing to do with domestic violence case so be sure he was actually sentenced to jail time for assault on your daughter and not the other matters before the court. The criminal trial for assault on your daughter (if that is what happened) would not occur concurrently in the same criminal proceedings and sentencing would be different too unless the other matters are related ie. mischief to her property, criminal harassment . Are you referring to physical/mental damage suffered by your daughter or personal damages like mischief to property during domestic violence? It is unclear. Did your daughter lose wages, suffer permanent damage and cannot work etc. Civil law is for compensatory damages. As Arabian mentioned above, is it worth it? Years of turmoil ahead. If your daughter sincerely needs money for damages inflicted upon her for domestic violence a better option would be to apply to the Criminal Injuries Compensation Board. She will need police reports and medical records. She needs to get on with her life and put this all behind her. Rehashing it and making her constantly face this is victimizing her all over again. Give her strength to move on and be happy.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-11-2018, 10:20 AM
Manipulated Manipulated is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 5
Manipulated is on a distinguished road
Default

arabian: First of all, your math is wrong...the case is 4 years old, but you wouldn't know that since I did not give those details. A life cannot be rebuilt until there is closure. We have already paid oodles of money (12 grand) to a lawyer who did nothing. The settlement conference was indeed recorded and the judge said it could be obtained if asked for. Some victims of domestic violence may be able to "just move on," others need closure and a resolution.

backinthesaddle: I really hate when someone says "things are not adding up." I have not given the whole picture for a reason. Yes, we have all the court transcripts from the case. There was no trial. Spouse was charged and convicted on 3 counts of criminal activity and 2 counts of domestic violence. He got 14 months in jail. If you did your research you would know that damages for domestic violence ARE allowed under tort law if there is a criminal conviction for assault. It is also assumed that psychological/mental/emotional damage DOES occur when there is domestic violence. I am confident that my daughter WILL get on with her life once she has closure. Rehashing this on a daily basis by talking about it has made her stronger and able to stand up to her narcissistic sociopathic spouse! What brings her down are comments to "walk away" and "get on with your life."

I was simply asking if anyone knew of any lawyers who dealt with tort law in domestic violence cases or personal injury lawyers dealing with domestic violence in family law. There must be others out there who are needing the same.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-11-2018, 10:57 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,628
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

It sounds like you need to split the cases. One case for the tort law and then a separate one for the family law issues.

What exactly is the issue other than the damages from the civil case? Do they have an agreement in place for the family law aspect? Is she not happy with the decisions?

In some family law cases, the domestic charges may not have any impact on the decisions. Child support is set in law, custody and access are not impacted by the domestic violence unless there is an issue with the child and/or there is a supervision order. If she is seeking ss or equalization or even a supervision order then all of those should be severed from the damages. Perhaps thats why shes not finding a lawyer—because the issues are still tied together...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:13 PM
backinthesaddle backinthesaddle is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 82
backinthesaddle is on a distinguished road
Default

I am sorry your daughter has gone through this. In no way is anyone trying to minimize what has happened. In addition to my own issues (hence me being here for support) I would be considered an expert in this field and have over 20 years experience and have attended court over 100 times for trials so I know what I’m talking about. I am trying to say that if the only way your daughter feels she can get closure is spending thousands of dollars to sue in civil court, she may be setting herself up for disappointment. Perhaps counseling to trying and deal with it and find healing other ways to find closure and put it behind her and live her life happily moving forward. Twelve thousand dollars to a lawyer is a relatively small amount in the big picture. Canada tort law has a limit for pain and suffering and although victims may live forever with emotional scars, the amount you will spend to get what you feel she deserves and fight in civil court may be equal. Having a court case hanging over your head for years is stressful so factor that in too. If there was no trial as you said meant he plead the charge so depending on what he plead to will also play into it. He actually may have spent jail time for his other criminal activity and not the domestic issues. Only his criminal record would tell this. Abuse comes in all forms and only assault is recognized under Canadian law under the Criminal Code. Criminal harassment and mischief too but you only mention the violence. Trying to prove other forms of abuse is difficult in a criminal trial is difficult because it is sometimes a matter of opinion and perspective and a he said she said situation because only assault is documented typically. I think anyone willing to take your case when you have already been advised against it is just looking to make some money off your vulnerability. The best revenge your daughter can give her abuser is to be happy and live a rich fulfilling life without him. Best of luck!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-11-2018, 12:44 PM
Manipulated Manipulated is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 5
Manipulated is on a distinguished road
Default

backinthesaddle:
Thank you for you reply. What I'm trying to say is that spouse DID spend time in jail for assault which entitles her to damages in family court under tort law, according to our research. Thank you for the info that tort law has a limit for pain and suffering. I will have to look that up to see what the ceiling is. One other point..."I think anyone willing to take your case when you have already been advised against it"...not sure what you mean by that, but I never said anyone has advised against it. The lawyer who said she wouldn't touch the case has been very helpful with other certain points of law; however, told us that she was not qualified in THIS particular case to take it on. We simply need to find a lawyer who can help in this area of expertise. I guess the problem with forums like this is that instead of replying to the question, people need to know details. We know the details of this case, and perhaps I'm on the wrong board with my question, even though this is a domestic violence case. Please accept my apologies if I seemed rather snippy....we're just soooo frustrated.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:06 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,150
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulated View Post
We have already paid oodles of money (12 grand) to a lawyer who did nothing.
When Arabian said oodles, she probably meant something on the order of $50,000-$100,000 or more. $12,000 is hardly oodles, that would be a moderately cheap family law case. If you think that $12,000 is oodles, then you do not have anything close to the financial resources to pursue this case.

Quote:
A life cannot be rebuilt until there is closure.
I'm not sure how bankruptcy helps in the rebuilding process. The justice system rarely provides closure. Have new relationships, go on some nice vacations. For the money you would spend to maybe get closure you could probably go on an around the world trip in luxury hotels. I bet I know which would provide more closure.

Also, random question, but assuming you win your civil case, does the ex have the resources to satisfy the judgement? I say this often, but if you win a million dollar judgement against me, you would be very disappointed in how much you would actually collect.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-11-2018, 01:20 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,150
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulated View Post
We are having a hard time finding a lawyer that will take the case as it is so complicated. If there is anyone who wants to set a precedent in family law, this could be the case.
Honestly, I need to know, how much money do you have? You are hoping to pursue a complicated civil case for emotional damages? This isn't the states, you are not going to get anything close to what you think you might get. In Canada, unless you can show actual damages, you are not going to get very much. You could easily spend $120,000 on the case and get a judgement for $40,000, of which you maybe collect $10,000 after a few years of wrangling.

Quote:
Nobody seems to want the case, as one lawyer put it, "I wouldn't touch your case with a 10 foot barge pole!" It is a very complicated case but we need a lawyer ASAP.
Self-represent or drop the case. You are being told loud and clear that pursuing this case is a terrible plan. I don't even need to know the details, the little bit you said already is more than enough.

This will destroy your family. You need to drop this. You need therapy, your daughter needs therapy. Courts are not therapy. Seriously, you are about to wreck your financial future, your daughter's financial future... and, if there are any kids in the picture, your grandchildren's financial futures as well.

Your daughter got assaulted, that sucks. No amount of money will undo that damage. The guy doesn't care, he already went to jail. You already got as much of a "victory" as you can reasonably get. Civil damages are possible, but it is the wrong move.

Eventually you will find a lawyer who will represent you. He will take the case, and you will lose everything. You will lose your house, you will lose your savings, you will lose your retirement. The lawyer who takes your case will go on a nice vacation and then move on to his next victim. Twenty years from now your family will still be shattered, and nobody will care.

Quote:
If anyone reading this has suggestions, anything would be welcome.
I'm just a random person on a forum. It will be easy to dismiss what I have to say. Ignore me if you wish, but listen to the other lawyers who wouldn't take the case. You can stop this train, but you have to stop it before you meet the lawyer who will take everything from you.

Prediction: In four years time, you will be posting on a public forum asking how you can sue your lawyer for poorly representing you and causing you to lose your case.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-11-2018, 03:04 PM
arabian's Avatar
arabian arabian is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 10,666
arabian will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manipulated View Post
arabian: First of all, your math is wrong...the case is 4 years old, but you wouldn't know that since I did not give those details. A life cannot be rebuilt until there is closure. We have already paid oodles of money (12 grand) to a lawyer who did nothing. The settlement conference was indeed recorded and the judge said it could be obtained if asked for. Some victims of domestic violence may be able to "just move on," others need closure and a resolution.

backinthesaddle: I really hate when someone says "things are not adding up." I have not given the whole picture for a reason. Yes, we have all the court transcripts from the case. There was no trial. Spouse was charged and convicted on 3 counts of criminal activity and 2 counts of domestic violence. He got 14 months in jail. If you did your research you would know that damages for domestic violence ARE allowed under tort law if there is a criminal conviction for assault. It is also assumed that psychological/mental/emotional damage DOES occur when there is domestic violence. I am confident that my daughter WILL get on with her life once she has closure. Rehashing this on a daily basis by talking about it has made her stronger and able to stand up to her narcissistic sociopathic spouse! What brings her down are comments to "walk away" and "get on with your life."

I was simply asking if anyone knew of any lawyers who dealt with tort law in domestic violence cases or personal injury lawyers dealing with domestic violence in family law. There must be others out there who are needing the same.
Hi Manipulated - sorry I erred in thinking you had been litigating for 8 years. Often people think they are clever and change their user names on here. I now see you had merely posted on a very old thread.

Yes "oodles" is (to me) like 75K+
If you never made it to trial, and you have spent 12k so far and all you have arrived at are a few case conferences, then you should be able to extrapolate the 12k and see even how expensive a trial in family court can be.

I find it interesting that your daughter is not the one posting on this forum.

Daughter's ex spent time in the big house for DV? Why would you/she want to get involved with him again (via litigating torts)? Perhaps you/she are like my ex and the only way you know how to stay connected is by way of ongoing litigation?

By the way, I am a survivor of domestic violence. I am also a survivor of the antics of an ex who has dragged me to court many times AFTER our divorce (2010). Some people just can't move on with their lives.

I'd think very hard about the advice that has been given to you on this forum. People on here have "done their time" in and out of court. We are very well aware of the emotional costs involved.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can my lawyer berate me? Holly Divorce & Family Law 8 07-11-2012 12:35 PM
Ditching Lawyer to Represent Myself Rhonda&Kids Divorce & Family Law 8 02-28-2010 12:33 PM
Lawyer out of town? What to do? Edward Divorce & Family Law 2 10-20-2009 08:46 AM
Common law and lawyer Max22258 Common Law Issues 11 04-02-2009 05:57 PM
Sounds like my lawyer is gonna bail on me... sasha1 Divorce & Family Law 26 01-18-2006 06:13 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:00 PM.