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Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 02-19-2006, 06:29 PM
jlalex jlalex is offline
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Default claiming support while on disability...

A question for all you wonderful people here

My common law hubby is just now formalizing his custody and child support arrangements. There is no agreement on paper let alone in the court system. He's always paid by transfering funds from his account directly into hers. She recieves disability payments from the province. He always has followed the child support guidline amounts. But there is reason to believe that she hasn't been claiming it. More than once she tried to convince him to tell the government that they monies are a 'gift'.

Now she hasn't been served with any papers up to this point, and the lawyer suggest he talk to her and see if they can settle amicably. Its been 'kind of' civil over the years..she's been power tripping lately in terms of access to the child. We live in Toronto and she lives in Ottawa..last time he went to pick him up she said no he can't go since hubby wouldn't agree to help scam the government. Thats one of the main reasons he is looking for formalize things with the court. At least if he had some papers there is something he could do if she decides to pull that again. Its an awful long drive to have to turn around empty handed..

Anyhow..will she have to submit her financial records? She will likely ask for spousal support..but unless a Judge orders it, it ain't gonna happen. They have been seperated for over 6 yrs. And the last 2 she's living with someone else.

Here in a nutshell is what he'll be asking for:
Alternating holidays
1 month every summer
Every March break
as well as a certain amount of minimum days a year ( haven't come up with the extact number yet)
take full responsibility for transportation time and cost
child support at table amounts
NO spousal support
Joint custody with primary residence with her

Thats the gist of it...so whats likely to happen?? Will having the bank records showing the transfers into her account be enough proof that he has been paying? Is it likely any Judge would not agree to the above? He's not looking to negotiate..especially as this is the arrangement they've already maintained the last 6+years.

( sorry its so long..but I thought it better to give too much info than not enough)

Thanks!
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Old 02-19-2006, 10:19 PM
Grace Grace is offline
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Jlalex,

If everyone is happy with this arrangement why not get a separation agreement drawn up. No need to use the court system. It is always best to work out as many issues together as possible. Use mediation or collaborative law, if necessary. Leave the court system as a last resort. You can always file your separation agreement with the courts afterwards.
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Old 02-20-2006, 01:01 AM
logicalvelocity logicalvelocity is offline
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jlalex,

Interesting topic.

I just did some research on same for a friend of mine in a similar predicament.

If the party is receiving support ie: child support and spousal support without a court order this is indeed treated as a gift. The onus is on the party to declare it as an income to the appropriate ministry. The ministry will use its own discretion to treat it as a gift as long as it falls within the directive amounts.

Now if the child support and spousal support is court ordered, the ministry by default treats it as an income. The party most likely will no longer receive the ODSP or Ontario works as they fail to qualify.

That being said, place a dollar value on the health benefits she receives from ODSP or Ontario works courtesy of John Q. Public including the free prescriptions, dental plans, winter clothing allowances, back to school clothes allowances etc. 5 to 10 K a year alone. This will all be gone if she receives court ordered spousal support as she will no longer be a public charge.

Take a stance and call her bluff. Wait for the court to order spousal support.
I bet you will never see her pursuing spousal support in court unless the ministry is forcing her too. By the sounds of it, she has done her homework and wants the spousal support to be paid but as a gift! She is working the system.

If the court orders retro-active spousal support the money will have to be paid back to the ministry.

If you continue to pay without a court order, you will not get credit for amounts paid. It is a gift.

The directives can be found here for ODSP

http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/CFCS/en/pr.../odspisdir.htm

LV
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Old 02-20-2006, 07:45 AM
jlalex jlalex is offline
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Thanks for the information!!

Grace..hopefully it will remain civil and amicable. Once he speaks to her about this I have a feeling she may get a little freaked out at least initially. The lawyer we've retained believes that there is a slim to none chance of her obtaining spousal support due to the fact of the amount of time that has passed..she has yet to establish the need after 6 years, has spent the last 2 living with someone else. And also her standard of living basically remained the same throughout..( she didn't like him to work when they were together as it cut into her disability payments )

Logicalvelocity..thank you for all the information you've provided. I'm wondering though..a few months back she wrote a letter to him, mostly stating how he had ruined her life etc..but within she states that from now on she wants the child support payments done through the FRO..now is it simply because there has been no support order in place that the monies would be considered a gift, or would this acknowledgement in her own letter be enough to prove that it was intended for child support purposes?

She has told him in the past that she has told the government that he doesn't send child support but every once in a while items such as clothing and presents and sometimes monetary gifts. From my understanding she is to do everything reasonably to obtain support from him. She has led them to believe that she has no way on contacting him etc...absolutely untrue of course..I'm wondering what kind of a hole she's dug herself into.

Anyhow..thanks to both of you for taking time to reply!! Have a great day!
J
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Old 02-20-2006, 09:11 AM
god knows the truth god knows the truth is offline
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It seems the ex is a very silly woman for playing around with the gov't like that. for the sake of a few dollars she's willing to go the jail--fraud. If she says that your isn't [aying he had the proof via the bank transfer, and in the letter. I'm not 100% sure about this but I think you need a court order to go through the family resp. office(fro).
It seems your hubby's ex is another example of a parent using the child as a pond for revenge. how sad
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Old 02-20-2006, 09:38 AM
jlalex jlalex is offline
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godknowsthetruth, you are right, it is very unfortunate that parents act this way. Just this past Christmas he was supposed to come up the friday before the holiday and pick up their son, they ended up getting in an argument and she said forget coming up and getting your son. Just out of spite of course. He of course was very angry and upset. But we talked and decided that if this was the way she wanted to play then fine. We called her bluff..she called the next day (dec 23rd) and asked what time he would be arriving..he said forget it..you can't just yank me and our son around whenever it suits you.
The ironic thing was she hadn't bought any presents or anything because she assumed she had the time to go while the son was here..so there she was 1.5 days before Christmas with nothing. Then she actually had the nerve to call a couple of days later asking him to 'advance' her $600 dollars so she could cover her rent because she spent it all on presents..

In the end we ended up going up the 27th to pick his son up and had a great time. But I worry about the kind of damage this will do to their child. She has so much bitterness and resentment built up..not only against hubby but against the world. What she fails to see is that she is the master of her own destiny and has created every problem she's been suffering from. Even her own illness is due to mismanagement of her health. I've suggested to hubby he try to take pity upon her as she must be living a truly miserable existence even if it is due to her own making. He tries but there is a lot of history there and a lot of anger on his part.

Why oh why do some parents have to be so blinded by their anger at the expense of their child?
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Old 02-20-2006, 08:07 PM
logicalvelocity logicalvelocity is offline
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jlalex,

Its not that simple to have the FRO involved to collect payments.

They (FRO) will only get involved when an SDO - (support deduction order) is issued by the court or in the alternative a separation agreement is filled with the registar and the registar issues a SDO to FRO.

Never pay this person cash. Aways by cheque and write on the cheque CHILD Support and name of child.

If you think she is misleading the ministry, they do have a fraud line which is anonymous.

It can be found here at this link

http://www.pace.gov.on.ca/paceweb/ow..._ID=UNT0001348

General Inquiry: 416-326-8200
Fax: 416-326-1735
Address:
INCOME SUPPORT, COMPLIANCE AND FRAUD CONTROL UNIT
Hepburn Block
3rd Flr Rm 386
80 Grosvenor St
Toronto ON M7A 1E9
Description
The Income Support, Compliance and Fraud Control Unit is responsible for policy development, program design and implementation planning for issues related to determining financial eligibility for ODSP. It is also responsible for fraud control policy, information sharing, overpayments and appeals.
  #8  
Old 02-20-2006, 10:28 PM
jlalex jlalex is offline
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Thanks again Logicalvelocity..you are just a plethora of information!

Its a tricky situation to be sure..I just hope it can be resolved amicably..there is no need for it to get nasty..so heres to common sense and cool tempers prevailing.
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