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  • some separation questions

    brief history.
    Been together 5yrs while I was separated from a spouse, then married 5. Separated few yrs ago briefly and things improverd. Now she wants to end it. She is step parent to my two kids and more like the real parent as kids mom did virtually nothing and one child refuses to live with her mom as orrig there was joint/shared custody.
    Spouse says she wants to be fair and maintain relationship due to kids and were not hating eachother as things just changed for us and she wants to move on.

    she mentioned collaborative law. Right now I only want to negotiate with her (no lawyers)
    she brought $0 into relationship where I owned a home> she says she will honour what I had in home to start. We will see.

    From what I read she can be asked to support my kids financially? I won't do this unless she gets unreasonable.

    I have the right to delay dealing with property div for 6yrs or 2yrs after divorce =3yrs??? She wanted everything done very fast (within 2 months settled) Pay her off so she can take her cash and possessions and move on.
    I dont see that as if I can afford to buy her out, I need to arrange refinance etc along with agreement or worse case sell house or things get nasty and it drags on and on.

    Added side note, she had a great job paying well (60k+) decided to be self employed with promises etc of making same or more. I supported that and for two yrs she barely made 20-25k when we orrig contributed 50-50 to expenses and house and her contributions have been 50% less.

    looking forward to comments

  • #2
    When you married you became a full economic partnership and she became 50% owner of your home.

    If she is willing to do collaborative and respect the money you brought into the home she is being increadibly reasonable and good willed.

    If you start mentioning child support from her you are pushing your luck. You should be going after the bio-mother for child support first. If you are not doing that, or hadn't done that when you were married to your current STBX, then this is going to double the resentment.

    She does not automatically pay child support in the same way as if she were the bio-mum. Her obligation has to be established in court first. You have an argument for it, yes, and there is precedent but this is not a slam dunk.

    I recognize you are just checking in and thinking of options in the event that she ceases being co-operative. However you need to watch yourself if you want this to stay amicable. How much will save in legal fees with an amicable settlement, plus she is recognizing your contribution to the home and she is maintaining a positive relationship with the children.

    She will no doubt voluntarily be generous with them and take them places, buy them clothes and provide you with time away from them without you paying for a babysitter. This is all a cash value as well as gold in terms of the kids emotions.

    Ask her in a nice way how long she can do without the settlement from the house and see what she says; she is earning a decent wage and possibly can help you that way.

    You are confusing some things you read, you don't have "up to 6 years" to pay the settlement amount. After 6 years if no claim has been made then the parties are considered to have walked away from any claim, and it cannot be brought up in court. That she even had a verbal conversation with you about a claim for property has negated that time limit, the property claim has begun.

    Perhaps I am mistaking your tone, but from what you have written she is being quite reasonable and considerate and you are looking to find any advantage you can get? I suggest you do this nicely and save the legal fees.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Mess View Post
      When you married you became a full economic partnership and she became 50% owner of your home.

      If she is willing to do collaborative and respect the money you brought into the home she is being increadibly reasonable and good willed.

      If you start mentioning child support from her you are pushing your luck. You should be going after the bio-mother for child support first. If you are not doing that, or hadn't done that when you were married to your current STBX, then this is going to double the resentment.

      She does not automatically pay child support in the same way as if she were the bio-mum. Her obligation has to be established in court first. You have an argument for it, yes, and there is precedent but this is not a slam dunk.

      I recognize you are just checking in and thinking of options in the event that she ceases being co-operative. However you need to watch yourself if you want this to stay amicable. How much will save in legal fees with an amicable settlement, plus she is recognizing your contribution to the home and she is maintaining a positive relationship with the children.

      She will no doubt voluntarily be generous with them and take them places, buy them clothes and provide you with time away from them without you paying for a babysitter. This is all a cash value as well as gold in terms of the kids emotions.

      Ask her in a nice way how long she can do without the settlement from the house and see what she says; she is earning a decent wage and possibly can help you that way.

      You are confusing some things you read, you don't have "up to 6 years" to pay the settlement amount. After 6 years if no claim has been made then the parties are considered to have walked away from any claim, and it cannot be brought up in court. That she even had a verbal conversation with you about a claim for property has negated that time limit, the property claim has begun.

      Perhaps I am mistaking your tone, but from what you have written she is being quite reasonable and considerate and you are looking to find any advantage you can get? I suggest you do this nicely and save the legal fees.


      Thanx for response. Her goodwill as you put it will be seen when I actually hear what she asks for.
      The bio mom doesnt follow the agreement and it would cost me more $ to enforce then putting that $ towards my kids post secondary costs which bio mom refuses to help etc.
      I had my kids 50-50 prior to current spouse and we/her did all the parental things through yrs (parent teacher interviews,doctor appts etc)One child left bio mom permantly and dull time with us as sge ddoesnt get along. Current spouse is the real unofficial mom.

      As I said, no intention of her paying support but if she is unreasonable that option is there to inform her.

      Her rushing to settle will only work if totally amicable. She is the one who wants to consult lawyer. I will if need be.There is something on web site that stated the 6yrs but also stated 2yrs from a divorce judgment that sep agreement etc to be completed. I am willing to settle reasonably, otherwise I am comfortable with the settlement taking max time to get resolved amicably or not. Meaning I dont want hardball but if steered that way < ok. Im not looking for advantage just that she wants fast settlement and im fine with it if fair and she respects her promises. She doesnt have two kids to look after, I do and rather not spend legal $ when my kids are expensive with university etc and wont get $ from bio mom without a legal battle and she has no $
      Current spouses dilemma will be self employment earnings. She can make alot when things are good or 0. She has few months of cash avail now. But she will have 0 to pay towards house very quickly as her job is very slow currently and in last two yrs she has only contributed 50% of her normal amounts to our expenses and lifestyle.

      Comment


      • #4
        It's helpful to know ahead of time what each other;s strengths and weaknesses are.
        In my view strengths "you"
        1) She can be responsible for CS for two children and section 7 expenses plus post secondary. ( you have a strong argument)
        The stakes are a lot higher recently in the CS arena. Most kids are going post secondary 5 plus years now. There is a trend for the courts to force full CS until 25+ years old...yikes
        2) She may owe SS. If so for 5+years. ( how much did you earn in the last 3 years?

        In my view strengths her

        1) equity in your home she didn't contribute to. Between the two of you assets go down the middle.
        2) She may make claim for SS against you.
        3) Access to your pension ( do you have one)?

        Overall collaborative can be useful. Both parties have to be fairly psychologically stable for this to work. Collaborative law in essence is "negotiating in the shadow of a judge" However most women know the deck is stacked against men and fathers. DO NOT be aggressive or a$$@#$%%leish at this time. Overall you are not in a position of strength. The costs to litigate will be enormous( 50 k +) and the effect with the children will be devastating. It sounds like you have a great opportunity to peacefully split apart you have custody of your children and you can continue to support the relationship with the childrens step mother. Over all don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You are in a fine divorcing situation, rare actually. Try to avoid " penny wise pound foolish"

        Comment


        • #5
          I'm new here, so my advice may not hold as much water as others, but I have to say, she seems reasonable. If she's been good to your children all these years, it is in the childrens best interest to keep that relationship going. She may only make 25K now, but if that goes up (it prob will, the first few yrs of anyone self employed are spent building their business, it's not until the 4-6 yr bracket that they start to become financially successful), but when she does start to make more, it seems the children will benefit. In short, try to be amicable, don't bother with the small issues, oftentimes innocent actions are misconstrued in the heightened tension of divorce.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by staysingle View Post
            It's helpful to know ahead of time what each other;s strengths and weaknesses are.
            In my view strengths "you"
            1) She can be responsible for CS for two children and section 7 expenses plus post secondary. ( you have a strong argument)
            The stakes are a lot higher recently in the CS arena. Most kids are going post secondary 5 plus years now. There is a trend for the courts to force full CS until 25+ years old...yikes
            2) She may owe SS. If so for 5+years. ( how much did you earn in the last 3 years?

            In my view strengths her

            1) equity in your home she didn't contribute to. Between the two of you assets go down the middle.
            2) She may make claim for SS against you.
            3) Access to your pension ( do you have one)?

            Overall collaborative can be useful. Both parties have to be fairly psychologically stable for this to work. Collaborative law in essence is "negotiating in the shadow of a judge" However most women know the deck is stacked against men and fathers. DO NOT be aggressive or a$$@#$%%leish at this time. Overall you are not in a position of strength. The costs to litigate will be enormous( 50 k +) and the effect with the children will be devastating. It sounds like you have a great opportunity to peacefully split apart you have custody of your children and you can continue to support the relationship with the childrens step mother. Over all don't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. You are in a fine divorcing situation, rare actually. Try to avoid " penny wise pound foolish"

            Our wages were almost identical til she decided to work from home self employed and gain write offs etc. Yes I have read the info on step parent being finacially responsible and in this case its rock solid that she was the parent. Im not interested in making her responsible at all other then the kids and her remain close as they want that.
            Her promise or comment to kids and myself were she wants us to be able to keep house and she orrig said yrs back that orrig downpayment and what I had she would honour which includes 5yrs of pension.
            If that is honoured then we should be able to split amicably. My kids mom is nasty person and we were married for wrong reasons,,, too young etc and she was very amicable,,,,, but lawyers sometimes get into peoples heads. Hopefully not this case otherwise lawyers make the $ and each of us lose.


            Originally posted by High Road View Post
            I'm new here, so my advice may not hold as much water as others, but I have to say, she seems reasonable. If she's been good to your children all these years, it is in the childrens best interest to keep that relationship going. She may only make 25K now, but if that goes up (it prob will, the first few yrs of anyone self employed are spent building their business, it's not until the 4-6 yr bracket that they start to become financially successful), but when she does start to make more, it seems the children will benefit. In short, try to be amicable, don't bother with the small issues, oftentimes innocent actions are misconstrued in the heightened tension of divorce.
            Reasonable? When I hear what her view or expectations are will determin reasonable. I hope we negotiate together calmly. Her self employment business which she never could of started without my support. Her potential is to triple her income next yr and I dont get benefit from that? I dont want it but the last 3yrs were rocky and her contibution financially cost us alot with leaving a good paying job to start this which i thought would stregthen our marriage.NOT. It consumed her to 7day week 10-15hr days.

            all i want is my 5yrs pension and downpayments to house and think all else is easily done and a cheque to buy her out of the house. Nothing else but two vehicles to deal with which r not totally paid for, a bunch of house repairs needed which would affect value which we deduct off a value we determin. Appraisal is available but comparables been selling all around us to give fairly accurate numbers less realestate fees, and repairs. In the end a mutually negotiated deal is what i hope for without lawyers.

            Comment


            • #7
              Mutually negotiated deal

              I hear ya, it is the best, and you seem in a position to get that. I'm 13K into my lawyer so far,,,, and I still don't even have a court order.

              I've often said that divorce turns you into a person you don't want to be.

              Good luck to you and I wish the best for your children.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by High Road View Post
                I hear ya, it is the best, and you seem in a position to get that. I'm 13K into my lawyer so far,,,, and I still don't even have a court order.

                I've often said that divorce turns you into a person you don't want to be.

                Good luck to you and I wish the best for your children.

                Thanks. kids are older which probably is bit easier as they arent around as much (school,social lives,part time jobs)

                I will wait to see what her expectations are first and then I can examine and make a offer. I have no interest in fighting in court or using lawyers unless forced that way. Also in no rush. If we cant agree then maybe time will make each think clearer and negotiate. She wants a appraisal on house. That appraisal sometimes is higher then market value and doesnt mean we can get that price.Our place is nice but needs 10-15k of work to get max value or appraisal value. Housing prices according to latest article today (july12/11) states 12% drop in home values coming. If I want to buy her out,,,,, and I'd be shocked if we came to agreement fast,,,,better for me financially to see house prices drop if im buying her out. We are living separate in the house and expect her to pay 50% of mort,maintainance,living expenses. Is that wrong?
                One of my beefs is she made same take home $$ as I did. Stress of her job and boss,made her come to me asking if she can set on business up and potential to make mre then ever and improve marriage. Agreed and two yrs later and all our savings gone and her income went from almost 70k to 25k. This caused stress on me watching our slush fund go from 10-15k to 1k.
                Now she wants divorce and right away saying she will be looking for contract or full time again in her previous job and continue her business part time or whatever.
                If she doesnt approach things fairly,,,,I dont think im being nasty by slowing things down completly and let this take a few yrs to settle and if she decides to leave house and not pay towards it,,,,,it hurts her. If anything the mortg and loans would be paid off in full by both or me only if she doesnt earn $$ or get another job.

                My first ex was immature and young but we settled without lawyers with two infants and did our own agreement. Cost $900 total for paralegal to do divorce and all assets we negotiated on own and shared custody. Has worked for most part 13yrs approx. Hope this can copy previous. Rather not pay the 2-5k each for collaborative or worse $$$$ when it is possible to negotiate.

                Opinions?

                Comment


                • #9
                  You'll have to check some case law, but she may be entitled to half the value of thehome as ofthe date of separation. In my case, it took me months to get financially disentangled from my marriage, and courdn't get a mortgage until then, in that time the market value of the marital home went up and up, my ex wanted half of the equity created in the interim, I said no. In the end, he took half of the equity of the value of the home as of the date we separated.

                  Comment

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