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  • Angry Ex Issues

    Hi everyone.

    So on and off, I've been having issues with my daughter having crying jags over her father's anger management problems. He's literally constantly screaming at her.

    Its hard to explain these screaming fits he has. I've been at the mercy of them before. Its hours and hours of screaming at the top of his lungs. It often involves name-calling, blame for things you aren't responsible for and a lot of irrationality. And he won't stop. And he's doing this to a kid...sometimes when she's in the car and is totally captive.

    I've been trying really hard to put it into perspective and trying to figure out if its just regular discipline or its crossing a line. I've definitely come to the latter conclusion and the behavior is escalating. I've sent him notes about it and told him that if it continues I will seek a change in the parenting time.

    My daughter isn't a difficult kid...in fact, its hard to find fault with her except for she's sometimes lazy with her dishes. She has always been an honor roll student, she is quiet, affectionate, funny, happy, cleans her room and does what she's told to do. I never have to tell her to do homework or to go to bed...she's manages herself. She is well liked by everyone including all her teachers. She's a model child. I cannot understand why anyone needs to scream at her about anything. In fact, I'm getting increasingly infuriated by it because she's strong but a teenager and, in my opinion, its abusive because she has no defense against it.

    The latest incident happened this weekend when we were out of town. We were talking about university since she's planning to start studying for ACTs/SATs after the xmas break. Suddenly she bursts into tears mid-conversation and tells me that she's afraid of her dad because he's planning to move away with her when she's done high school and she's petrified to tell him that she doesn't want to do that because he'll freak out on her. Under no circumstances does she want to live with him full-time and she has no interest in going to the university he's suggesting. He didn't even ask her opinion...he told her that what's going to happen and freaked out on her when she started saying it wasn't what she wanted.

    It took me over an hour to calm her down.

    So, in a nutshell, I've had enough. I've asked her several times in the past if she'd like me to take any action...ie, change the custody order so she has the power to decide when she wants to see her dad...or ask the court to order parenting classes...or even just to get her a therapist or counselor at school so she has someone to talk to besides me (since I'm compromised). She hasn't taken me up on anything yet over the last 3 years but this weekend, she agreed that something needs to happen because she's lying to her dad to try to placate him and is afraid of him. I feel guilty too like I'm not protecting her because I'm trying to be reasonable and not damage the relationship she has with her father but I also have an obligation not to let her get verbally abused.

    So far, I'm considering making an appointment with my lawyer after the holidays to go in and change the custody order. I already have sole custody but I want to make visitation more flexible so that she can decide when she wants to see her dad rather than to be at his mercy. That way, she can tell him the truth about university and the fact that she doesn't want to live with him full-time, by phone and won't be forced to go over to see him until he has time to calm down. Also, if he has a yelling fit, I can come over to pick her up (we only live a mile apart).

    So much of this is about him trying to get revenge on me. He's become increasingly angrier and more bitter...especially since I'm very happily in a new relationship and my daughter has trouble hiding that she's close to my partner.

    If anyone has any suggestions on what actions I should take, I'd be glad to hear them. (and very sorry for the long post)

  • #2
    I can see where this puts you in a bit of a pickle, caught between not wanting to disparage her father and also wanting to protect and comfort her. Since he is so difficult to talk to in person, would your daughter be able to write him a heartfelt letter letting him know that she loves him and needs him, but that his angry behavior is hurting her and their relationship? If she is close to college age, she may be able to articulate her feelings on paper.

    Tough situation, hope things get better.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would file for a change in custody based on what you've said... In a second. Don't be scared of bullies....

      Even if it "fails" it will be a wake up call.

      I brought up the abusive behaviour of my ex in court recently and while I still don't know the answer conclusion my ex is much more careful I feel and i at least continued the paper trail.

      Comment


      • #4
        I can see where this puts you in a bit of a pickle, caught between not wanting to disparage her father and also wanting to protect and comfort her. Since he is so difficult to talk to in person, would your daughter be able to write him a heartfelt letter letting him know that she loves him and needs him, but that his angry behavior is hurting her and their relationship? If she is close to college age, she may be able to articulate her feelings on paper.

        Tough situation, hope things get better.
        Thank you!

        He's not a letter kind of guy. In fact, he's not reasonable in any way.

        If you criticize him, he'll find a way to blame whatever he did on you because he's never at fault for any situation...ever. According to him, he's a great father. (classic narcissist, in my opinion).

        Let me also say that we have two daughters...he did this stuff with the oldest one too. As she got to be a teenager and challenged him, he'd freak out on her. The last time I witnessed it happen, I was sleeping on a weekend morning and was awoken to him calling her a stupid B word. I flipped out and told him that if he ever talked to her that way again, that he was out. He, of course, blamed it on her. She moved out on her own during the divorce when she finished university and they had a couple arguments that I wasn't privy to that resulted in her not seeing him ever since. She hasn't seen him in years and doesn't even bring him up anymore. So there is a history of behavior that extends past our youngest daughter.

        He's also had 5 lawyers during our marital dissolution. The second one he threatened apparently to the point that the guy told him that he'd wipe the bill he had with him but if he ever came near his office again, that they'd call the police. And the one before the one he has now, told me during a 3-way with my lawyer (was supposed to be a 4-way but my ex said he wouldn't be in the same room with my B-word lawyer) that my ex was absolutely crazy. This is his own lawyer calling him crazy...not mine.

        This isn't a guy you can talk to or reason with...trust me on that. And when I was married to him he was a little more normal...since the divorce, I think he's gone off the deep end. He's a control freak...and when he perceives that he's losing control, he gets worse. So anything my daughter says will cause him to think that he's losing control and that she's going to act against his best interest and he'll retaliate.

        I'm actually more worried about this than I can say. I'm seriously concerned about his mental stability once he figures out that his plan isn't going to happen. Of course, I'm a bit paranoid with safety issues for my kids so I'm trying not to be over the top but I also know my ex is far worse than he used to be and I'm really not certain what he will and won't do. That's why I think I need to make a safe arrangement for my daughter where he won't have her in his care when she tells him the truth where he can act with impunity.

        Even if it "fails" it will be a wake up call.

        I brought up the abusive behaviour of my ex in court recently and while I still don't know the answer conclusion my ex is much more careful I feel and i at least continued the paper trail.
        Thank you and its a good point.

        There was a previous incident where my daughter came to my house in the morning so upset that I had to keep her home from school after a scene with her dad.

        I ended up sending him an email and simply telling him that there was a difference between discipline and verbal abuse and I felt he was crossing a line. And if he kept it up, I would have to take legal action.

        He fired back this email calling me every bad word you can think of and telling me to shove it. I copied the email to my lawyer (so that he could see) and repeated that he needed to watch his behavior or we'd be in court. And for a while, things did seem to calm down.

        I just hate seeing my kid afraid of her own dad. And she's constantly having to omit things or lie to him so that he doesn't flip out on her. That's no way for her to have to live. I think you're right and its just time to change the parental visitation schedule so she's in control of where she spends her time. She's old enough to decide that anyway.

        Comment


        • #5
          Just as food for thought (and yes, I realize it is her Dad), but would you let a boyfriend treat her that way or would you do whatever you could to provide her with guidance and support?? Would you step in and "take care of things" if needed??

          I don't see this as much different. I think it is hard not to overstep with the other parent but, for me, the effect would be even worse than a boyfriend because he is her DAD. He is supposed to love and protect her. This crosses that line for me.

          I would seek legal help and get her a counsellor.

          No one deserves to be treated that way.
          Last edited by SadAndTired; 12-22-2015, 01:52 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by SadAndTired View Post
            Just as food for thought (and yes, I realize it is her Dad), but would you let a boyfriend treat her that way or would you do whatever you could to provide her with guidance and support?? Would you step in and "take care of things" if needed??

            I don't see this as much different. I think it is hard not to overstep with the other parent but, for me, the effect would be even worse than a boyfriend because he is her DAD. He is supposed to love and protect her. This crosses that line for me.

            I would seek legal help and get her a counsellor.

            No one deserves to be treated that way.
            Agreed, great post. Sometimes we have to remove the title from the person in order to gauge whether their behavior is appropriate. IMO, the standard should be HIGHER for a parent than anyone else, and unfortunately I think sometimes we make exceptions on what we deem acceptable because they are a parent.

            PH, I can't remember how old your daughter is but an older teen I assume as she is contemplating college/university. She really doesn't need a court to decide custody/access for her - at this point she could walk away from both of you and decide to live on her own. From a dealing with the ex perspective, it would be easier if it was set out on paper by a judge that he is forced to respect.

            Comment


            • #7
              Just as food for thought (and yes, I realize it is her Dad), but would you let a boyfriend treat her that way or would you do whatever you could to provide her with guidance and support?? Would you step in and "take care of things" if needed??

              I don't see this as much different. I think it is hard not to overstep with the other parent but, for me, the effect would be even worse than a boyfriend because he is her DAD. He is supposed to love and protect her. This crosses that line for me.

              I would seek legal help and get her a counsellor.

              No one deserves to be treated that way.
              Very true. I have had more than one conversation with her about what constitutes verbal and emotional abuse and how that is never ok to tolerate from anyone.

              At this point, I'm not going to justify that I haven't taken action because I feel guilty enough. Only to say that my thinking previously was that I didn't want to "take over"...I wanted to provide her with options, give her as much as a judgement-free zone as I could to discuss the issue without leaping to the automatic conclusion that her dad (who she loves) is an unfit parent and to give her the control rather than making decisions for her because she is a teenager. I wanted her to make the decision about her relationship with her dad and was really resisting stepping in and doing it for her. Kids have a right to relationships with both parents, barring abuse situations, and I didn't want to leap to the conclusion that this was abuse....but I'm pretty much there now.

              I've been walking a line that I probably should have crossed by now. And frankly, what I'm really afraid of is that there's more going on than she's telling me. If she's omitting telling him things...she may also be omitting telling me things.

              I really appreciate you guys validating that I'm probably not over-reacting and that I need to make an appointment with my lawyer for after the holidays.

              Funny enough, my lawyer mentioned to me over a year ago that she was pretty certain that I'd be back in her office at some point requesting a parenting schedule change because of his personality type.

              Comment


              • #8
                I concur with others.
                It's all very well to attempt to rationale his behaviour (he is possibly extra-anxious about this daughter following the same path as older one) but it seems to me that you have to do what your gut is telling you.

                My ex was/is a screamer too. They don't change.

                Your sad story reminds me of the years of screaming my son had to put up with from his father. To this day they talk on the phone once or twice a year. That's it.

                Your ex is his own worst enemy. Do what you have to do.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I am now tending to agree with other posters that a more assertive approach is needed. Reading more of how she and your other daughter are/were treated makes me feel sad and angry on their behalf. Forget the sweet heartfelt letter I advised earlier, tell him to shape up or else. Sounds like she has put up with enough.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    PH, please don't beat yourself about this. You are not to blame for his behaviour. I was posting quickly but I hope there was no harshness or judgement to my post. Just a different way of viewing things.

                    I also think that you have been respecting what your daughter asked of you. You have offered intervention in the past, she has refused.

                    Now she is accepting/asking for your help. Imagine the relief for her when you say "it is okay. I got this for you. "

                    Take reassurance that your daughter was open enough to talk to you. You are doing a much better job than you realize.

                    It will likely be a tough go. Hugs and stay strong.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm on the same page as the other's also. Sure seems like verbal/emotional abuse and it may require intervention before damage is done.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        PH, I can't remember how old your daughter is but an older teen I assume as she is contemplating college/university. She really doesn't need a court to decide custody/access for her - at this point she could walk away from both of you and decide to live on her own. From a dealing with the ex perspective, it would be easier if it was set out on paper by a judge that he is forced to respect.
                        She just turned 16. I realize that she can decide just not to go over there but since she's under 18, I'll probably still have to get a court order or else he'll be calling the cops to my door every other day and she doesn't need that stress. I'm trying to minimize the tug-of-war that she's trying to negotiate between warring parents.

                        What was odd about this past weekend was that usually when we talk about her issues with her dad, I try to lay out all the options to her, explain what each would entail and then tell her to think about it and decide how she wants to proceed. What generally happens is that things will maybe calm down a bit (i think) and she has never really made a decision. The last 2 incidences where she's gotten a little teary eyed (and she's not a crier) have been within the last 3 months which is an escalation and this last 3rd incident, she was full-out panicked to the point where when I asked her if she just wanted to me to do something...she took a second and then nodded her head...that's new. Usually she says she doesn't want me to do anything now but she'll think about it.

                        Also, if I get a court order and its on paper, he's more likely to behave and it may improve their relationship for the long-term because he'll know he can't just do anything he wants while she's in his care. I just don't see any other options and I'm not going to sit idly by any longer while he verbally abuses our child. I'm already kicking myself that I may not have taken this seriously enough. Its really tough when you're trying to give the other parent the benefit of the doubt and not be nosy about their discipline methods on their parenting time.

                        My instincts are just screaming that he's behavior is getting to the point where she can't handle it anymore. And again, it wouldn't be out of his historical character.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Seriously from the bottom of my heart...thank you everyone for the excellent thoughts and advice.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            You are correct, she can just stop going, but as you said having it written down alleviates some of the pressure from her.

                            Part of the challenge when they're this age is we want to encourage them to make their own decisions based on how they feel not us. But eventually they will find themselves in a situation they may not be ready to handle emotionally and be torn - so we've got to step in and be the parent and make the decision for them. not to be mean, not to usurp their independence, but because they do still need to be protected sometimes.

                            You're on the right track, PH

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sorry to hear about this - it sounds miserable for your daughter. It also sounds like Dad is never going to be able to have a satisfactory relationship with his kids unless he understands that they're separate people from him with separate wishes and intentions, which isn't going to happen any time soon (based on how long this has been going on, and experience with older daughter).

                              Maybe the best thing you can do is to just be there for your daughter as she goes through the inevitable process of pulling away from a bullying and explosive parent for her own sanity's sake. She's turning into an adult, and as an adult she will be able to choose how much distance she will maintain from him. She won't have to be a scared child forever.

                              It sounds like you've given him every benefit of the doubt and been mindful of not imposing your standards on his parenting time or turning your daughter against him - and he's blown through it. Maybe court really is the best thing to help your daughter move forward into adulthood.

                              Comment

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