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  • #16
    trueblue

    I understand your desire to just 'give up' - I have heard those words from my current SO many time ... but what he always says in the end is "I love my kids too much to just give up, and let her take us away from each other"

    I don't know if there is ever one right answer in cases like yours ... it makes me so very sad to hear stories such as yours - and in fact, like ours (in my new, hybrid family!)

    I wish so much that parents who play these types of games with their children would see what they are doing to these kids.

    I don't really have any advice to offer, but just know that you are not alone, others have been through very similar situations.

    In our case an interim motion was filed opposing her move 2 hours away, and we won it - she was required to remain in the region, and our time with the kids was not reduced. When PMs are back up, message me, and I will give you more detail.

    In the meantime, just love your kids, that's what you do best ... the rest will work out the way it was meant to in the end.

    Comment


    • #17
      Often a mobility case can be won if in litigation the judge can be convinced that the move can be avoided. In my case, one of the critical components that aided in the judge's decision was when my former spouse was asked the following during cross examination:

      "If the court rules against you and says that your son's mobility is restricted, would you be prepared to move away without him?"

      Few parents (if any at all) are prepared to answer "yes" to that question...

      Comment


      • #18
        Another recent authority on mobilty rights

        http://www.canlii.org/bc/cas/bcsc/2006/2006bcsc469.html

        Calinski v. Calinski, 2006 BCSC 469

        IN THE SUPREME COURT OF BRITISH COLUMBIA
        Date: 2006-03-22
        Docket: E021995

        LV

        Comment


        • #19
          thank you everyone

          It is very hard to make an emotional choice that may last your childrens lifetime. Do you have a strained relationship with the other parent here and tear the shildrens loalties to shreds or do you hope that by compromising and allowing the move in good faith that you will be respected as needed in the childrens lives and recognised/ promoted as DAD. iT IS A HUGE GAMBLE AND 4 DAYS A MONTH IS VERY LITTLE COMPARED TO ALMOST EVERYDAY.

          What to do, what to do...this has already cost dearly in all ways. I don't like many of the options and a trial is a crap shoot(and could cost another 100,000.00) money and souls...thats the currency.


          When An Angel Smiles

          I came across something not seen in a while
          That something was a snapshot of my Angel's smile
          It's etched forever in my heart and tatooed on my brain
          A fleeting glimpse of joyfulness; I yearn to see again

          I knew she loved me; I knew it from the start
          I never thought she'd be kept from me in a family torn apart

          Her smile was like a rainbow turned upside down
          Sunlight thru the window on her inverted frown
          It bounced around the room,flying here and there
          I knew in an instant that smile was meant to share

          It was like a big balloon,that popped in the air
          Filled with tiny sparkles, that landed everywhere
          All the children in the room just had to stop and stare
          At this spectacle of wonder like at a county fair

          Tears would then fall down my face,too much for me to take
          A waterfall of saltiness,enough to fill a lake
          Quickly,I had to look away from this stunning show of glee
          Cuz it was spreading rapidly beyond just her and me

          She unlocked that smile and happily set it free
          Yes time, it stood still for an.. eternity
          This fleeting show of happiness,my little girl just had
          Was caused by nothing other than.....a moment with her Dad!!!

          OCT17/2004

          Comment


          • #20
            trueblue wrote on another thread, but makes more sense to respond here (and it will only make sense to him)

            I have seen and felt the bias in the court system. My suggestion above was tried out with a panel of well seasoned family law lawyers at a big firm. They weren't told by my lawyer why the litigants names were blocked out.Guess what !....they opined unanimously in my favour in every respect regarding the 4 big divorce issues.... At the end of a 3 hour panel discussion, my lawyer then told them the person they favoured on the issues was actually a Dad/Husband . I was billed 3,600.00 for this exercise. But it confirmed my lawyers thinking and opened my eye. It was probably money well spent

            In merely minutes all bets were off...they were no longer unanimous and it was back to depends on who the judge is and that particular justices discretion who may preside.blah blah...ash covering


            That was an interest approach your law firm took and a costly one for you as well. So seems from other posts and e-mails that your trying to decide to throw in the towel??? You do mirror "Ben" so much. And if she has a "Waldin" lawyer you might be fighting this out until the children are no longer "children of the marriage". Don't mean to sound so discouraging when you are so down yourself, but sometimes a Judge will rule a final order and it will get appealed or taken back to court to be changed again.

            So what is your gut telling you to do??? What does your lawyer advise you to do?

            Comment


            • #21
              trueblue,

              You have come to far to give up. Your children are worth it. It is their right to have a meaningful relationship with both parent's.

              I have to ask, what is your ex's reason for moving? As you mentioned, you did bounce gordon v. goertz of them and stalled the move.

              LV

              Comment


              • #22
                Grace

                My gut instinct seems to change 10 times a day depending on if our kids are with me or with Mom. So my guts or whats left of them aren't reliable. My heart says to fight for them until the cows come home . My mind says this is has been a waste of time and resources that has deprived our kids and family in so many ways now and in the future.
                My lawyer is willing to go the distance as long as the bills continue to be paid and the letter writing and threats continue from both sides. Last week a case management judge was appointed by chief justice to keep an I on the shenanigans and move things along.

                I have little control or say it seems, but the time has come for some decisions to be made either by me or for me.

                Grace I don't want to end up a Ben Gordon

                Comment


                • #23
                  Lv

                  I HAVE TRIED MY BEST....i WAS TOLD A CHAMPION GETS UP EVEN WHEN HE'SHE CAN'T.

                  my ex has a boyfriend she wants to mold our kids into a new family unit in his city.

                  Yet I pray and fight and delay and bob and weeve and man I am tired.

                  You are great Lv ...help me find a way to either keeop them here or stay involved with some kind of schedule alowing the 1 1/4 hour moveaway

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Trueblue,

                    To me, your ex has focused on her best interest rather than the children. It doesn't appear at all that it is a fundamental employment reason. Read that Yukon territory case I posted. The reason is everything in mobility cases and how it will effect the best interest of the children.

                    If your ex' bf is really interested in your ex, why doesn't he move to the city where the children have a solid foundation roots, schooling, perhaps extended family. This way there would be NO disruption to the children at all.

                    You are very child centered and focused on your children to offer 1/2 the traveling as a resolution.

                    You already have the material change. The move in itself is considered this. You could have the custody of the children reviewed, ie: primary live with you and your ex could exercise the children's access.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I don't want you to end up a Ben either.

                      OK, so your gut instinct is not functioning right now, that is completely understandable. And from your previous posts and our e-mails you have a "Pole" lawyer right? Stick with your reputable lawyer, the good ones aren't out for the money, they have enough clients they don't need to milk the existing ones for money for the sake of it. They also have a better reputation with the Judges. The Judges know the "Waldin" tricks although that may be no comfort too you right now and sometimes they do get before a Judge and "win".

                      Good news from you post is that a Judge is trying to move this along. Hopefully this may make this come to a resolution which seems in your case both you and your family desperately need. Speaking from personal experience a particular Judge towards the end assured me she would personally see that we got on the trial schedule for this spring and actually kept her word. We were in another court arguing a motion, and were late for a trial scheduling and so all parties agreed to reschedule the trial scheduling and the Judge sent word back, NO I will wait for you even if I have to keep the court open for you. So Trueblue this could be good news for you to finally come to a resolution, in a timely matter. Yes, it is a crap shoot litigating in family court, and what ever the outcome, I hope you have resolution.

                      One of the best things my lawyer ever told me was, "don't feel the need to stay strong, that is our job and is what we are being paid for, let us do our job". I hope you feel the same way about your lawyer, have faith.

                      My prayers are with you,
                      Grace

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Grace

                        Thank you for your longtime guidance and prayers.
                        I just want to do what is right for my kids but not become a martyr in the process.

                        My lawyer has hinted it could be a 2 week trial and an additional 100 thousand dollars from here to the end. Whose money am I spending to cover this and are we just getting milked dry. I have little strength for a long drawn out trial.

                        Just because my ex was not getting her emotional needs met while she was with me doesn't mean she isn't a great parent. But all the tactics deployed during this litigation is sure convincing me, that she is putting herself way ahead of our kids needs, I think she could have gotten more of what she wanted in a much different way had she stuck with collaboration and not went down the low road, but maybe she feared I would go for sole and succeed. When 2 parents love their children so much what has to happen when they can't be shared. I just couldn't do the ugly affidavit thing or the false allegation stuff(don't you really have to hate someone to destroy them like that)
                        WHAT TO DO ???? WHAT TO DO???

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          trueblue:

                          You have to do what you feel in your heart is best. There is no perfect answer to the challenge you and your kids are facing right now. It might be that you choose to accept the path of least resistance because it might bring some peace to your kids and if that is the choice you make, you are not a bad parent because of it.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Follow your heart. And remember that less than 3% of family law litigation ends up in a full blown trial. I don't know how the trial scheduling works in your area, but I would push for the trial as soon as possible and hope that you are part of the 97% that comes to an agreement beforehand, many times on the courtroom steps. This hopefully will give you resolution and the peace that you and your family so desperately need.

                            If the trial is estimated for you at $100,000. her fees may be equal to your. Hmmmmmm, new Beamers for the lawyers , no college fund for the kids .

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Another mobility case - went all the way to O.C.A -

                              http://www.ontariocourts.on.ca/decis...oungC38953.htm

                              Young v. Young - 2003 appeal allowed

                              Paragraph 23

                              [23] In my view, the application judge made four interrelated errors, which, taken together, undermine his order permitting the move. First, in allowing the move, he focused almost entirely on Ms. Young's job in Cornwall and, therefore, failed to undertake the "full and sensitive inquiry" required by Gordon v. Goertz. Second, he especially failed to take into account the disruption to the children, which would be caused by removing them from the family, schools and community they had come to know. Third, in treating Ms. Young as the de facto custodial parent and Mr. Young as the access parent instead of what they were - joint custodial parents - the application judge misapprehended the parenting arrangement that existed before Ms. Young's application. Finally, the application judge failed to consider the independent assessment of Dr. Leonoff, who had written a thorough report on the best interests of the children in June 2001.

                              Paragraph 30, 31 and 32

                              3. Misapprehension of the parenting arrangement


                              [30] The application judge's reasons show that he took the existing parenting arrangement before Ms. Young's application to be that embodied in the order of Robertson J. dated July 15, 1999. Under that order, although the children lived primarily with Ms. Young, they also lived with Mr. Young over 40 per cent of the time. Nonetheless, the application judge treated Mr. Young as an access parent. Therefore, when he considered the effect of the move to Cornwall on Mr. Young's time with the children, the applications judge focused on whether Mr. Young would continue to have "liberal and generous access".

                              [31] The problem with the application judge's approach was that the order of Robertson J. was superseded by the partial minutes of settlement agreed to by the parties two years ago, in December 2001. The application judge does not refer to these minutes in his reasons. Yet, under the minutes of settlement, Mr. Young is not an access parent, but a joint custodial parent. And, although the amount of time he cares for the three boys is roughly the same as it was under Robertson J.'s order, the nature of that time is quite different. Under the minutes of settlement, during the school year, Mr. Young has day-to-day care of the children for four weekdays in every two-week period.

                              32] The application judge's misapprehension of the existing parenting arrangement has significant consequences for two of the other considerations listed in Gordon v. Goertz at 342: "the existing custody arrangement and the relationship between the child and the custodial parent" and "the desirability of maximizing contact between the child and both parents". The record discloses that Mr. Young is a good father, and with the help of his parents, has admirably carried out his responsibilities as a custodial parent. One effect of granting Ms. Young permission to move to Cornwall with the children is to remove Mr. Young as a custodial parent, and thus to undermine the co-parenting arrangement reflected in the minutes of settlement. In practice, Mr. Young will become an access parent and the children will no longer benefit from his co-parenting. This consideration should have been factored into the assessment of whether the move to Cornwall was in the children's best interests.

                              LV

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Another mobility case - international - Halifax to United Arab Emirates

                                Court held that it was in the best interest of the child to remain in Halifax
                                Child support waived for the non custodial parent in lieu of access travel

                                Saunders v. Saunders 2005

                                gordon v. goertz test appled.

                                http://www.canlii.org/ns/cas/nssf/2005/2005nssf10.html

                                LV

                                Comment

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