Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Financial Issues

Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-03-2012, 06:38 PM
Dad07411 Dad07411 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11
Dad07411 is on a distinguished road
Default Spouse refuses to work

Great forum, I was hoping for some thoughts and advice on my situation, I couldn't find one exactly like mine.

My ex and I separated in 2010 and she is university educated can earn $75,000 a year but she refuses to work. Our separation agreement states she must use best efforts to find work. She hasn't applied for any work at all, I sent her three emails with job postings to help her find work and she had her lawyer send me a note to stop harassing her and to stop all communication.

She won't grant my divorce and she is asking for more money and our situation has progressed to going to court to settle this problem.

She claims sexual abuse from her step father 35 years ago and she started to seek counseling in March 2011. Now she claims this is the reason she can no longer work. it is true and it is very sad, the good news was the step father pleaded guilty so she didn't have to testify in court. This finished in the summer of 2011.

During our marriage we both worked full time and equally spent time raising two kids, we have shared custody. I was able to have $20k imputed to her however she receives so much child support and spousal support she doesnt need to work at all and can live very comfortably. Now she wants to re-train from her 25 year career to become a social worker which she has started full time school in January 2012 paid for by Ontario government, so all your tax dollars too. Once completed she may make $35,000 which to me doesn't seem like a reasonable plan, she is asking to take 3 years to complete the program full time.

My two questions are as follows.
Does anyone know how to specifically show in court that earning half your salary is not reasonable? I searched CanLii and didnt find anything close to my situation.

I feel like I am paying for the step fathers crime, she won't work because of the trauma of the event. I have much higher child support, section 7 and spousal support payments. This means that I can't save for the kids university or get my life improved financially as well. Does anyone have and legal advise or thoughts about this, it seems to me she should sue her step father for lost income and the court should impute the full $75,000 she is capable of earning.

I should also point out that she volunteers at the kids school, is an active member of toastmasters holding the position of vice president of recruitment, is a board member for a local not for profit company that has about $10million in annual revenue so this is not a small job. She also arranged the annual golf tournament for 300 people. Managed a major $35,000 house upgrade with multiple contractors and Suppliers. also, she owns her own small business and has been running this company to cover all her expenses to write off her mortgage, gas, car, etc. however she only makes $9,000 a year now on tax returns. Also, she was had time to arrange 8 vacations for a week or two over the last 3years.

Tanks in advance everyone. Great forum!
  #2  
Old 11-03-2012, 08:32 PM
FaithandMorals FaithandMorals is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 308
FaithandMorals is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dad07411 View Post
My ex and I separated in 2010 and she is university educated can earn $75,000 a year but she refuses to work. Our separation agreement states she must use best efforts to find work. She hasn't applied for any work at all, I sent her three emails with job postings to help her find work and she had her lawyer send me a note to stop harassing her and to stop all communication.

She won't grant my divorce and she is asking for more money and our situation has progressed to going to court to settle this problem.

She claims sexual abuse from her step father 35 years ago and she started to seek counseling in March 2011. Now she claims this is the reason she can no longer work. it is true and it is very sad, the good news was the step father pleaded guilty so she didn't have to testify in court. This finished in the summer of 2011.

During our marriage we both worked full time and equally spent time raising two kids, we have shared custody. I was able to have $20k imputed to her however she receives so much child support and spousal support she doesnt need to work at all and can live very comfortably. Now she wants to re-train from her 25 year career to become a social worker which she has started full time school in January 2012 paid for by Ontario government, so all your tax dollars too. Once completed she may make $35,000 which to me doesn't seem like a reasonable plan, she is asking to take 3 years to complete the program full time.

My two questions are as follows.
Does anyone know how to specifically show in court that earning half your salary is not reasonable? I searched CanLii and didnt find anything close to my situation.

I feel like I am paying for the step fathers crime, she won't work because of the trauma of the event. I have much higher child support, section 7 and spousal support payments. This means that I can't save for the kids university or get my life improved financially as well. Does anyone have and legal advise or thoughts about this, it seems to me she should sue her step father for lost income and the court should impute the full $75,000 she is capable of earning.

I should also point out that she volunteers at the kids school, is an active member of toastmasters holding the position of vice president of recruitment, is a board member for a local not for profit company that has about $10million in annual revenue so this is not a small job. She also arranged the annual golf tournament for 300 people. Managed a major $35,000 house upgrade with multiple contractors and Suppliers. also, she owns her own small business and has been running this company to cover all her expenses to write off her mortgage, gas, car, etc. however she only makes $9,000 a year now on tax returns. Also, she was had time to arrange 8 vacations for a week or two over the last 3years.

Tanks in advance everyone. Great forum!
When was your SA completed? DId you use lawyers? When did she last earn $75K? How long were you together? On what basis is she asking for more money? How is she paying for the difference between $20K and $9K? What province are you in? How much do you earn in comparison?
  #3  
Old 11-03-2012, 09:51 PM
Dad07411 Dad07411 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11
Dad07411 is on a distinguished road
Default

Agreement was signed Jan 2010, we both had lawyers and we use mediation to work out the details. She earned 75,000 in 2007 and started her home business as an independent sales executive. I make $200,000 so she gets a large amount of support given the differences in salary. In 2007 I made about $90k and she made $75. We both worked for most of our careers making almost the amount It wasn't until 2008 when I started to earn more. She has her own business so she can write off many expenses so on her income tax it looks like she is making $9k. The imputed amount of $20k was set by the mediator, I thought it was unfair, so she agreed to find full time work with best efforts starting in march 2010 written into the agreement. Well she didn't look for work at all, she does her own personal things and is now in school. When I filed for the divorce she contested it asking for more money because she's in school and wants more money. Note, school started January 2012. We are located in Ontario.
Thanks
  #4  
Old 11-03-2012, 11:37 PM
ddol1 ddol1 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Kingston, ON
Posts: 968
ddol1 is on a distinguished road
Default

Just a fair comment - as the last poster pointed out you need to add the correct details to command a resonable response. For starters how long were you together incl before you were married. Nobody willl care about 2007 and 2010 - your answers will come from what about on the day of your seperation or better called your valuation date (seperation comes later) and as or more important what are your incomes today if you were standing in front of the court..... this is what they will go by.

20K sucks - do searches here and you would find that is the common amount to impute - you can go to the effort of determining the income she is trained for and bring so much cogent evidence to that fact for it to be even looked at given your ex is not bound to get her old job back or her old pay - only that she try to find full time self supporting work. If she wants to go to school you may not have any say in it (you are no longer married!) but think of it as the only recourse the court has is to impute income.... question is how much?? think about the basic details you are not putting in your posts..... and you will get more specific help.
  #5  
Old 11-04-2012, 07:21 AM
murphyslaw murphyslaw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: 2 miles south, of the middle of nowhere
Posts: 500
murphyslaw is on a distinguished road
Default

Wouldn’t give up so easily.Many men have gone down the route of underemployment or going back to school to dodge support -CAN LI is where you need to search.Those cases could help you with dealing your situation.
  #6  
Old 11-04-2012, 07:26 AM
Dad07411 Dad07411 is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 11
Dad07411 is on a distinguished road
Default

Ddol1,
We were married for 16 years and 8 months and lived together for a year before. Our valuation date was June 2009. Also, I did send her one job for $80k, she applied for the position and received a email that she qualified for the job as she had so much experience, my ex sent me a copy of the email communication, that's how I know. Then she didn't show up for the interview. In total I sent her over 40 job postings from $60k to $100k and she didnt apply to any of them. It will go in my brief, not sure if a judge would take that as good evidence for imputing income.

She is claiming Post Tramatic Stress Disorder however, it's from a social worker with a Masters degree. There is no doctors evidence, she claims that it is better now as I volunteered to look after the kids full time until she was better. The letter also supports switching from sales to a lower earning salary to be a social worker, there is no comment why that would be better other than personal interest in my opinion. Im sure if I left my job to be a social worker for $40k, she would complain.

If she does have emotional illness does that mean she can do all her own things and go to school full time, but just not work? Seems unfair. Seems to me there must be victims of sexual abuse that get treatment support and still have to make a living.

So, how do you prove to a court She can earn a higher income and switching jobs is not reasonable? It would appear a need to higher a job expert and a doctor to get further expert evidence. What about the crime of her step father, should I be liable to pay more because of his actions 35 years ago?

Let me know if there is something else missing I was trying to be brief.
  #7  
Old 11-04-2012, 09:59 AM
billm's Avatar
billm billm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,431
billm is on a distinguished road
Default

I would not concern yourself about her income regarding CS calculation.

Just use actual incomes for that. It seems she may not be realistically reporting her self employment income, so you should make sure it is grossed up to a T4 equivalent.

As for SS, her decisions to change careers is your concern. SS should be based on her earning potential and what happened in the marriage. During the marriage your incomes were close, so SS entitlement seems unfair.

Why do you make so much more now though?

At the least SS should be based on your actual salary and her potential salary.

Her issues with her past should not be relevant in my opinion, especially considering her high amount of volunteer and self employed work, and that she worked full time during the marriage.

If you had the kids full time, did you stop paying CS during that time and have her pay you?
  #8  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:13 AM
Rioe's Avatar
Rioe Rioe is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 3,347
Rioe will become famous soon enough
Default

Why would anyone with PTSD from being sexually abused want to switch from being in sales to being a social worker? Both are stressful, and I'd think in the new position they would be more likely to encounter triggers for the PTSD!
  #9  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:25 AM
murphyslaw murphyslaw is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: 2 miles south, of the middle of nowhere
Posts: 500
murphyslaw is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
Why would anyone with PTSD from being sexually abused want to switch from being in sales to being a social worker? Both are stressful, and I'd think in the new position they would be more likely to encounter triggers for the PTSD!

That's what I thought.Many of the underprivileged and homeless in our society are suffering from mental health problems formed by abuse.To enter as a front line worker with people who have suffered what she has, and to have to hear it daily.....well it would seem counter productive.You could put money on it that she would relapse from PTSD and be out of work again.
  #10  
Old 11-04-2012, 11:35 AM
billm's Avatar
billm billm is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,431
billm is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rioe View Post
Why would anyone with PTSD from being sexually abused want to switch from being in sales to being a social worker? Both are stressful, and I'd think in the new position they would be more likely to encounter triggers for the PTSD!
It's a fair point, but what she does is certainly her business.

Expecting more SS based on her decisions though is not reasonable. If she wants to make less money, that is on her, when it comes to SS.

As for CS, it should be based on what the parents actually make (or the equivalent based on what they are living on if supported by external means).
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spousal/Child Support Question Jenny Divorce & Family Law 6 10-01-2013 12:01 AM
Still trying to get a child support order fedupp Financial Issues 3 03-17-2009 10:16 AM
Ex Spouse Refuses to Work maurice Financial Issues 7 09-03-2008 09:20 AM
Unilateral Change to CS Amount DadofTwoGirls Divorce & Family Law 3 12-21-2006 06:49 PM
Hello, I'm new. My concern? Order obtained fraudulently logicalvelocity Introductions 5 11-16-2006 09:22 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:19 AM.