Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Financial Issues

Financial Issues This forum is for discussing any of the financial issues involved in your divorce.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 12-18-2009, 01:58 AM
got2bkid got2bkid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 324
got2bkid is on a distinguished road
Default Section 7 expenses without consent

My husbands ex-wife went ahead and put braces on kid#2 without telling us she was doing it. My husband got a phone call from the dentist saying he owes XXX/month, starting in Dec./09 (80% of TOTAL bill, not even deducting the 1500 that his insurance covers first). The total cost is almost 7,000.

My husband did NOT OK this with his ex-wife, as we are still paying off kid #1 braces and cannot afford to pay for 2 sets of braces at the same time. The ex wife must have lied to the dentist and told them he had OK'd everything. The braces are on, and the payments are coming out of his account already (they had his bank information from the last set). What can we do? The payments for 2 sets of braces will over-lap for 6-7 months. And it's wasn't an emergency, the girl is only 12.

I feel like we are always getting screwed over by this loser who doesn't even work to support her own kids. It isn't the first time she's pulled crap like this. She treats my husband like her personal ATM, with no regard or concern for our two children, who do also need to EAT now and then.
  #2  
Old 12-18-2009, 07:18 AM
first timer first timer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 234
first timer is on a distinguished road
Default

Do you have an agreement for section 7 expenses?
  #3  
Old 12-18-2009, 07:24 AM
Mess Mess is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,448
Mess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the roughMess is a jewel in the rough
Default

The first thing to do is to call the dentist, and probably write the same thing in a letter, and explain the same thing you just wrote here. Many dentists are reasonable and will work out a longer term payment plan.

The child has the braces. The work is done, it must be paid for. The child would have gotten the braces eventually, you would just not have afforded the work for both children in the same year. (I fully agree with you). In the end the dentist must be paid. If you have to, take out a bank loan and pay the braces off over 2 or 3 years.

The mother has proven herself untrustworthy and letting her have access to a dentist or other professional or service, with an account set up, is the equivalent of giving her a credit card. Doing that in the first place was mistake, so correct it now. Close the account. Tell the mother that she will have to pay for services herself, or arrange financing, and then ask you to reimburse her when she provides receipts. That is not an unusual set up. Of course she will claim she can't afford that, but she will then have to start communicating and co-operating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by first timer View Post
Do you have an agreement for section 7 expenses?
Whether they have a written agreement or not, they are responsible for their share of section 7 expenses, in proportion to each parent's income.
  #4  
Old 12-18-2009, 10:39 AM
About_Time About_Time is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 311
About_Time is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Whether they have a written agreement or not, they are responsible for their share of section 7 expenses, in proportion to each parent's income.

True, but an agreement may dictate how notification is supposed to occur. Mine for instance says that expenses above a certain amount must be agreed to in advance. If my ex slapped braces on my daughter (a thumbsucker - so it's coming!) she would need to discuss this with me beforehand.

Obviously the big problem is that the work is done. There isn't a lot that can be done. The dentist isn't going to wait until you sort it all out in court.
  #5  
Old 12-18-2009, 12:02 PM
got2bkid got2bkid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 324
got2bkid is on a distinguished road
Default

Mess says "Close the account. Tell the mother that she will have to pay for services herself, or arrange financing, and then ask you to reimburse her when she provides receipts. That is not an unusual set up. Of course she will claim she can't afford that, but she will then have to start communicating and co-operating."

I like this very much. In the future the account will be closed and we will not pay for anything untill she provides receipts. your right, she will never be able to pay for anything, but at least she'll have to talk to my husband first.

Yes, the work is done on the braces and the money is coming out, so there is not much we can do about this one but won't let this happen again. I am fuming mad though, I guess I'll have to work more hours for the next 7 months to pay for this while she sits on her A$$ some more.

Their agreement says they will pay their share of section 7's based on income. We asked for a statement saying that all section 7's will be agreed to in writing before hand, but she had a free lawyer and wouldn't agree to anything, even the smallest most common sense thing. Eventually, the free lawyer returned the document to us with NONE of the small things we had asked be put in the document to cover our butts for events such as this. This was after 5 years of negotiating. Her lawyer literally sent us the original document. Well, my husband finally saw he was spending 250/hour on his lawyer for nothing. Her and her free lawyer were just having a little fun with his time and money I guess.

So he had no choice (ie no money left) and signed the original agreement that is basically the worst agreement in the history of the world. Thanks Legal Aid (and a loser ex-wife who didn't want to move on in life, even though she left the marriage) for that one.
  #6  
Old 12-18-2009, 12:37 PM
dadtotheend's Avatar
dadtotheend dadtotheend is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 3,644
dadtotheend will become famous soon enoughdadtotheend will become famous soon enough
Default

The whole thing sucks, but if the child needed braces, then the child needed braces. It's not like you were roped for something frivoulous like riding lessons or the like.

Given the language you are using regarding the ex and how you feel about her character, this behaviour ought to have been expected, and you might reasonably have taken steps to prevent the automatic charges from occuring in the first place. Presumably you could still instruct the bank to stop the pre-authorized debit to your account until you and the dentist can come to an arrangement.
  #7  
Old 12-18-2009, 12:59 PM
first timer first timer is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 234
first timer is on a distinguished road
Default

Sorry to hear that got2bkid. My agreement has these clauses which is why I inquired whether you had an agreement or not:
[11] The parties agree that they are required to equally contribute to child health and dental care expenses not covered under their medical/dental health plans. Both parties shall consult with one another in advance of incurring said expenses. The parties will only contribute to said expense if they consent in advance and in writing.

[12] The parties agree that they are required to equally contribute to child-care expenses related to work, educational costs and extracurricular activities. Both parties shall consult with one another in advance of incurring said expenses. The parties will only contribute to said expense if they consent in advance and in writing.
  #8  
Old 12-18-2009, 01:16 PM
independentgal independentgal is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 241
independentgal is on a distinguished road
Default

I would definitely not close the account, but instead call the bank or go online and put a stop payment on the account for that ongoing payment.

I don't think they are permitted to just start pre-authorized payments from your account without consulting you! The dentist is in the wrong,plain and simple. They are called "PRE AUTHORIZED for a reason. You need to consent to them and sign something.

Call the dentist and very politely tell them that regarding Child #2, you were not consulted prior to these payments coming from your account. Tell them to remove the pre-authorized payment plan for that child. Tell them to send you a bill for the outstanding amount, and once you receive that, you will contact them to make arrangements for a payment plan that you can BOTH agree on.

Tell them in future that you would like to be contacted prior to any major dental expense being incurred.

Your ex sounds like a lost cause though. Who would do that to their ex without consulting them? You must feel like an ATM.

You need to send something to your ex that all discretionary expenses that fall into Section 7 expenses must be consulted with you in advance.

I would be so mad if money I had counted on for something else was all of a sudden gone from my account.

And, for the record, I DO NOT think braces are always a necessity or a right. Crooked teeth never killed anyone. It is all relative to your income. For people with large incomes this would be a definite expense, but for people lower-middle class or even middle class in this economy, it is NOT something so crucial that it can't wait. Just my opinion.
  #9  
Old 12-18-2009, 02:09 PM
got2bkid got2bkid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 324
got2bkid is on a distinguished road
Default

I agree with you independentgal, I think this must be fraud or something and the payments should be stopped. How can the dentist go from charging XX/month, to suddenly XXXX/month?! But I don't have much of a say apparently, I am only his wife and the mother of his other 2 kids.

I am very angry, especially that she did this over Christmas. I also agree that braces are not a right. And she is only 12, and her teeth are not that bad. We think she did this now because she did have a job (for 6 months) that she has subsequently lost, and knows she will pay less if they are done in this tax year. ARRGGHHH! If they were still together, there is NO WAY they could afford braces, for either child.

I have to talk more with hubby tonight but my fear is he'll just want to "let it go" cause he knows reason and compromise are two words that are not in her vocabulary.
  #10  
Old 12-18-2009, 02:19 PM
got2bkid got2bkid is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 324
got2bkid is on a distinguished road
Default

Thanks First Timer for your reference. We will definately get something like that written up and sent to her. And I'd like to have her pay for the expense and forward the reciepts for re-imbursement (that way discussions will have to take place first). Can changes like this be added as an "addendum" to the original agreement?
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FRO - section 7 expenses Coop Financial Issues 5 10-22-2012 01:19 PM
Question on CS and Section 7 Expenses decent fellow Financial Issues 4 11-15-2011 01:59 AM
Actually GETTING the Payment for Section 7 Expenses dazedandconfused2049 Financial Issues 4 10-20-2011 10:15 AM
Section 7 expenses Nationcaps Divorce & Family Law 4 09-21-2011 11:13 AM
Section 7 Expenses peaches4 Divorce & Family Law 2 10-22-2010 10:23 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:33 AM.