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  • #16
    Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
    you need an actual plan of how you're going to get to 50/50. Janus and I disagree on whether that is gradual or not.
    Not really. Anybody who does not have 50/50 and wants it must propose a gradual plan to get there. In the case of Donald here, that gradual is probably on the order of a year or two. He is starting from a shockingly low amount of parenting time.

    Our general disagreement is that you think the gradual change is useful, whereas I think the gradual change is just theatre. Either way, judges agree with your interpretation, so even if gradual is just theatre, it still has to be done


    BUT if you've beat all these "silver bullets" the other side has lobbed at you- get a parenting plan together that shows gradual increases every two months or so. If access and parenting time is the only thing left on the table- get to trial.
    Exactly. And not a vague plan either. A very specific one with very specific times. I've seen gradual plans that look like:

    Week 3: One overnight
    Week 7: Two overnights
    Week 9: Three overnights

    Which overnights? What time do these start? When do they end? Where do the transfers take place? The schedule has to be ridiculously specific. You need to know exactly where the kid is going to be October 11th at 6:43pm. If you do not know that, then the schedule is not sufficiently specific.

    Comment


    • #17
      Thanks very much all for the incredible advice!!!!!!

      Putting things together as we speak!

      Thanks again, very much, as always,

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Donald Duck View Post
        Thanks very much all for the incredible advice!!!!!!

        Putting things together as we speak!

        Thanks again, very much, as always,
        This is roughly how our graduated parenting plan was laid out:

        Applicant = dad
        Respondent = mom
        D3 = my daughter's name

        PARENTING TIME

        1. In this section, the words listed below have the following meanings:

        “School Year” means the Montessori pre-school year as set by D3’s Preschool [add your kids school here]; when the Child reaches such age as to make her eligible to attend public school, it shall mean the set school year as outlined by the applicable school;

        “Agreement” means this Agreement and the Schedules to this Agreement as may be amended from time to time between the Region and the Service Provider;

        “Day” means the each Calendar Day , inclusive of weekends;

        “Statutory Holiday” means a day on which government offices and agencies are closed, this would include school closure(s);

        “Non-Statuory Holiday” means a day observed as having special meaning at large but no closure or special observation is required of the parties, e.g. Halloween or St. Patrick’s day.

        “Summer Holiday” means the summer holiday when the Child will not be attending school.

        “Vacation” shall mean travel outside the province, including travel outside of Canada.


        “Pick Up/ Drop Off times” for clarity on the pick up and drop off times; pick up will be the responsibility of the Party who’s parenting time is beginning to pick up D3 from the other Party’s residence. For example, on Wednesdays, the Applicant shall pick up D3 from the Respondent’s residence at the beginning his parenting time. At the end of the Applicant’s parenting time, the Respondent shall pick up D3 from the Applicant’s residence. Pick up from [NAME OF SCHOOL] School means the end of school day at 3:45pm. When D3 transitions to public school, pick up shall be from her school at the end of day.


        2. The parents agree to the following transitional schedule with the understanding that there are no significant issues/concerns raised by either parent with regard to the emotional and physical safety of D3. If any issues are raised by either parent, they commit to scheduling a session with [NAME OF OUR PARENTING COACH] as soon as possible in order to discuss the issue/concern with the view to reviewing the appropriateness of the transitional schedule. Any emergencies or safety concerns will require the parents to contact a hospital and/or police.

        Starting from the date of execution of this Agreement, the parties shall have parenting time with the child as follows:



        3. Commencing [DATE]:



        a) When these conditions are fulfilled, the Applicant shall have unsupervised parenting time with D3 on Wednesdays 2:30 pm – 5:30pm, and Saturdays 10:00am – 5:00pm.

        b) The Applicant shall be responsible for providing lunch for D3 on Saturdays.

        c) The Applicant shall pick-up D3 from the Respondent’s home. The Respondent shall pick-up D3 from the Applicant’s home at the end of the Applicant’s parenting time.



        4. Commencing [a DATE four months later]

        Commencing on [DATE], the child shall be in Applicant’s care as set out below. The child shall be in the Respondent’s care during the remaining times.

        Wednesdays: 2:30pm to 7:00 pm.
        Saturdays: 10:00am to 7:00 pm.

        The Applicant shall be responsible for providing lunch on Saturdays, and dinner on Wednesdays and Saturdays.


        5. Commencing [DATE two months later]

        D3 shall be in the Applicant’s care as set out below. D3 shall be in the Respondent’s care during the remaining time.

        Wednesdays: 3:45 pm to 7:00 pm.
        Fridays: 3:45 pm to 7:00 pm.
        Saturdays: 10:00am to 7:00 pm.


        Pick ups on Wednesdays and Fridays will be from [NAME OF SCHOOL] School in [CITY].
        Pick up on the weekend will remain at the Respondent’s residence.

        6. Transition to overnights

        Building on clauses 5 and 6 above, the parties agree to the following schedule to allow transition of D3 to overnight. On the third Friday of each of [add in 3 consecutive months- e.g. August, September, and October], D3 shall spend one overnight with the Applicant, outside the normal schedule as follows:



        August 2021: From 3:45 p.m. on Friday, August 20, 2021 to 11:00 a.m.
        on Saturday, August 21, 2021

        September 2021: From 3:45 p.m. on Friday, September 17, 2021 to
        1:00 p.m. on Saturday, September 18, 2021

        October 2021: From 3:45 p.m. on Friday, October 15, 2021 to 4:00 p.m. on
        Saturday, October 16, 2021


        7. Commencing [DATE]

        Commencing [date], D3 shall be in the Applicant’s care as set out below:


        Wednesdays: 3:45 pm to 7:00 pm.
        Weeks 1 and 3: Fridays 3:45 pm to Saturday 6:00pm.
        Weeks 2 and 4: Saturdays 10:00 am to Sunday 6:00pm.

        8. Commencing [Date- two months later]

        Commencing [DATE], D3 shall be in the Applicant’s care as set out below:

        Wednesdays: Pickup after school Wednesdays to drop-off at school on
        Thursday morning
        Weeks 1 and 3: Pick up after school on Fridays to drop-off at school on
        Monday morning.

        9. Commencing [Date- pick a date when kid is say- 5 years old]

        Commencing when child reaches 5 years old. The parents shall have equal parenting time on a 2-2-3- schedule, or week about- or whatever gets you to 50-50.

        Comment


        • #19
          Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Thank you very much!

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Janus View Post
            Not really. Anybody who does not have 50/50 and wants it must propose a gradual plan to get there. In the case of Donald here, that gradual is probably on the order of a year or two. He is starting from a shockingly low amount of parenting time.

            Our general disagreement is that you think the gradual change is useful, whereas I think the gradual change is just theatre. Either way, judges agree with your interpretation, so even if gradual is just theatre, it still has to be done




            Exactly. And not a vague plan either. A very specific one with very specific times. I've seen gradual plans that look like:

            Week 3: One overnight
            Week 7: Two overnights
            Week 9: Three overnights

            Which overnights? What time do these start? When do they end? Where do the transfers take place? The schedule has to be ridiculously specific. You need to know exactly where the kid is going to be October 11th at 6:43pm. If you do not know that, then the schedule is not sufficiently specific.
            I put togeather a very specific parenting plan and retained a lawyer too.

            As I stated previously the only outstanding issue is access and the childs mother offered a final phase of parenting time of EOW and Wednesday for a few hours.

            Our counter offer takes their offer and increases time up to 50/50 over two years which takes the child to 7.

            All other details are very specific as to holidays, exchanges, etc.

            They obviously will not accept and I'm curious to see what the Judge does but the other lawyer has already requested that we go to a trial or a focused hearing if I do not accept their offer.

            There literally are zero other issues, and the childs mother has even written in a recent affidavit that I'm a very good father and our son needs to spend more time with me.

            Comment


            • #21
              Nicely done.

              Question- as you've stated, false accusations have been dealt with- correct?

              What is mom taking issue with? Why can't you have 50/50? other than mom wanting child support.

              Comment


              • #22
                Thank you!!

                Yes, dealt with in the sense that nothing ever happened, no charges and the police offices knew that she was lying.

                CAS did not even do anything at all, in fact, I chased them down as the officers told me that she called them and literally nothing happened, not an interview, nothing.

                I was self represented at the time of these issues and she stopped any and all contact at the time of the police calls, so at the following CC, I spoke to the Judge ( where her lawyer reiterated that she called the police and reiterated the lies)

                I told the Judge that nothing happened and that it was a lie and the other lawyer asked for supervised access which would "graduate" to non supervised access.

                I did not want to agree to this but the Judge said that I could then have third party documentation and that he thought it was a good idea.

                At the time, I was desperate to see my baby and I agreed just so I could see him.

                So I started the supervised access at a place where they do this and they took notes and saw how much the child loves me and me him and that our connection was great.

                Then we "graduated" to " access in the community " and continued to use this service simply for transfers.

                Interesting part is is that we used them up until Covid shut that place down but I accumulated a lot of evidence including many more of the childs mothers antics and false accusations, and times where my son said certain things that they documented and that I can use as evidence if/when needed.

                Believe it or not, after all these silver bullets and ridiculous antics, now they're saying that the best that they will do is EOW and Wednesdays for a few hours.

                She has used the child as a pawn since birth and uses him as her own property, and has completely weaponized him since birth.

                Thanks to the incredible people on this board, I do not get emotional during transfers, I'm polite, I dont engage and she continually tries to provoke me but I don't take the bait, I document everything and quite frankly, I think that she just wants to hurt me by not letting me see him.

                She has missed 42 court ordered access visits in the last two years.

                Even recently she asked me if I could switch days for Mothers Day and I said absolutely, and I got a card and a small gift that our son choose for her and got him to make a short video for her, and she was very touched and thanked me so much.

                The following week I asked her if I could speak with him for a few minutes and she did not even reply to both requests.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Their stance in court next week will be that I have not had overnights so they dont know how we could do 50/50 but my premise is is that I want it to be gradual but the child is incredibly close to me and it will not at all be an issue as we scale up.

                  Since day one, it has been to deny access by any means necessary and I'll be the first to admit that I've made multiple strategic mistakes in court, it's been quite the learning experience.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Also it's not our sons fault that he has not had much time with me or my family.

                    That's why I am saying a gradual increase over two years.

                    This is not my first child, I have raised children before, and am a really good father, while this is her first child ( and for the most part, she is a very good mom) it's not my first rodeo so to speak, so it's not even like how would I do it , I've done it multiple times.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Apologies if this is somewhat of a ridiculous question.

                      At the court appearance, the other side wanted to finalize with the EOW and Wed for a few hours and I wanted to gradually increase to one overnight then two and eventually get to 50/50 over a 2 1/2 year period when the child would be 7 and change.

                      Judge wants us to come back with a deal in a month.

                      For me, anything less than 50/50 is a dealbreaker.

                      Can the Judge force this issue as in forcing me to accept less than 50/50 or is my worse case scenerio that we head towards trial.

                      Thanks very much

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        You should really be asking for additional time over the summer holidays. That is pretty normal to have vacation time with your child and demonstrating that you can care for your child for more than a weekend bolsters your argument that you can handle 50/50. Maybe suggest four consecutive days in July and seven consecutive days in August, both with a midweek visit to the co-parent and she can FaceTime once of twice

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          You should also ask for some days over March Break, holiday weekends and several PD days a year. There’s no reason why you can’t have child an extra day over weekends when there is no school.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Donald Duck View Post
                            Judge wants us to come back with a deal in a month.
                            Judge is an asshole.

                            Wait out the month. Do not pay a lawyer to negotiate when there is no reasonable prospect of success. Pretend to negotiate while keeping your financial bleeding to a minimum. Do not say "I refuse to negotiate" to the judge or to the opposing counsel. (I don't know why you cannot say that. I'm just echoing my own lawyer's advice as I have been in a very similar situation.)

                            Can the Judge force this issue as in forcing me to accept less than 50/50 or is my worse case scenerio that we head towards trial.
                            The SC judge cannot force a parenting regime on you but the trial judge can. If you only have 8 hours a week after 4 years then your ex's "silver bullet strategy" has been phenomenally successful at alienating you. Did the SC judge comment on the strength of your ex's evidence against you getting 50/50?

                            If it does go to trial I would propose a much shorter graduation than you did in your offer. If you want 3 bananas, ask for 6 bananas. (But keep your settlement offer as-is.)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Although Rockscan's logic is solid, it is overkill in this situation. You want an Interim Interim Order on Consent with another case conference scheduled for September to re-access parenting time - with the goal of increasing it. (And if it isn't increased on consent at the September conference you insist on to be put on the Trial list to motivate the co-parent)

                              The Interim Interim Consent agreement would be along the lines of: effective immediately, EOW and Wednesday evenings (specify the dates), an additional four consecutive days in July, a week in August (specify exact dates as suggestions but be willing to negotiate), if your weekend is alongside a long weekend you get the extra day (but don't make it so you have the child EVERY long weekend this summer - specifically I would let your co-parent have the Labour Day weekend). In September have the Wednesdays become overnight with pickup from school on Wednesday afternoon and return to school Thursday morning (shows you can adhere to routines and lets you meet the teachers) and ask that EOW in September be pickup from school on Friday and return on Sunday night the first weekend you have the child but, starting with the second weekend you have the child, expand it your weekend to be return to school Monday morning. If there is any long-standing family tradition over the summer, like the co-parent always has a family reunion or a special family birthday, or (unlikely) a planned wedding, then specify that on those dates that the child will be with your co-parent on those dates even if it interferes with your parenting time. That shows you are placing the child's best interest above your own.

                              Then at the September conference the Judge should be able to see that things are going well and put a lot of pressure on the co-parent to expand your parenting time.

                              Right now your co-parent is offering you more time than you have, and Judges will look askance at you not accepting it (in the best interest of the child), but will also like the fact that you are asking for a Judge to review it on a timeline so it doesn't just become a new status quo instead of a stepping stone to increased time.

                              Make this as an offer to the other side right now. If they do not accept it, accept the offer of EOW and Wednesday for NOW without prejudice to seeking to increase parenting time but that the next conference will still go ahead where you will have at least a few weeks of increased time with your child and can ask for the proposal again and ask for a September conference. The other side will probably try to encourage you to adjourn the conference on consent to "see how the parenting time will go" as a delaying tactic but you can insist it still be case managed at the conference with the goal of increasing your parenting time.
                              Last edited by tilt; 06-01-2021, 01:10 PM.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Thank you very much to all for the really in depth explanations and observations and very valid points!

                                It's as if this board is the equivalent of a super hero lawyer!!!!!!

                                Thanks again so very much to all!

                                Comment

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