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  • #16
    Ottawa has had three outbreaks in childcare centres over the past week, not enough to just shut everything down; and Israel had a large outbreak related to school re-openings due to physical distancing not being observed in large scale which I believe resulted in them shutting the schools down again.

    For many people the concern is not just the unknown long-term effects of contracting covid but also the risk of spread to the family of the child in care. This is certainly a demonstration that we all have different levels of risk tolerance and we need to be kind to others that are making different choices based on their own situation.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by StillPaying View Post
      Quick research shows that 1:8000 kids with covid will die.
      For those who don't know, that number comes from the following:

      8000 kids have had confirmed covid in Canada.
      1 has died.


      First issue: The sample size is insanely small. If the rate was 1 in 100,000, the probability of 1 kid dying out of 8000 would be suprisingly reasonable.

      Second issue: The vast majority of kids are not getting tested. The rate is based on confirmed cases. The actual number of kids infected might be (and probably is) orders of magnitude higher.

      I've said this before, your kids probably have a better chance of dying via car crash while being driven to school than actually dying of COVID obtained from being at school.

      Also, as a comparison, the lifetime probability of being struck by lightning is about 1 in 3000.

      Parents keeping their kids away from school are, from a mathematical perspective, being completely unreasonable. By all means, let the helicopters keep their kids home, but let the rest of us actually follow scientific advice and do what is right for our children.

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      • #18
        Pick a country and search school outbreaks. They all started by closing down the city, then slowly reopened with precautions, and numbers skyrocketed until closed again. Now in September we're going to try it out.

        Although a low percentage, children do die from this and in the weeks before it is discovered, have already spread it throughout the family/friends/community.

        School will have no assemblies, gym, clubs, music, singing, touching, regular class or schedule. Why roll the dice on kids when online is available; especially when every other building has a 50 person limit. It's just not worth it to me. It may be seen as helicoptering, but I'll have no problem waiting a few extra weeks once they do open to see what happens.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by StillPaying View Post
          It may be seen as helicoptering, but I'll have no problem waiting a few extra weeks once they do open to see what happens.
          I don't think this is helicoptering.

          This is such a shitty time to be a parent trying to make this decision.

          The risk for me- isn't to D3- it's to her grandparents who are all immuno-compromised. Our family - including her dad and his mom have made the decision we want to keep her in preschool come fall; even if it's a full cohort and presents greater risk because we think it is better for her.

          Also- I didn't keep D3 away from her dad because of her eczema. lol. I kept her away cause I wasn't sure he was safe- because of his temper and his sometimes appalling disregard for her severe allergies. Those have somewhat been resolved so you can stop losing sleep over it.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
            I don't think this is helicoptering.
            There are two types of helicoptering:

            1) Snowplow: Parent clears a path so that their child faces no resistance in life. Teachers, job interviewers, coaches, etc. are all proper targets for this type of parent.

            2) Panic hoverer: Parent feels the world is a dangerous place, despite all evidence to the contrary. Parent seeks to protect child from imaginary terrors. Stranger danger, no letting kids play alone in the park, cellphone trackers and the like would be good examples.

            Not sending your kids to school, despite the vast majority of evidence showing that it is pretty safe, falls quite squarely under the latter type of helicopter parenting.

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            • #21
              Don't forget the ignorant parents, whom turn a blind eye when evidence shows you can't take your kids to McDonald's or the movies, but thinks 1000+ people in a school should be fine. We probably won't die...

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              • #22
                Originally posted by StillPaying View Post
                Don't forget the ignorant parents, whom turn a blind eye when evidence shows you can't take your kids to McDonald's
                If your region is in stage 3, you can most definitely take your kids to McDonald's.

                but thinks 1000+ people in a school should be fine.
                Most school opening models have kids staying with their classes, so we are talking about at most 30 people with direct contact.

                The 1000+ people in a school is about as relevant as the 10+ million people in Ontario. That is, not at all relevant.


                We probably won't die...
                Unless there is a dramatic advance in technology, we are all going to die.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Janus View Post
                  If your region is in stage 3, you can most definitely take your kids to McDonald's.
                  A large portion of the GTA isn't, but I do wonder if you'll be lining up first or have your child in front of you.

                  Most school opening models have kids staying with their classes, so we are talking about at most 30 people with direct contact.

                  The 1000+ people in a school is about as relevant as the 10+ million people in Ontario. That is, not at all relevant.
                  When I go to the movies, I usually only go into 1 theater as well. Yet, your stage 3 rules say only 50 people in all of cineplex despite the number of theaters.


                  Unless there is a dramatic advance in technology, we are all going to die.
                  Sound Trumpion

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                  • #24
                    Update- the plan for ontario schools is out.

                    https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/mobile/on...CxQIkwIb1njnOg

                    Kids are going back full time for elementary.

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                    • #25
                      From the release: "Parents are allowed to decide whether their child returns to school in-person this September. Students will have the option of remote learning, which would be delivered by the school board."

                      The remote learning that happened in the spring was lackluster.
                      Being around other kids is important. So is not getting sick.

                      If there are issues wait a month to see how it goes at school for the others. In my experience courts really don't care that much if the kids are out of school for a month over far lesser issues.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by StillPaying View Post
                        A large portion of the GTA isn't, but I do wonder if you'll be lining up first or have your child in front of you.

                        When I go to the movies, I usually only go into 1 theater as well. Yet, your stage 3 rules say only 50 people in all of cineplex despite the number of theaters...
                        Greater Toronto area enters stage 3 now (Friday).

                        Ontario is updating rules re: movie theaters, to allow 50 per theater screen.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by StillPaying View Post
                          Pick a country and search school outbreaks. They all started by closing down the city, then slowly reopened with precautions, and numbers skyrocketed until closed again...
                          Taiwan.
                          Nope, doesn't match your anxious narrative.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Just because something is below an acceptable limit does not make it safe.
                            Just because something is over an acceptable limit does not make it safe.
                            Most of us drive everyday and that is a risk. We have one more risk to deal with now.
                            That being said I think more people will get sick but unfortunately that is life that we can't escape but at the same time let us not encourage it.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by dad2bandm View Post
                              Taiwan.
                              Nope, doesn't match your anxious narrative.
                              Let's look into this callow response; a country about the size of Vancouver island. Taiwan seems to be doing really well and protecting their citizens.

                              They were closed most of February. Then had 2 weeks off for spring break, and are currently off for summer awaiting to go back in the fall.
                              The government provides every adult 5 masks a week, 10 masks for kids, and daily masks for others; and they all wear them without issue.
                              Cubicles have been installed around every desk, and social distancing is enforced.
                              If anyone travels or comes into contact with a traveler, they must notify the school. Regular people isolate for 2 weeks, 3 weeks for students.

                              I wish our government took it seriously too. But let's see what happens...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Soooo, five day camps outside Montreal, operating mostly outdoors in small cohorts, mandatory masking for adults, a low staff-to-student ratio, all have outbreaks. One camp alone is responsible for 46 cases as close contacts were infected before their outbreak was detected. This is a tough time to be a parent and I wish there was less judgement on the choices people are having to make

                                https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/mobile/n...o-46-1.5046839

                                Comment

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