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  • #16
    To Decentdad

    So your feeling is that even though he has lost his job and has purchased a part-time cash business and is wanting to cancel my SS that I will win in court? Why do I feel like I don't have a chance? Are you basing this on past experience or legal experience? I have a feeling it will all come down to the mood of the judge.

    As of this morning my ex has dragged both of our grown children into the mix. My daughter has told me that I am picking on her father even though it was his application to the courts over and over, I am just responding. And my son is now telling everyone that another man is spending his dad's money. My significant other has his own job and pays his own bills. He can't afford to pay my bills too!

    Comment


    • #17
      I am not trying to pick on you, but really, if he is no longer making the same amount of money as he was when you split up, he probably really can't afford to keep paying you the same amount as he was.

      Have you considered working the 20hrs a week, and going to school at the same time? I am sure that can be done - and then you can be contributing to your own support? And have his 'obligation' reduced? It's great that you are going back to school, and want to become self-sufficient, the greatest fault I find with SS is that women seem to believe they 'deserve' it, and think they should never have to take care of themselves.

      I don't think it's fair at all that his new spouse's income is considered - why should she help support you, if you aren't helping to support yourself?

      I also have to wonder - if even your own children aren't behind you, doesn't that make you think twice?
      Are you being fed lines by society, your lawyer and the media that make you feel like he owes you something?
      Wouldn't you feel better about yourself if you were indeed paying your own bills, and making your own way in life? Just some questions, cause I know I feel great about being independent post-divorce!!!

      Comment


      • #18
        Wildrose,

        I agree with DD. If you go to court, you will win - if winning means that you will continue to receive SS. The amount will be up to the judge and the flip of his/her coin.

        Your marriage was long-term and you sacrificed your career to raise a family. I commend you on your efforts to become self-sufficient. I'm sure that you would rather be 100% self sufficient rather than still being dependent on your EX-husband.

        If your ex has "lost" his job and he earned a substantial income, then you might argue that he is intentionally under-employed to avoid his support obligations. But, who knows what his counter-argument might be. The reality is that you are no longer a family and I wonder how you know his $500k net worth and the salary of his wife... are you sure about those numbers? Or, are they gossip numbers?

        In any case, I would suggest that you pursue the SS but spend more time and effort in becoming self sufficient.

        Best of luck to you.

        Comment


        • #19
          Before I answer your question Wildrose, some filler. There are many of us who have been through the system for, what seems like, decades. There are some of us who go even further and research laws, cases, read all the newspaper articles, follow forums, etc. There are some of us who want to go even further and push for Divorce reform.

          Again, before I answer your question, knowing the above, lets play devil's advocate. And lets weed through all the kids stuff, the emotional stuff, his spouse, your partner stuff, blah blah. Just the financial facts.

          When you split 3 years ago, you got half... and he got half. His financial income and your sweat equity are all split even-steven. But, you're at a disadvantage in this enterprise called marriage since your career does not exist, while his was allowed to continue. So, in compensation for that fact, and the fact you're both alone, you BOTH agree on $2K a month support. Done.

          So, post divorce (i.e. no longer a couple or responsible for each other in the big sense)... his equity went up, to $500K... but he lost his job. Your equity went down to $30k, but you are employed. Well, such is life. Your equity could have gone up and his down... and so on.

          Now, your ex has the liability (obligation) to pay a monthly fee of $2K. It is not like a car payment that could be reduced, halted, skipped or for that matter, he could even return the car. Nope. It's a support order. His only means to elminate this is to a) ask you to stop it... or b) take you to court and convince some judge to reduce or stop it. Failing a)... he must go b). That's the law in this country. Agree or court. There are no b/w rules in the Divorce Act (so to speak). So by saying "I'm just the repsondent" means you opted for "plan b". Well, you left him no choice.

          Your role here is the banker. You are basically saying: I'm not allowing you to return the car, skip payments, reduce payments, re-amortize the loan or anything else that makes sense. I want my money.. go get it.

          Now, do you see why we lose our minds when dealing with the Canadian Divorce system. No one. No where, is allowed to negotiate or act like this expect in Divorce. The bankers run the system (the support recipients) and the system allows for completely biased negotiations in favor of the banker. Heck, you can't even go to a competative bank for better rates.

          So, now to answer your question: you'll probably end up getting an increase. Just call it a hunch.

          Comment


          • #20
            Just to answer a few of the questions that have been raised. I do know what his spouses income is and what his net worth is because the last application he filed with the court required him to disclose a full financial statement......assets and liabilities and so therefore I have seen in writing what his net worth is. These are not "gossip" numbers.

            As far as my children and their feelings. They see their Dad on an almost daily basis and I only see them less than once a month because we live more than two hours away from each other. My children were very fortunate growing up and never wanted for much which was our fault. They now seem to follow the path that leads them to material things and that is why they are siding with their father. Their opinion is I'm picking on their Dad and purposely trying to make him miserable. That is not the case. I am trying to struggle to become self-sufficient by going to school to upgrade my education and I would love nothing more than to tell him I don't want or need his money. I would love nothing more than to have him totally out of my life but at this point I am not in a financial position to do so. My SO and I split all household expenses 50/50 and I have obligations that working 20 hours per week at $7.00 per hour just won't cover. Not by a long shot and we don't live lavishly. My car is paid for (by me) and we live in a manufactured home in a small town. I wouldn't call that living at the ritz.

            As far as the case that is pending in court. I don't want an increase, I just want what was agreed upon in the beginning. As far as an even split in the beginning, yes we did split things financially 50/50 other than our matrimonial home which he lied his way through to gain a profit. Also, any material things I asked for from the house were not delivered as they were supposed to be. Most things were substituted with sub-standard replacements that he took upon himself to give to me and that really sucked. I ended up with approx. $5000.00 worth of material things from the house, he kept the rest. Because I had not taken photos of the things in the house I had no proof as to what those things were. We lived in a 3500 sq ft home and it was full of top quality items re furniture, etc. I got ripped off, plain and simple. Now all I ask is that he honor his obligation until I can get my diploma and then he can carry on with whatever it is he does. All I want is our court order upheld legally. So far it has cost me dearly and he has manipulated the children as well. It's like beating a dead horse and how do you complete with that?

            Comment


            • #21
              maybe you offer to take a minor reduction now, and increase reductions on a sliding scale?

              If you got a job working 20hrs/wkx$7.50 hr, that would be $150/week gross, you should be able to reduce your support by even $250 a month to start.

              Instead of fighting him and still expecting the FULL amount, which frankly, it sounds like you are just trying to punish him with now - and that's based only on your posts, which are all about how hard-done-by you are, how he 'cheated' you, and how much better his situation is now - really, he's been paying you $2000/month for what, 4 years? - You have more than gotten back whatever he 'cheated' you out of, which by the way, you agreed to ... anyway, I digress.

              Doesn't it seem more fair to you to offer to work, part-time, subsidize your own lifestyle (regardless of what that is), and gradually move away from having him support you.

              Also, do you really not recgonize the absurdity of stating that your CURRENT 'partner' cannot afford to support you, but that your EX partner and HIS WIFE should be support you, and all the while YOU ARE NOT SUPPORTING YOURSELF????
              Be an adult for crying out loud, get a job, even a lousy paying job, and stop EXPECTING your EX-husband to take care of you.

              You already lived off his paycheque for 20 years - be grateful, lots of people (women and men) have to work both inside AND outside their home, raising children and running a household - and *gasp* having a full-time job as well ... you got off easy for 20 years, get off the gravy train, stop embarassing women who work their butt off to support ex-wives who can't be bothered to support themselves.

              Now that you have managed to avoid supporting yourself for all these years, I can see why this is such a shock to you, but why don't you let him, and yes, even poor old you, get on with your lives - be a big person, offer to reduce it year over year - even at a reduction of $500 a month per year, it would still give you another 4 years of support, and really, at some point, shouldn't you just walk away???

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by wildrose
                He has remarried and his spouse has an income of approx. $70,000. He is supporting his new wife's two adult children who are not paying room and board to live with them. These two children are currently unemployed.

                Don't you think that at $70,000 per year she is supporting her own children?? I know that's likely a novel idea for you - since you seem to believe your ex is a bank, but I would say that at her salary, she is capable of supporting herself, and her own children - sounds like sour grapes to me.

                Besides, really, according to the logic presented by the idea of spousal support, she really shouldn't have to work at all - he should be forced to compeltely support her - afterall, he's the man, he has a job/small business - why should his wife work?

                Ridiculous when you hear it like that, eh?

                Comment


                • #23
                  I'm not even going to quantify your response with an answer. If there are any "sour grapes" I'm thinking you own the vineyard.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Wildrose, I tried to send you a message but you have disabled receiving emails in your profile.

                    Right or wrong, black, white or grey area, we are all going through the same process here and there is no manual on what is fair for each party. We are all coming from different sides in the divorce battle and certain comments can touch peoples nerves. It has happened to me also. Please do not take it to heart, it is not meant as a personal attack(I hope). Sorry to hear you are having such problems, I definitely know where you are coming from.

                    I find this board fantastic for legal advice, but as for divorce support, I think other sites may be better suited to the details. If you find one, I would love to know about it!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Wow

                      What the heck is going on here....I am very shocked by some of the comments.
                      A women or man who stays home for 20 years, cooking, cleaning, caring, raising children and loving your partner is priceless.

                      When one is trying to better themselves that is wonderful. Someday she will not need support.

                      Good luck with everything.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by independentgal
                        Wildrose, I tried to send you a message but you have disabled receiving emails in your profile.

                        Right or wrong, black, white or grey area, we are all going through the same process here and there is no manual on what is fair for each party. We are all coming from different sides in the divorce battle and certain comments can touch peoples nerves. It has happened to me also. Please do not take it to heart, it is not meant as a personal attack(I hope). Sorry to hear you are having such problems, I definitely know where you are coming from.

                        I find this board fantastic for legal advice, but as for divorce support, I think other sites may be better suited to the details. If you find one, I would love to know about it!


                        Hello and thank you for your response. I have now activated my email. Sorry, didn't know it wasn't working.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Denisem
                          What the heck is going on here....I am very shocked by some of the comments.
                          A women or man who stays home for 20 years, cooking, cleaning, caring, raising children and loving your partner is priceless.

                          When one is trying to better themselves that is wonderful. Someday she will not need support.

                          Good luck with everything.

                          Seems to be that the general opinion on this board is that those things are meaningless. I am not surprised though that the majority of those responses are from men that are paying support.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Denisem
                            A women or man who stays home for 20 years, cooking, cleaning, caring, raising children and loving your partner is priceless.
                            I agree with you Denisem, it is "priceless" - but women who work full-time jobs do all those things too ... don't they?
                            Yet, they don't expect to be compensated at the end of a marriage for doing so - raising your kids and keeping a home is not a job, it's a part of real life.
                            That's my point about that.

                            Spousal support as 'compensation' is a ludicious idea - it's a wonderful thing if both partners make a decision for a mom to be home to raise the kids - however, once a relationship breaks down, there likely isn't enough money to allow that to continue, there just isn't.
                            However, lots of women seem to use that as an excuse to punish their ex - who is still working hard in many cases ... this just isn't fair.
                            Not working for your whole adult life, and living off someone else's earnings and then using the excuse that you have never worked, so you can't be expected to support yourself reeks of double dipping to me.

                            And refusing to go out to work, citing low wages as an excuse is pitiful - contributing anything is better than contributing nothing - we don't feel pity for welfare recipients who choose not to work and live off society, but for some reason we are expected to pity women who have never had to go out to work a day in their lives, and are now choosing not to ... it defies logic.

                            As far as staying home, raising kids, taking care of your house, that apparently isn't priceless for Wildroses ex - it STILL costs him $2000 a month, whether he has a steady income or not - even though his kids are grown and his ex is capable of working - just prefers not to. That's the whole point here.

                            In regards to the 'sour grapes in my own vineyard' comment, not at all. *I* have a full-time job, I support myself, my ex contributes ONLY to support of our children, and I can look both myself and my kids straight in the eye and be proud of who I am and how I live my life.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I agree with you Denisem, it is "priceless" - but women who work full-time jobs do all those things too ... don't they?


                              I am not sure how you figure that? Women with children that work full-time have daycare raise their children, they eat fast food and in restaurants more than stay at home moms, they have the drycleaners do their ironing and most that I know have someone come in to clean the house once every couple of weeks. If you are working full time you are not raising your children and attending all of their activities because you don't have time. As my children were growing up and going to school, I was attending their schools two or three times a week to volunteer whether it be helping in class or being a volunteer on field trips, whatever. Working full time would have not allowed me that option. My ex travelled three weeks out of four and I was home to get the kids to 5pm hockey and figure skating practice, I was there to pick them up at school for dental and doctor appointments and I was able to see that they had the extras that many of their friends didn't have because their friends were from double income families and timing was an issue. I not only took my own children to different functions but I also volunteered to take those children whose parents couldn't get home from work in time. So don't tell me that women who work full time do the same things as stay at home moms. And women who work full time spend approx. 3 hours per day if that, with their children because they are too busy trying to be supermom and earn an income as well.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by wildrose
                                I agree with you Denisem, it is "priceless" - but women who work full-time jobs do all those things too ... don't they?


                                I am not sure how you figure that? Women with children that work full-time have daycare raise their children, they eat fast food and in restaurants more than stay at home moms, they have the drycleaners do their ironing and most that I know have someone come in to clean the house once every couple of weeks. If you are working full time you are not raising your children and attending all of their activities because you don't have time. As my children were growing up and going to school, I was attending their schools two or three times a week to volunteer whether it be helping in class or being a volunteer on field trips, whatever. Working full time would have not allowed me that option. My ex travelled three weeks out of four and I was home to get the kids to 5pm hockey and figure skating practice, I was there to pick them up at school for dental and doctor appointments and I was able to see that they had the extras that many of their friends didn't have because their friends were from double income families and timing was an issue. I not only took my own children to different functions but I also volunteered to take those children whose parents couldn't get home from work in time. So don't tell me that women who work full time do the same things as stay at home moms. And women who work full time spend approx. 3 hours per day if that, with their children because they are too busy trying to be supermom and earn an income as well.
                                Nice generalization.

                                But wrong.

                                I do ALL those things - AND work full-time.
                                Most of the working moms I know do too ... we don't have cleaning ladies, or nannies, or "let daycares raise our kids" - we are responsible, CONTRIBUTING members of society.
                                I drop my kids off at school in the morning, pick them up less than 2 hours after school gets out each day - take them to their extra-curricular activities, doctor appts, dentist appts, and NEVER feed them fast food during the week.
                                According to you, those 2 hours a day - or 10 hours a week that don't I spend with my kids are worth $2000 a month to you.
                                Interesting, I should see if I can find anyone OTHER than our perverse family law system that agrees with that theory.

                                Better question is this - you say your kids are grown now, and you don't even see them ... how do you possibly justitfy not working now? I read your feeble excuses above about the past, but am more curious about your current situaton.

                                It has also not gone unnoticed by me that you refuse to even acknowledge any comments that you can't try to talk your way out of ... such as your exes current wife supporting her own children, or why you can't work part time at the very least, and start actually becoming self-sufficient instead of just talking about it.

                                My personal experience tells me that supporting yourself, and being independent has many more rewards than living off of someone else's hard work ... give it a try, it might not be as bad as you imagine!

                                Comment

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