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  • #16
    It's ridiculous really.

    Until you walk in someone else's shoes you really do not know what they have experienced. My point is simply that there are blood-suckers in every facet of life, marriage and divorce and it certainly is not exclusive to SS recipients. If anything I think there are likely many more people who are living off the avails of CS and not contributing by not supporting their children.

    Others like me, in their 50s or 60s (by the way I don't consider myself to be old) have given their whole adult lives to their families. I certainly didn't plan on divorcing after 30 yrs of marriage but I sure as hell wasn't going to stay with someone who disrespected me and dishonored our marriage.

    I planned to grow old and retire with someone. I didn't shack up with someone and leave him after a few years (I would have been better off financially if I had).

    If people don't want to pay spousal support then they should live alone or hire the other person as their employee. It's really quite simple. 50% of marriages end in divorce anyhow and children of those marriages are raised in single families.

    In many ways I consider myself lucky. I will only have to worry about myself in my old age. I won't be someone's nurse-maid that's for sure.

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    • #17
      Others like me, in their 50s or 60s (by the way I don't consider myself to be old) have given their whole adult lives to their families. I certainly didn't plan on divorcing after 30 yrs of marriage but I sure as hell wasn't going to stay with someone who disrespected me and dishonored our marriage.
      What do you think the rest of us did for our whole adult lives? I wasn't sitting under an umbrella on the beach in Hawaii! lol

      I can tell you this: I too gave to my family - everything I have and had. And I worked full time and went to school full time while raising several children. I still work full time and go to school full time and have been keeping this pace for 12 years. I am at home every night for dinner and I cook a home made meal. I volunteer at the kids schools moreso than most stay at home mom's I know. And I volunteer for each of our children's extra curricular activities.

      The above doesn't make me a hero. And if I separated from my hubby today I wouldn't be entitled to SS. But I too gave "all that I have" and "all my adult life". Doesn't really make sense to me.

      Now, you will tell me that I am not deserving of compensatory SS because I have a wicked career and a pay cheque to boot. But really - how the hell do you think I got there? It isn't luck. It was hard work.

      I find the whole "I took him to the cleaners" kind of talk about SS to be rather immature. You wanted it. You got it. Now get over it.

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      • #18
        Where's the like button?

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        • #19
          Serene you're being silly.

          If you were married to your current spouse for 30 yrs you very well might entitled to SS (or have to pay it) and you would receive it if he had the ability to pay it. Your situation is in no way similar to my situation, or that of others, so trying to compare things to your situation just doesn't make sense. SS is not determined like CS. Each situation is weighted individually in accordance with the laws of the country.

          You sound amazing. I don't know how you can be a full-time student (for 12 years - you must have several post-graduate degrees by now!) and work full time and then look after 5 kids and go to extracurricular activities. Fantastic really. Is there anything you haven't achieved? Wow!

          No one is saying they took anyone to the cleaners, rather people stood up for themselves and received what the court determined they were entitled to. You are merely projecting your own personal interpretation into things.

          You are very fortunate that you have been able to go to school full-time for 12 years. That doesn't mean that others can do what you have accomplished.

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          • #20
            Of course, in cases where both partners worked and could be financially independent, SS is ridiculous to contemplate.

            But some women, especially older women who married in a different era, did NOT have full-time careers, and did NOT have an opportunity for education. Their lives were spent working hard in the home to further their husband's career, with the expectation that this man would support them the rest of their lives. In some cases, this was furthering what was essentially a family business. When the marriage ends, contrary to that expectation, the women have no work experience, no marketable job skills, and little education, while the man has the benefit of a solid career/business he can rely on, which he would not have had without his wife's unpaid support all through the marriage. Suddenly, the marriage is over, and the ex-wife's job basically vanished, leaving her with no income and no prospects, and you think SS is still not called for?

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            • #21
              Who is your post directed to?

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Serene View Post
                Who is your post directed to?
                To people reading the post, who may or may not believe in SS.

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                • #23
                  I don't understand why if both parents work and have careers SS is ridiculous to contemplate. The reason I have a job, career and pay cheque is because I chose this path. I made an informed decision. Ultimately, I am responsible for me. The notion of being dependent on someone else is ridiculous to me.

                  And yes some spouses gave up their careers or gave up on getting a career to provide for their families. I could argue I did more by doing career, school and family simultaneously.

                  All in all, I don't really feel like anyone owes any one anything. It was a choice. A good or bad choice. No one can predict the future. The spouses who were financial providers could have dropped dead without any insurance or the insurance providers could go bankrupt prior to pay out - what the hell would these people have done then? The answer is: WORK.

                  If you think you deserve SS and want a good debate about it I will likely engage. At the end of the day my views mean little. However I do detest the public mockery of how some former spouses were taken to the cleaners financially with this. They too "gave all they had" by working for those families. And they continue to give through SS. All this to say, if you want people to view your entitlement and argument objectively then be respectful in how it's portrayed. Laughing and mocking each and every cashing of a cheque demonstrates unresolved emotion and doesn't further a tasteful nor respectful argument. It is also a way to relive the negativities of the past. Be grateful you were successful and for heaven's sake move on and on and on.

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                  • #24
                    Objectivity and the ability to see things from other's point of view is critical to debating in a thoughtful and intelligent manner.

                    I believe this thread ignited debate by one poster expressing unilateral opposition to SS and referring to receipt of same as STEALING.

                    Of course statements such as this will result in a swift response.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Serene View Post
                      . However I do detest the public mockery of how some former spouses were taken to the cleaners financially with this. They too "gave all they had" by working for those families. And they continue to give through SS. All this to say, if you want people to view your entitlement and argument objectively then be respectful in how it's portrayed. Laughing and mocking each and every cashing of a cheque demonstrates unresolved emotion and doesn't further a tasteful nor respectful argument. It is also a way to relive the negativities of the past. Be grateful you were successful and for heaven's sake move on and on and on.
                      ???

                      I don't see anyone on this forum "mocking" and "laughing" about SS. The people who receive it, like Arabian or momforever1956, are quite clear that they understand SS as fair compensation for the time and resources they directed into businesses and economic ventures owned by their exes, not as some windfall from heaven. As someone above said, it's like their CPP. Everybody knows a friend-of-a-friend who is allegedly "abusing the system" or "too lazy" to work and is living off SS, but I certainly don't see that attitude reflected here.

                      Good for Arabian and the others that their SS entitlement has been upheld by law; good for Serene that she is able to work full time and have a wicked career and go to school full time and raise kids full time and put a home-cooked dinner on the table every night and volunteer for all her kids's activities and do more for the school than stay-at-home moms and whatever else she does in her spare time; good for me that I have a profession in which I've been successful and happy, and which provides financial security for me and my daughter, even though the home-cooked dinners aren't always happening. None of us are going to end up eating cat food in our old age. We have all in our different ways worked hard for what we have now.

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                      • #26
                        One of the problems with SS is that while you have the choice (talking about long-term marriages) to not work and "just collect" SS your spouse is obligated to continue supporting you.

                        It is a little weird because when married you provided each other services but at the end of the marriage he still has to provide you services and realistically speaking you can openly not make any serious attempt for work + you are pretty much "retired from marriage" and you will get CC for minimum half the length of the marriage.

                        It really isn't fair, and I am so happy my ex-wife who would have been a career SAHM is now on the curb and has to work 9-5 like me and support the kids as well. I understand the losses sustained by SAHM but SS is not a fair solution, I wish there was soemthign better.

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                        • #27
                          but I certainly don't see that attitude reflected here.
                          Nobody will admit that...

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by stripes View Post
                            ???

                            I don't see anyone on this forum "mocking" and "laughing" about SS. The people who receive it, like Arabian or momforever1956, are quite clear that they understand SS as fair compensation for the time and resources they directed into businesses and economic ventures owned by their exes, not as some windfall from heaven. As someone above said, it's like their CPP. Everybody knows a friend-of-a-friend who is allegedly "abusing the system" or "too lazy" to work and is living off SS, but I certainly don't see that attitude reflected here.

                            Good for Arabian and the others that their SS entitlement has been upheld by law; good for Serene that she is able to work full time and have a wicked career and go to school full time and raise kids full time and put a home-cooked dinner on the table every night and volunteer for all her kids's activities and do more for the school than stay-at-home moms and whatever else she does in her spare time; good for me that I have a profession in which I've been successful and happy, and which provides financial security for me and my daughter, even though the home-cooked dinners aren't always happening. None of us are going to end up eating cat food in our old age. We have all in our different ways worked hard for what we have now.
                            Amen!
                            I am employed, re-establishing myself professionally and loving it.
                            I truly believe that everyone should strongly consider developing skills, getting a good education and being independant.
                            I contributed not only to raising our children and running a home but was active in my x's professional practice.
                            I didnt take him to the cleaners and there is NO winner in a breakdown of a marriage. I do not apologize nor feel any need to defend SS. His financial success was a partnership and I was fortunate that I was involved to know what was going on in his business. Once the marriage ended and the lies and deceit started is when my boxing gloves were put to good use and I make no excuses for it.
                            I am protected from any material change for 5 years thanks to a great arbitrator, a guru of family law and I can promise you that when the 5 years is up, my x's income will have diminished by less than 1/2.
                            The facts are simple, I am supporting my youngest son through law school with this wonderful SS I am receiving. My eldest son who is also a professional was supported by us (we were married) for 3 years post grad and there is no way my children will pay the price emotionally or financially for a father who is sick, mean spirited, selfish and evil.
                            Before leaving the province, (he has relocated) he saw my eldest son for the 1st time in almost 2 years. He is angry and disappointed with our children as he feels that have sided with me. My son explained to him that it is his behaviour that is a disappointment.
                            He answers my son by saying, "I am selfish so what?"
                            I am so proud of my children and proud of where I am today. After being out of the work force for almost 30 years, it feels wonderful to refresh those good ole skills, have amazing co-workers and enjoy the craziness an office environment brings.
                            I still believe the best job I will ever have is being a momforever.

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                            • #29
                              Your last item on your list is my favorite too, but I would like to see more comments of how you people define "best interest of the children", special from feminists prospective.
                              One thing is for sure, since 1985 when divorce act has been implemented mainly based on gender biased decisions, a major reform is needed. The legislator don't mention anywhere what's in best interest of the children, so they're claiming this statement to go give a "legal" motivation of their decisions.

                              Sent from my SGH-I717D using Tapatalk

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                              • #30
                                Well we equalize everything - money, assets, etc. - except the child's time with BOTH their parents. That's testament to the understanding of "best interests of the children".

                                It's disgusting actually.

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