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  • Transportation dispute

    Some back ground info, I signed a separation agreement which states nothing about transportation for visitation.
    After signing this agreement I decided to move 85kms north of my children, and in doing so have done all the transportation every second weekend for my access, as it was my decision to move to somewhere I could afford to live.
    I pay a lot of money in support both child and spousal.
    After 7 months of this situation my soon to be ex wife decided to move my children 153kms away from my current residence.
    As I previously had been doing the transportation I have offered to now split the transportation and meet half way on friday evenings (pick up at 6pm) and also meet half way on Sundays also at 6pm.
    My soon to be ex wife thinks I should still do 100 per cent of the driving and she is not responsible for any!
    This would make me have to take 3 hours off work (I am paid hourly) plus the costs of fuel and vehicle!
    Should she not be responsible for at least half the transportation?
    I feel I am being bullied as she is treatening to deny access if I don't do 100% of the transportation by her over paid lawyer!
    I am currently unrepresented as I can not afford to pay a lawyer in this matter!

  • #2
    It is unfortunate that this was not covered in your agreement.

    I am pretty sure that you still are only responsible for driving to where she used to live.

    She is not allowed to deny access, but of course, what she will do is simply decline to drive to the halfway point.

    If she doesn't eventually agree with you, you're going to court. You don't necessarily need a lawyer (and you can't afford one anyway), but you would want to do some searches in this forum on self representation, and on other people's transportation issues.

    I don't believe that a judge would consider her position reasonable, since you have now both moved. On top of that, she should have consulted with you on removing the children from the area.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by concerneddad32 View Post
      Some back ground info, I signed a separation agreement which states nothing about transportation for visitation...
      Advice...don't call it "visitation". It's your access at least. Your parenting time. (not sure of your current custody arrangement). They are your children too. Try to avoid "visitation". It does affect your outlook on custody/access matters.

      Originally posted by concerneddad32 View Post
      ...Should she not be responsible for at least half the transportation?
      I feel I am being bullied as she is treatening to deny access if I don't do 100% of the transportation by her over paid lawyer!...
      Since she moved away too, you would think she should cover part of the costs of transportation. I would have fought that, but... I think what will possibly hurt your case, is the fact that you moved away too. Your position seems reasonable though.

      To clarify...? Her lawyer, works for her. Remember that. Of course he will demand you do all transportation costs. These "threats" to block access or diminish it, are coming from her lawyer? Or is the lawyer forwarding her email, or something similar? Doesn't look good on them, if they are stating that.

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the helpful hints in regard to wording! It's her lawyers emails threating the to deny access. I expect her lawyer to demand I give her client exactly what she wants, that's what she is paying her to do. I have set up Mediation, in hopes to resolve this, just would like some direction if what I am asking for is "fair"
        Until this gets resolved I have stated that she needs to have the children in the original town I have been picking the kids up, as that's what the current agreement states.

        Comment


        • #5
          Oh, your agreement DOES state where the kids have to be when you pick them up?

          Perfect.

          If she doesn't comply, document it when you show up and she isn't there. Keep documenting and then bring it to court so that she can effectively hang herself.

          Comment


          • #6
            Agreed.
            If the location and exchange is defined in your current agreement, then you can leverage that.

            Comment


            • #7
              It doesn't state the location, just the times. But has been happening in at this time and place since date of separation so have asked for it to continue until a change is agreed upon.

              Comment


              • #8
                If it doesn't state the address, you're creating yourself a big mess. Truth is, most fathers are 'access' parents and they do most of the driving. A judge won't likely care too much about this issue to be honest. They really don't like the semantics about what is fair for mom and what is fair for dad - because at the end of the day, it is what is in the best interests for the kids.

                And I'm willing to bet a judge will just say you do the driving - your the access parent. That's the way it goes...

                (note, I'm not stating I agree with it at all).

                Comment


                • #9
                  For the record - no judge cared that my husband had to pick up his kids EVERY day at their mom's house (4 times a week) because mom refused to sign transportation papers to allow the school bus to drop them off right at our door. My husband for 18 months had to miss work to drop off the kids at school at 9 pm because mom also refused to allow them to be picked up here when they spent the night... makes no sense.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Should she not be responsible for at least half the transportation?
                    Transportation obligations often differ from one jurisdiction to another.

                    Some concepts that tend to float around:
                    - The party who moved does the driving; or
                    - Parties pick up children, so no issues with access being denied due to not dropped off

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                      Transportation obligations often differ from one jurisdiction to another.

                      Some concepts that tend to float around:
                      - The party who moved does the driving; or
                      - Parties pick up children, so no issues with access being denied due to not dropped off
                      She moved, and I have asked to pick them up friday from their house and she pick up at my place on sunday and she still is not agreeable.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by concerneddad32 View Post
                        She moved, and I have asked to pick them up friday from their house and she pick up at my place on sunday and she still is not agreeable.
                        You moved first so if I was you I would offer to pick them up at her last address and drop them off there. She shouldn't have to travel the 85kms that you moved, just the difference between the distance between where she lives now vs where she lived before. By having to travel the extra distance you moved isn't fair at all.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by concerneddad32 View Post
                          Thanks for the helpful hints in regard to wording! It's her lawyers emails threating the to deny access. I expect her lawyer to demand I give her client exactly what she wants, that's what she is paying her to do. I have set up Mediation, in hopes to resolve this, just would like some direction if what I am asking for is "fair"
                          Until this gets resolved I have stated that she needs to have the children in the original town I have been picking the kids up, as that's what the current agreement states.
                          This sounds like the kind of issue that mediation is made for. In terms of what is "fair", here are a couple of possibilities (assuming that you and Mom now live about 235 km apart (85 + 150)):

                          1) You pick up the kids and Mom's old location and drop them off there (exactly as you have been doing until now). She is responsible for transporting kids between her new location and her old one. She is driving about 600 km (two round trips @ 150 km) and you are driving about 380 km (two round trips @ 85 km). This is "fair" because she should assume the additional transport resulting from her move (just as you assumed the additional transport caused when you moved away).

                          2) You meet half way between your location and Mom's new location (120 km away from each of you) to pick the kids up on Fri and drop them off on Sun. Both you and Mom are driving about 480 km (you're each doing two round trips @ 240 km). This is "fair" because you're splitting the driving caused by both of you moving equally.

                          3) You pick up the kids at Mom's new place on Fri and then she picks them up at yours on Sun. You and Mom are both driving about 480 km (you're each doing one round trip @ 480 km). This is "fair" for the same reason as #2, but is preferable to #2 because you're each only having to do one long drive per weekend.

                          4) You pick up the kids at Mom's new place on Friday and drop them off there on Sunday. You're driving about 960 km (two round trips @ 480 km), Mom is driving 0 km. This is "fair" because your agreement states that you do the pickup and dropoff.

                          5) You alternate some mix of the above on different weekends.

                          So there are plenty of ways to interpret what is "fair" in this situation, and you and Mom probably don't have the same interpretation right now. Mom's lawyer will want it to be Mom's way or no way, but a mediator might be able to help you both get to a "fair" solution you can both live with, unless Mom is completely rigid.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Shit - you're good!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If she won't bring them half way, you're going to have to go back to court.

                              Pick the kids up Friday. Tell her if she wants them back come get them at your house. Although they may not be sitting on her doorstep the next time you go to pick them up.

                              Comment

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