Need Advice: My 14 year old daugther wants to live with me

[blinkandimgone]

What you NEED to do is talk amongst the adults, like parents. Leave the kids out of the conversation. The two of you together need to come up with a plan on how to handle things when their wants to run back and forth between homes because she simply doesn't like something.

Your JOB as a parent is to back up and support the other parent and vice versa.

You need to find out the 'why' and address that, but I guarantee you that letting the kid up and leave to the other parent's house whenever she doesn't like the rules is NOT the answer. Consider how you would feel if there was an issue between you and the child that caused her to decide she wants to run back to mom's, instead of mom supporting you and saying 'hey, you can't be disrespectfull, call dad names and break all the rules ', she shows up, takes the kid and all her stuff and you don't hear from the kid until the situation is happening in reverse.

Stop letting the kid run the show and PARENT.

[Janibel]

^^^From what PlainameDad has written so fair, I don't get the impression that his D14 would be wanting to run back and forth between whichever parent gives in to her demands. It looks like she is wanting a permanent stay with her father - and has been requesting this for some time now.

I could be way off here, but a 14 year old is hardly a little kid and her opinion will be taken into account if this ends up in court.

[rockscan]

From what Ive read, it sounds to me likes kids have become aware of moms alienation and dads efforts to spend time with them. Thats where this is coming from. They were moved away from dad, hes moved closer. Mom is interfering in access, kids are trying to spend time with him. Mom is probably forcing them to stick to the exact access rules not a minute more and they are frustrated and looking for a way to be with dad and the only way they see it succeeding is to live with him.

Think about it from their perspective--they were moved away from dad, dad moved closer, now theres a fight for dad to spend time with kids. The only rational thought they can come up with is to say they want to live with him. Theres no way mom will make it easy AND now theyre both "stuck" in a situation they dont want. Its good they are speaking to OCL. Do everything you can through the proper legal channels to make this happen if its what they want. If your ex has gone so far as to move away from you to prevent your access you know shes not going to hand them over willingly.

Kids are pretty smart. Whether its to manipulate to get a no rules living situation or to get away from mistreatment. In this case Im betting that they have been subject to some serious dad bashing by both mom and grandpa. Plus they now know dad is fighting to see them and mom is being difficult. I am sure this change of heart from your kids is because they dont want to lose their dad again.

[stripes]

I have no experience with child custody matters but, looking from the outside in, I think you have handled this situation properly.

I like that you are letting your daughter be responsible for her own request to live with you. I think by doing that she will have a much better change in being successful in having a voice in where she wants to live. 14 year old children often let their emotions determine their actions thus they seem to "flip-flop" when making decisions. Don't be upset if she changes her mind and decides to tough it out with mom and gramps.

Hope everything works out for you.

I too think you handled this correctly. If you had kept D14 at your place after she was supposed to return to Mom's, you would have been in trouble with Mom and the OCL for not respecting court decisions. Ultimately, this would have worked against any effort to change the existing order so D4 can spend more time with you, because it would have established you as a parent who breaks the rules whenever they want.

If the parents in this case can't discuss the issue and come to an agreement, the only other venue is through the OCL. D14 is meeting the OCL today, so it will be up to her to articulate her concerns and issues, and then up to the OCL to decide how to act. It would be appropriate for the OP to talk to the OCL to discuss this issue which has come up, but it would not be appropriate for the OP to enable or encourage D14 to think that she's in charge. (And I would be very wary of going to D14's school today - maybe a phone call to the school office to make sure she wasn't absent today is as far as I would go. Emotions are running high, and you don't need more potential confrontations (and the school doesn't want that either, I can guarantee)).

I can't stress how important it is to not let the kids drive the bus. It's clear that there's a lot of hostility between Dad and Mom (and her family) - Dad thinks Mom is "batshit crazy" and Grandpa is an "a$$hole", and they probably return the favor - and I'm guessing D14 has picked this up. Right now Mom is the bad guy. This could turn on a dime tomorrow, especially if Dad has strict house rules or does something D14 doesn't like: suddenly Mom and Granddad don't seem so bad anymore, and D14 wants to go "home". I have see this happen repeatedly. How would Dad feel if Mom said "D14 says she doesn't want to stay with you any more, so I'm terminating her contact with you"?

I agree with the other posters that it's important to find out the "why" of D14's desire to live with Dad, but given that there's already been a lot of CAS involvement with this family and they haven't found anything, I don't think it's likely that there is abuse or neglect going on at the other home (if there is, CAS needs to be informed). The solution to this situation may lie in modifying D14's residence with her parents, but it definitely does not lie in letting her decide where to live. Her input, yes; her decision, no.

[plainNamedDad44]

What you NEED to do is talk amongst the adults, like parents. Leave the kids out of the conversation. The two of you together need to come up with a plan on how to handle things when their wants to run back and forth between homes because she simply doesn't like something.

Your JOB as a parent is to back up and support the other parent and vice versa.

You need to find out the 'why' and address that, but I guarantee you that letting the kid up and leave to the other parent's house whenever she doesn't like the rules is NOT the answer. Consider how you would feel if there was an issue between you and the child that caused her to decide she wants to run back to mom's, instead of mom supporting you and saying 'hey, you can't be disrespectfull, call dad names and break all the rules ', she shows up, takes the kid and all her stuff and you don't hear from the kid until the situation is happening in reverse.

Stop letting the kid run the show and PARENT.

Blink, with all due respect. You have no idea. The issues are "structural", "intrinsic". its not like STBX told her to eat her brussel sprouts and D14 says "that's it! I am out a here !" .

The situation is high conflict. There is a serious absence of good faith on the part of STBX. I have concerns about STBX's mental health.

Your advice, while a bit sanctimonious, is good, but not in my situation.

Thanks all for input.

[plainNamedDad44]

1. Is there a possibility of abuse by the grandfather?

I received an email from D10 saying this was going on. (Yelling and using belt). CAS turned blind eye. Probably because where else could STBX and kids go accept back to Ottawa (marital home).

2. Is the reason thr children want to leave because of the grandfather? What if the mom says "ok i will move out"?

To a significant degree, yes. for D14, she and STBX never got along.

The difference betweeb the dynamic when a child doesnt want to visit a NCP and when they want to LEAVE the home of a CP. The unwillingness to visit a NCP is a consequence of the seperation from the NCP and so "forcing" them is necessary to counteract the inpact of divorce on that relationship. Moving out of the home of the CP is a consequence of the failure of the CP to be a good parent.

[plainNamedDad44]

From what Ive read, it sounds to me likes kids have become aware of moms alienation and dads efforts to spend time with them. Thats where this is coming from. They were moved away from dad, hes moved closer. Mom is interfering in access, kids are trying to spend time with him. Mom is probably forcing them to stick to the exact access rules not a minute more and they are frustrated and looking for a way to be with dad and the only way they see it succeeding is to live with him.

Think about it from their perspective--they were moved away from dad, dad moved closer, now theres a fight for dad to spend time with kids. The only rational thought they can come up with is to say they want to live with him. Theres no way mom will make it easy AND now theyre both "stuck" in a situation they dont want. Its good they are speaking to OCL. Do everything you can through the proper legal channels to make this happen if its what they want. If your ex has gone so far as to move away from you to prevent your access you know shes not going to hand them over willingly.

Kids are pretty smart. Whether its to manipulate to get a no rules living situation or to get away from mistreatment. In this case Im betting that they have been subject to some serious dad bashing by both mom and grandpa. Plus they now know dad is fighting to see them and mom is being difficult. I am sure this change of heart from your kids is because they dont want to lose their dad again.

Yes... thank you. where's the damned Kleenex ?!

BTW Rs, that's pretty astute. Or maybe its obvious. Thanks for taking interest.

[plainNamedDad44]

I too think you handled this correctly. If you had kept D14 at your place after she was supposed to return to Mom's, you would have been in trouble with Mom and the OCL for not respecting court decisions. Ultimately, this would have worked against any effort to change the existing order so D4 can spend more time with you, because it would have established you as a parent who breaks the rules whenever they want.

If the parents in this case can't discuss the issue and come to an agreement, the only other venue is through the OCL. D14 is meeting the OCL today, so it will be up to her to articulate her concerns and issues, and then up to the OCL to decide how to act. It would be appropriate for the OP to talk to the OCL to discuss this issue which has come up, but it would not be appropriate for the OP to enable or encourage D14 to think that she's in charge. (And I would be very wary of going to D14's school today - maybe a phone call to the school office to make sure she wasn't absent today is as far as I would go. Emotions are running high, and you don't need more potential confrontations (and the school doesn't want that either, I can guarantee)).

I can't stress how important it is to not let the kids drive the bus. It's clear that there's a lot of hostility between Dad and Mom (and her family) - Dad thinks Mom is "batshit crazy" and Grandpa is an "a$$hole", and they probably return the favor - and I'm guessing D14 has picked this up. Right now Mom is the bad guy. This could turn on a dime tomorrow, especially if Dad has strict house rules or does something D14 doesn't like: suddenly Mom and Granddad don't seem so bad anymore, and D14 wants to go "home". I have see this happen repeatedly. How would Dad feel if Mom said "D14 says she doesn't want to stay with you any more, so I'm terminating her contact with you"?

I agree with the other posters that it's important to find out the "why" of D14's desire to live with Dad, but given that there's already been a lot of CAS involvement with this family and they haven't found anything, I don't think it's likely that there is abuse or neglect going on at the other home (if there is, CAS needs to be informed). The solution to this situation may lie in modifying D14's residence with her parents, but it definitely does not lie in letting her decide where to live. Her input, yes; her decision, no.

Stripes, thank you... will think on this.

The "why" of D14 is because she has always been closer to me. It is as simple as that. Once it was clear that the dad she knew was NOT gone, and was able to gain a broader perspective, she seemed to have made her decision.

I will say, when D14 would fight with STBX, she would say to me (years ago), "Dad, if you and mom divorce" (we were fighting) " I want to live with you ok ?"

So I think we are back to that point.

[blinkandimgone]

You have no idea that I have no idea. It's not sanctimonious, it's experience.

Perhaps consider what you would want, do and expect if/when the shoe is on the other foot.

[Links17]

You have no idea that I have no idea. It's not sanctimonious, it's experience.

Perhaps consider what you would want, do and expect if/when the shoe is on the other foot.

You are basing what you say on the assumption the mother's house and care is good. It is POSSIBLE the mom sucks right?

[stripes]

Stripes, thank you... will think on this.

The "why" of D14 is because she has always been closer to me. It is as simple as that. Once it was clear that the dad she knew was NOT gone, and was able to gain a broader perspective, she seemed to have made her decision.

I will say, when D14 would fight with STBX, she would say to me (years ago), "Dad, if you and mom divorce" (we were fighting) " I want to live with you ok ?"

So I think we are back to that point.

This what a lot of other posters have been trying to convey - 14 year olds should not make these decisions, any more than they should make decisions about whether or not to go to school, or whether to stay out at parties all night. 14 year olds may have input, but they should not be driving these buses.

Just a thought (and I am really not trying to harp on you, just to throw in some perspectives): if Mom really is volatile and unreasomable, and D14 has been living with Mom for a while, D14 may have picked up from her mother that this is the way to get things done: insist on having your way (pack your bags and go to Dad's) and back it up with emotional reasoning ("I hate Mom, so I'm going to live with Dad"). Mom sounds like the kind of person who thinks rules and procedures don't apply to her, and D14 may be picking up that way of thinking, even if D14 isn't consciously trying to emulate Mom. (In other words, it sounds like Mom is a lot like a fourteen year old herself).

This is all the more reason to show D14 how reasonable people (unlike Mom) handle these situations - they follow through on their obligations (like court orders), they use appropriate channels, they don't let their emotions run the show.

[Links17]

Some of this is garbage.

If your daughter wants to live with you and it isnt over a stupid reason then welcome and accept her with open arms. 14 isnt a baby, she is old enough to know who she wants to live with. What is the worst that happens?

Who the hell said living with the mom was right in the first place some crusty old judge and child abduction doesnt make anything right.

[plainNamedDad44]

This what a lot of other posters have been trying to convey - 14 year olds should not make these decisions, any more than they should make decisions about whether or not to go to school, or whether to stay out at parties all night. 14 year olds may have input, but they should not be driving these buses.

Just a thought (and I am really not trying to harp on you, just to throw in some perspectives): if Mom really is volatile and unreasomable, and D14 has been living with Mom for a while, D14 may have picked up from her mother that this is the way to get things done: insist on having your way (pack your bags and go to Dad's) and back it up with emotional reasoning ("I hate Mom, so I'm going to live with Dad"). Mom sounds like the kind of person who thinks rules and procedures don't apply to her, and D14 may be picking up that way of thinking, even if D14 isn't consciously trying to emulate Mom. (In other words, it sounds like Mom is a lot like a fourteen year old herself).

This is all the more reason to show D14 how reasonable people (unlike Mom) handle these situations - they follow through on their obligations (like court orders), they use appropriate channels, they don't let their emotions run the show.

No emulation. My D14 wants out. Simple as that. She is bright. Exceptional actually. If she is to learn anything here its to stand up for herself.

[plainNamedDad44]

Some of this is garbage.

If your daughter wants to live with you and it isnt over a stupid reason then welcome and accept her with open arms. 14 isnt a baby, she is old enough to know who she wants to live with. What is the worst that happens?

My thoughts exactly. I know what my children are living through.

Who the hell said living with the mom was right in the first place some crusty old judge and child abduction doesnt make anything right.

No order for custody or primary residence has been made.

Long story short, I wouldn't let my D14 do anything for the wrong reason. I really see this as the best thing for her, and unlike STBX, I don't lie or deceive.

[rockscan]

People who havent lived in the situation your daughter is living in have a hard time understanding her desire to get out. Its not some teenage dont want to follow the rules situation. If her mother is anything like mine was I can imagine what its like in that house. I ran away a couple of times at 14 & 16 because I couldnt handle it anymore. If I said I didnt want to talk about my father, the case, the lawyer, our finances, I was public enemy #1. For your daughter its probably every time something is said about you. Plus shes the oldest right? Shes got a sense of obligation to her siblings and if theyre alienated then they follow moms disregard toward her. I commend her for not only having the courage to stand up to it but also for going back in that house Sunday night. She is a very brave kid and I sincerely hope that OCL and a judge help her and any of your other children who want out.