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  • #16
    To update GF's situation on this.....Revenue Canada did send her a letter requesting proof that child lived with her, to make sure their CCTB calculations were correct/being given to her correctly (So her ex must have contacted them)

    GF sent Revenue Canada their Court Order proving that child lived with her....and everything has remained the same with her CCTB.

    Her ex continues to run his "under the table" business. He posts advertisements for this business on kijiji and has a webpage for his business. Would this be enough proof for her to contact Revenue Canada on him? or go to Court for a Child Support increase?
    She doesn't plan on doing either....but just wondering what kinds of proof someone would actually need to do so in these situations?

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Mess View Post
      Ideally you should provide the full tax return. The issue is calculation of section 7 expenses, which split according to total income, not just line 150. So things like CCTB and other non-taxable income would need to be known.
      Are you sure Mess? I specifically asked my lawyer this question regarding support. To keep it easy numbers, if ex makes $60,000 and I make $15,000.

      Then ex pays me $10,000 in spousal, is our proportionate to income then $50,000 to $25,000 (which would make sense since this is taxable)? He specifically said no. That section 7 is only calculated on gross employment income. No support. No CCTB.

      Thoughts?

      Comment


      • #18
        I am not a lawyer, but I employ a completely qualified family law lawyer from a firm specialized in family law; I am also in the accounting field. I can only say that in my experience, and according to all professional advice I have received, and according to all acounting practices I have been educated in, and my understanding of the legislation involved, that section 7 expenses are calculated according all gross income, any and all subsidies, tax credits, deductions, and refunds. This has been confirmed by the judgements of the Ontario justices that have been involved of my case.

        If your lawyer is using a different analysis, if it were me, I would ask for some justification.

        Comment


        • #19
          I will ask again Mess to ensure it isn't my misunderstanding. The way I have written it above certainly doesn't seem fair to my ex, especially given he pays spousal and child support. I would think proportionate to income should be after all those things and support payments. After all it is money that I have to spend that he does not.

          I feel like I was clear to my lawyer but since it will become a bigger issue for me very soon, I will check in with him again.

          Thanks so much for answering.

          Comment


          • #20
            OK, this question has be bugging me for a bit. Does anybody have explicit information on how to calculate Section 7? I understand what Mess is saying, but for me, I am wondering if my Child Support paid is taken off my gross income for calculations?

            Example:

            Father makes $105K / Year, Mother makes $55K / Year, Father pays $5K / Year on offset guideline support.

            For Section 7, would it be $100 / $60 = 62.5% (to take into account the child support) or $105 / $55 = 65.6%?

            My ex spouse is argumentative about this, and refuses to include her income in this calculation, seems her lawyer is just as argumentative and is forcing it to a motion, but suspect that she will "settle" at the last possible moment (i.e. the court house).

            Comment


            • #21
              Section 7 is separate from CS and is calculated off line 150 typically.
              You have to look at the PERCENTAGE OF TOTAL

              So in your example...

              Total = 105 + 55 = 160

              Father = 105/160 = 65.6
              Mother = 55/160 = 34.3

              Comment


              • #22
                Family Law Act ONTARIO REGULATION 391/97 CHILD SUPPORT GUIDELINES

                Special or extraordinary expenses
                <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .droit de la famille (Loi sur le) - Règl. de l'Ont. 391/97. -->7. <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .droit de la famille (Loi sur le) - Règl. de l'Ont. 391/97. -->(1) In an order for the support of a child, the court may, on the request of either parent or spouse or of an applicant under section 33 of the Act, provide for an amount to cover all or any portion of the following expenses, which expenses may be estimated, taking into account the necessity of the expense in relation to the child’s best interests and the reasonableness of the expense in relation to the means of the parents or spouses and those of the child and to the spending pattern of the parents or spouses in respect of the child during cohabitation:
                (a) child care expenses incurred as a result of the custodial parent’s employment, illness, disability or education or training for employment;
                (b) that portion of the medical and dental insurance premiums attributable to the child;
                (c) health-related expenses that exceed insurance reimbursement by at least $100 annually, including orthodontic treatment, professional counselling provided by a psychologist, social worker, psychiatrist or any other person, physiotherapy, occupational therapy, speech therapy, prescription drugs, hearing aids, glasses and contact lenses;
                (d) extraordinary expenses for primary or secondary school education or for any other educational programs that meet the child’s particular needs;
                (e) expenses for post-secondary education; and
                (f) extraordinary expenses for extracurricular activities. O. Reg. 391/97, s. 7 (1); O. Reg. 446/01, s. 2.
                Definition, “extraordinary expenses”
                <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .droit de la famille (Loi sur le) - Règl. de l'Ont. 391/97. -->(1.1) For the purposes of clauses (1) (d) and (f),
                “extraordinary expenses” means
                (a) expenses that exceed those that the parent or spouse requesting an amount for the extraordinary expenses can reasonably cover, taking into account that parent’s or spouse’s income and the amount that the parent or spouse would receive under the applicable table or, where the court has determined that the table amount is inappropriate, the amount that the court has otherwise determined is appropriate, or
                (b) where clause (a) is not applicable, expenses that the court considers are extraordinary taking into account,
                (i) the amount of the expense in relation to the income of the parent or spouse requesting the amount, including the amount that the parent or spouse would receive under the applicable table or, where the court has determined that the table amount is inappropriate, the amount that the court has otherwise determined is appropriate,
                (ii) the nature and number of the educational programs and extracurricular activities,
                (iii) any special needs and talents of the child,
                (iv) the overall cost of the programs and activities, and
                (v) any other similar factors that the court considers relevant. O. Reg. 102/06, s. 1.
                Sharing of expense
                <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .droit de la famille (Loi sur le) - Règl. de l'Ont. 391/97. -->(2) The guiding principle in determining the amount of an expense referred to in subsection (1) is that the expense is shared by the parents or spouses in proportion to their respective incomes after deducting from the expense, the contribution, if any, from the child. O. Reg. 391/97, s. 7 (2).
                Subsidies, tax deductions, etc.
                <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .droit de la famille (Loi sur le) - Règl. de l'Ont. 391/97. -->(3) Subject to subsection (4), in determining the amount of an expense referred to in subsection (1), the court must take into account any subsidies, benefits or income tax deductions or credits relating to the expense, and any eligibility to claim a subsidy, benefit or income tax deduction or credit relating to the expense. O. Reg. 159/07, s. 2.
                Universal child care benefit
                <!-- TRANSIT - HYPERLINK --><!-- .droit de la famille (Loi sur le) - Règl. de l'Ont. 391/97. -->(4) In determining the amount of an expense referred to in subsection (1), the court shall not take into account any universal child care benefit or any eligibility to claim that benefit. O. Reg. 159/07, s. 2.
                Pay attention to subsection (3). Tax deductions, tax credits, subsidies, and benefits are taken into account for the calculation.

                In order to do this factually, you must exchange your full income tax returns.

                More information on calculating annual income (This link is to the Goverment of Canada page for calculating child support and section 7 expenses step-by-step using worksheets. There are explicit intructions for how to calcualte income, going beyond simply using line 150. If your lawyer is using Divorcemate, it is still necessary to know what figures to enter.)

                Line-by-line help for Worksheet 1 Calculating your annual income

                Comment


                • #23
                  Ah but section 3 says any tax benefit "related to the expense". So if child care is tax deductible, then it is calculated after the tax benefit to each party. I know there have been many posts about this before.

                  Section 4 goes on to say that CCTB does NOT count for Section 7 calculations.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Thu universal child care benfit and canadian child tax credit are two different things. Don't get them confused. Section 4 is NOT referring to CCTB

                    I'm not sure what your first point was about. There have been many posts, yes, most by me. My point with this is to the OP who was asking what documentation should be exchanged.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      See? Damn. This is why I ask for clarification. I did think it was the CCTB. Sorry Mess.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        No prob, everyone is confused and there's always a thread going on. I will put together a sticky with all the info when I get a chance.

                        Comment

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