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  • Separation Agreement - is this one acceptable?

    Hello Everyone,
    I am looking for advice and/or comments from anyone who feels that he/she can help me here. My first reaction to this letter was ... I was stunned and speechless and am considering simply not replying by the date that the lawyer is asking for. But then again I am considering sending her a simple letter saying that I will NOT be able to respond by the deadline (she only gives me LESS than TWO weeks to respond!) Please note my previous posts and take into account that my older son, Conrad, has been struggling in high school since 2010 and has been seen for over a year by a psychiatrist to get help for depression. He is now struggling with alcohol/weed abuse and attending high school for adults on a part-time basis. He also works at Wendy's approximately 10 hours a week.
    Also, please note that I am ill and my ONLY income is LTD from the government of Canada and private insurance. I received a letter from my husband's lawyer today which is also a Separation Agreement (as it seems to me). The letter is one and a half pages long and the Separation Agreement part is as follows:

    "Mr. "K" is hoping that you will be able to resolve all those issues amicably by way of a Separation Agreement. The following are the proposed terms that should be incorporated into the Agreement:
    CHILDREN
    1. I understand that Conrad is no longer in school and supporting himself, while Alexander is completing High School and planning on going to College this fall. Apparently his choice is to reside with you. Mr. K. will certainly pay child support for |Alexander until he finishes school and, as I undertand, ther is an RESP in place that will cover the education expenses. I enclose a copy of my client's T-4 for 2011 for which shows a gross income of $33,554.87. Bases on that amount, the child supoprt payable for one child is $287.00 per month. The support will commence after the sale of matrimonial home.
    2. There would be an exchange of income information by the end of June each year and the support would be adjusted based on the current income information.
    3. Since your incomes are more or less equal, there will be a mutual final release of spousal support.
    4. Since the sale of your matrimonial home is scheduled to close on July 2, 2012, the net proceeds of sale, after having paid the mortgage, line of credit and costs of sale, will be divided equally between the two of you.
    5. your husband will keep the 2002 Honda and tools, while you will have a choice of most of the furniture an contents of the home.
    6. Each of you will be responsible for your individual debts, if any. I understand that M.r K. has an outstanding balance on his credit card in the amount of approx. $2,000.
    Please review this proposal with your lawyer and have him or her contact my office on or before April 30, 2012. Please note that if I do not hear from you or your lawyer by 4:00 p.m. on April 30th, 2012 Mr. K. will have to consider commencing a Court Application. We hope that will not be necessary."

    I really thank each one of you who is willing to give me his/her input in this case.
    Margaret

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  • #2
    Well unless you give us more information (your side of things) I'd say the letter sounds quite reasonable and straightforward. How old is your son? It seems to me that you are literate, can type well and should have no problem putting something together in the new few weeks.

    Comment


    • #3
      How is he affording a lawyer on his salary? How old is eldest son? 10 hrs a week at Wendy's hardly implies he is self-sufficient. Are there any costs associated with the counseling your son is getting?
      Has your ex's income historically been under 35k per year?

      It would be best to avoid Court if at all possible. If you each have equal debts and can split the assets down the middle - would be good to consider settling. I didn't know lawyers gave drop-dead dates like that, as a rule. What is YOUR gut feeling about the proposed offer? What (if anything) would you accept about it - or not accept? Finally, if you were to propose an offer to him - what would that offer include, point by point? Jot this down as an "exercise" and just be really honest with yourself. See what you come up with.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by arabian View Post
        Well unless you give us more information (your side of things) I'd say the letter sounds quite reasonable and straightforward. How old is your son? It seems to me that you are literate, can type well and should have no problem putting something together in the new few weeks.
        Thank you very much for your comment Arabian. My older son (Conrad) is 19 now. What I am disagreeing here with is that the lawyer did not mention anything about extended health benefits (which I need for my medication), life insurance and financial statements. I have almost $30K debt on my credit cards which I feel that 1/3 of is for day-to-day living expenses and that I would want to split with my husband, and the fact that Conrad may go back to school and college full time - we are both desperately working on this.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by hadenough View Post
          How is he affording a lawyer on his salary? How old is eldest son? 10 hrs a week at Wendy's hardly implies he is self-sufficient. Are there any costs associated with the counseling your son is getting?
          Has your ex's income historically been under 35k per year?

          It would be best to avoid Court if at all possible. If you each have equal debts and can split the assets down the middle - would be good to consider settling. I didn't know lawyers gave drop-dead dates like that, as a rule. What is YOUR gut feeling about the proposed offer? What (if anything) would you accept about it - or not accept? Finally, if you were to propose an offer to him - what would that offer include, point by point? Jot this down as an "exercise" and just be really honest with yourself. See what you come up with.
          Thank you very much for your input Headeanough. My husband's income has been like this most of the time. I do not intend to hire a lawyer because I simply do not have any money. What do you think will happen if I do not respond by deadline and court proceedings are commenced? Would I then be in a worse situation than accepting the offer?

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          • #6
            M.K. - how long have you and your husband been separated for? You definitely have the lion's share of the debt. You raise some valid concerns. Allow for some members here to give you some wise advice before you proceed with anything (of course).

            Comment


            • #7
              No, you would be the Respondent. There was a thread posted awhile back (I believe responded to by "Tayken") that outlined some advantages of being the **Respondent. Check into that. I think the letter should be acknowledged, as a courtesy but that doesn't mean you are agreeing to it. The thing here is: clearly - neither of you can afford for this thing to go through the Legal Wringer (Court). The sky won't fall if you don't respond - but you will need to attend Court after they have filed the Application. If you can sort out a fair distribution of the debts - stay as far away from going to Court as possible. You will both be a lot better off, financially. That's a given... (P.S. I think the thread that had "Respondent info" was titled "Ex Filed First" - can't remember who posted it)
              Last edited by hadenough; 04-16-2012, 08:01 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Margaret-Krupa View Post
                Thank you very much for your comment Arabian. My older son (Conrad) is 19 now. What I am disagreeing here with is that the lawyer did not mention anything about extended health benefits (which I need for my medication), life insurance and financial statements. I have almost $30K debt on my credit cards which I feel that 1/3 of is for day-to-day living expenses and that I would want to split with my husband, and the fact that Conrad may go back to school and college full time - we are both desperately working on this.

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                First off, sorry about your sons addictions. You feel that 1/3 of your debt was for day to day living expenses? Sorry but courts dont deal with feelings, they deal with facts so you would have to prove it. As for your oldest son, he is 19 and not in school, he may go back to school or he may not. You cant expect your stbx to pay for him since he is now 19. I would try to get it worded though that if he goes back to school (and really tries, just isnt a body in a classroom) the CS or some sort of support would be paid to help with that. Realistically until your child gets control of his life, he probably wont be going back to school. Maybe time for some tough love there.

                the bonus thing is that you know what your ex wants to so are prepared to counter offer.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks SOS: a very important point to remember - that Courts don't deal with feelings, they deal with facts. Hopefully the OP can settle things - it sounds like both parties would be in financial ruin if this went to Court.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    My opinions - whether you want to fight on this is your choice
                    - I'd say Conrad is still in school and is NOT self-sufficient. 10h/wk is a typical high-school job load. HOWEVER - you are fighting over $2400 i.e. an extra $200/mo for maybe 1 year (unless you think it likely that he will go to university after finishing high school)
                    - Don't agree with delaying CS - unless you are benefiting from cheap living in the house until the sale closes. If you don't put it on record NOW that you feel that CS should be payable now, then you make it very hard for yourself to pursue retro-CS later.
                    - Give up on the health plan - no longer his problem (especially if he finds a new partner)
                    - Give up on the insurance on his life (it's only a matter of 5 years before kids are out of school)
                    - No comment on the debt (not enough info), but you are fighting over $5K (1/2 of 1/3 of $30K). If you pursue it, you will need to give some hard numbers by cranking through all your past statements.
                    - WHO put money into the RESP? If he put in a significant portion, then I agree with his claim. Do the math to figure out if his contribution will cover at least 1/3 of the tuition/books.
                    - Suggest just adding a line that CS will be adjusted automatically on June 1 each year based on the most recent NOA, which he will provide each year.

                    Sorry I can't comment on anything else that was missing that you expected to see there (don't presume that responders are reading all your old posts).
                    Last edited by dinkyface; 04-16-2012, 08:49 PM.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=dinkyface;92212]- I'd say Conrad is still in school and is NOT self-sufficient. 10h/wk is a typical high-school job load.agree with his claim.
                      - Suggest just adding a line that CS will be adjusted automatically on June 1 each year based on the most recent NOA, which he will provide each year.

                      [QUOTE]
                      i thought to be considered to be "in school" it has to be full time studies, he is only at school part time.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hadenough View Post
                        M.K. - how long have you and your husband been separated for? You definitely have the lion's share of the debt. You raise some valid concerns. Allow for some members here to give you some wise advice before you proceed with anything (of course).
                        Thank you very much for your response Hadeough. Me and my husband are still living in same house and although he claims that we have separated 2 years ago I do not agree with this. Until now I am still doing his laundry, cook for him and arrange his affairs - traditionally in our marriage I was and still am the one how would look after management of our household: I took care of investments, financials, career (I always looked for and applied for his jobs and prepared him and his portfolio for job interviews). I helped him to find his latest job at which he has been for a year and a few months now. We do sleep in separate rooms however. I would agree to our separation date being January 1, 2012 because that is when we both agreed to put our house on sale which (once again I arranged everything) we did in February. My debt is really big and I feel that my ex should participate in paying 1/6th of it (considering 1/3 of the debt being house expenses - I also spend $1500 on two crowns on my front teeth - but I will not challenge that). I need to find a place for me and our sons: although Alex and Conrad have an RESP account set up (which once again I started and made sure that money was put aside there) but there is not a huge lot there for the two boys considering high cost of education now. I estimate the fund to be $20K. If Alex will continue his education at University as planned and if Conrad gets into college next year - this money will not last too long. That i why I would NOT agree for my EX to just "brush himself off" from participating in paying for my sons' education.
                        And I am really worried about my financial situation - looking after two teenagers and dealing with my illness and Conrad's problems with addiction - all these challenges make it even more difficult and my ex told me many times that MY Financial situation WILL be MUCH better than his when we separate... (My income is $2000 per year more than his).

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                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hadenough View Post
                          No, you would be the Respondent. There was a thread posted awhile back (I believe responded to by "Tayken") that outlined some advantages of being the **Respondent. Check into that. I think the letter should be acknowledged, as a courtesy but that doesn't mean you are agreeing to it. The thing here is: clearly - neither of you can afford for this thing to go through the Legal Wringer (Court). The sky won't fall if you don't respond - but you will need to attend Court after they have filed the Application. If you can sort out a fair distribution of the debts - stay as far away from going to Court as possible. You will both be a lot better off, financially. That's a given... (P.S. I think the thread that had "Respondent info" was titled "Ex Filed First" - can't remember who posted it)
                          Thank you so much for your input hadeoungh! This information really changed my mind about feeling almost like "lucky-go-happy" chick not hesitating to go to court. I will definitely try to settle, although I do not have any money (or credit available) to hire a lawyer so I need to do this all by myself. I will go to a legal clinic but that is all I can do as far as lawyer's advice goes.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dinkyface View Post
                            My opinions - whether you want to fight on this is your choice
                            - I'd say Conrad is still in school and is NOT self-sufficient. 10h/wk is a typical high-school job load. HOWEVER - you are fighting over $2400 i.e. an extra $200/mo for maybe 1 year (unless you think it likely that he will go to university after finishing high school)
                            - Don't agree with delaying CS - unless you are benefiting from cheap living in the house until the sale closes. If you don't put it on record NOW that you feel that CS should be payable now, then you make it very hard for yourself to pursue retro-CS later.
                            - Give up on the health plan - no longer his problem (especially if he finds a new partner)
                            - Give up on the insurance on his life (it's only a matter of 5 years before kids are out of school)
                            - No comment on the debt (not enough info), but you are fighting over $5K (1/2 of 1/3 of $30K). If you pursue it, you will need to give some hard numbers by cranking through all your past statements.
                            - WHO put money into the RESP? If he put in a significant portion, then I agree with his claim. Do the math to figure out if his contribution will cover at least 1/3 of the tuition/books.
                            - Suggest just adding a line that CS will be adjusted automatically on June 1 each year based on the most recent NOA, which he will provide each year.

                            Sorry I can't comment on anything else that was missing that you expected to see there (don't presume that responders are reading all your old posts).
                            Thank you for your response. I am taking your advice to heart. You really opened my eyes here. It feels now that I am on my way to see more clearly through this muggy legal swamp of rules, rights and what you "can" and "cannot". Thank you again. By the way, I put all the money into RESP. A lot of the money I received from my mother and I set up a monthly contribution of $100 for the last 12 years - the money however was taken out from our joint account.
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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by hadenough View Post
                              How is he affording a lawyer on his salary? How old is eldest son? 10 hrs a week at Wendy's hardly implies he is self-sufficient. Are there any costs associated with the counseling your son is getting?
                              Has your ex's income historically been under 35k per year?

                              It would be best to avoid Court if at all possible. If you each have equal debts and can split the assets down the middle - would be good to consider settling. I didn't know lawyers gave drop-dead dates like that, as a rule. What is YOUR gut feeling about the proposed offer? What (if anything) would you accept about it - or not accept? Finally, if you were to propose an offer to him - what would that offer include, point by point? Jot this down as an "exercise" and just be really honest with yourself. See what you come up with.
                              Headeough this note is re: "how can he afford a lawyer on his salary". I know how expensive it is to hire a lawyer so I was wondering that myself, however keep in mind that my ex will cash approximately 130K from the proceeds of sale of our house. The house was almost paid off thanks to my mother's help. She gave me over 50K over the last 12years, some of which I deposited into my sons' RESP. My mother also gave us 10K to pay off our Honda which my husband is keeping now. So, that is why my EX is probably not extremely worried about where he is going to get the money from for the lawyers. Also, he has a big property parcel in Poland worth almost 1 million Canadian dollars. The property is 75% in his mother's name and 25% in his. He is trying to sell the land but has a hard time (he is asking too much money for it - offers come but not to his satisfaction). As you can see my ex is not in danger of being homeless yet he is quite stingy with giving anything (unfortunately this also includes love and affection... sorry if I appear a self-pity chick here...). And having known him for 25 years I know that he would rather part with his money than lose a battle - ANY battle - and he is the kind of person who considers anyone who does not agree with him a "silly" guy/gal, will critisize them and definitely will not stay in a good relationship with these people.
                              And I just realized, that I maybe I am too descriptive of my situation... Please forgive me if this is so - I am going through a very emotional time now - anger is still strong - especially that my ex has been openly searching for a "new" woman to replace me for the last two years. and he does not understand that it hurts me when I see this - he just laughs at me that I am "too sensitive" and should forget about him as his partner. It it just hard to be under one roof in this situation and he was not willing to move out because "it would not be convenient" for him - this is exactly what he said.

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