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  • #16
    Originally posted by 1ati2de View Post
    So i have to pay for this crap for this amount of time regardless on how much money she gets from this relationship for pretty much doing nothing to help the family out financially for 3/4 of the time we are together??
    Lots of people here will understand and empathize with your sentiments. However, looking to the past now will do you no good and fuming over things like this will likely just give you a stroke or coronary. Assess the current situation, explore your options, and then move forward.

    If you're not familiar with the economic concept of "sunk costs", now would be the time to get acquainted to it. Treat the years of being with her as "sunk costs", and you'll see that wasting any more time, money or effort trying to address or gain something out of her past actions/inaction is pointless and detrimental to you moving forward and getting somewhere.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
      You can be as angry as you want about this but I'm sure she'd say that you and your child benefited from her staying home. And I'm sure on some level you did.
      Well I can honestly state without a doubt in my mind and also from my sons point of view there was absolutely NO benefit what so ever of her staying with him. When I stated to him a few weeks back that I was going to separate when he was 5 he went on a mini tyrant. Why didn't you leave back then and I would have come with you.(never would have happened in the courts eyes) The constant nagging and physiological abuse she has done to him has created way too much hatred in his heart for her that I'm working on with him to curb. He has 2 parents and that will never change.

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      • #18
        That may very well be true. I'm simply saying its probably what she'll argue when you try to impute an income and likely it will be a successful argument for her.

        Trust me, my ex re-invented our entire history in our divorce case...its just par for the course. Either she truly may view your marital history differently or she'll make whatever argument is necessary to get the maximum amount of SS she is eligible for.

        What you need to do is put aside the anger and resentment as much as you can and concentrate on the actionable items...not the irrelevant things she'll imply. Actionable items including trying to impute an income to her and trying to get CS to help offset (at least for a couple years) what you'll probably have to pay her in SS.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by 1ati2de View Post
          So our court systems and family values mean nothing in this country? In a nice way its stated that any issues in marriage run for the hills?
          "Family values" are not enforced by the courts. Thank God.

          You chose to have a relationship because of your family values. The courts did not force you to.

          You chose to get married because of your family values. The courts did not force you to.

          You chose to have a child because of your family values. The court did not force you to.

          You chose to be the breadwinner because of your family values. The court did not force you to.

          You chose to stay in a dead-end situation because of your family values. The court did not force you to.

          However, the current situation is the fault of the court, not the fault of your family values.

          Right.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mess View Post
            "Family values" are not enforced by the courts. Thank God.

            You chose to have a relationship because of your family values. The courts did not force you to.

            You chose to get married because of your family values. The courts did not force you to.

            You chose to have a child because of your family values. The court did not force you to.

            You chose to be the breadwinner because of your family values. The court did not force you to.

            You chose to stay in a dead-end situation because of your family values. The court did not force you to.

            However, the current situation is the fault of the court, not the fault of your family values.

            Right.
            Wait a minute now I'm not stating that they are connected together however I did stay together BECAUSE of my son. ONLY to raise him in some what of a normal environment that most of us know.

            So you are telling me that I would have lasted this long if we didn't have him?? Right! So in this country in front of the courts ones opinion on what a family or normal family should mean nothing.

            Now the courts don't assist me in dealing with her not working but will gladly tell me I have to pay SS. That is not in my family values either but they can stick their nose into my affairs also.

            Live and learn is always the way to do it.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by 1ati2de View Post
              Wait a minute now I'm not stating that they are connected together however I did stay together BECAUSE of my son. ONLY to raise him in some what of a normal environment that most of us know.

              So you are telling me that I would have lasted this long if we didn't have him?? Right! So in this country in front of the courts ones opinion on what a family or normal family should mean nothing.

              Now the courts don't assist me in dealing with her not working but will gladly tell me I have to pay SS. That is not in my family values either but they can stick their nose into my affairs also.

              Live and learn is always the way to do it.
              Like it or not, you chose to marry, which is a legal situation governed by the laws of the land and adjudicated by the courts. You also chose to stay, knowing she wasn't contributing. You could have at any time during the marriage looked for the information about the consequences of staying, or even gotten a free 30 minute consultation about your situation with a family law lawyer. But you chose to stay.

              Getting upset and lashing out will not help anything or change anything. It may alientate people here who may be trying to help you.

              Comment


              • #22
                Now the courts don't assist me in dealing with her not working but will gladly tell me I have to pay SS. That is not in my family values either but they can stick their nose into my affairs also.
                No the courts cannot force a person to work...nor can they force a man to stay with a spouse who won't. You both made those choices.

                That is not in my family values either but they can stick their nose into my affairs also.
                It obviously is in your family values because you had a very long marriage even after she stopped working. And they aren't "sticking their noses into your affairs." Divorce is a legal action...much like your marriage contract. The only difference being that you need only one person who wants a divorce rather than two...however, you have to comply with the laws of both.

                So in this country in front of the courts ones opinion on what a family or normal family should mean nothing.
                I'm divorced and consider my family as very normal. The definition you to describe a "normal family" is yours and no, it shouldn't/doesn't mean anything to the court.

                Wait a minute now I'm not stating that they are connected together however I did stay together BECAUSE of my son. ONLY to raise him in some what of a normal environment that most of us know.
                You keep throwing the word "normal" around but your definition is very subjective. I have girls...and normal in my family means that you learn how to work and earn some kind of a living. If my ex-husband hadn't worked, I guarantee you that it wouldn't have taken me more than 3-4 months to start divorce proceedings. Of course, my ex-husband staying home would have provided no value to me as he wasn't capable of cleaning, cooking or taking care of our children.

                Bottom line, you can't expect the court to penalize her financially for what you defined your marriage to be. And yes, you did that by choosing to stay regardless of what the excuse is. It would be much healthier for you to accept what role you played...even if unintentional...rather than to be so angry with the court which isn't responsible for your personal choices.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Unfortunately very few people take the time to learn and understand family law when they get married and stay married. Instead the hard lessons come during divorce when they learn the consequences of all the decisions they ever made during the marriage that seemed to work well at the time, but were actually setting them up for disaster.

                  I know if I knew the law then like I do now, we would have made different choices in my marriage. I think you're coming to the same realization. Very sorry

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I know if I knew the law then like I do now, we would have made different choices in my marriage. I think you're coming to the same realization. Very sorry
                    Unfortunately, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

                    There's no doubt that everyone should at least read the Divorce Act before they get married and talk to a couple of people who've been through it.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post

                      Bottom line, you can't expect the court to penalize her financially for what you defined your marriage to be. And yes, you did that by choosing to stay regardless of what the excuse is. It would be much healthier for you to accept what role you played...even if unintentional...rather than to be so angry with the court which isn't responsible for your personal choices.
                      I'm not angry with so much what the court would say as i am angry for the time which she might be awarded, 10-15 years of support is nuts because its only been 11 years that I have supported her upon our mutual agreement. 5 Years I would have no problem but now I see why people change their carriers and take lesser paying ones.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by DowntroddenDad View Post

                        Getting upset and lashing out will not help anything or change anything. It may alientate people here who may be trying to help you.
                        Id like to thank everyone for all the help as I'm not lashing out but educating myself on what is to come. I'm not angry because I have learned that I should have got out much earlier and not to worry about my son. In an odd way its very sad and very true.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
                          Unfortunately, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

                          There's no doubt that everyone should at least read the Divorce Act before they get married and talk to a couple of people who've been through it.
                          They should make this type of education mandatory in schools.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by 1ati2de View Post
                            Id like to thank everyone for all the help as I'm not lashing out but educating myself on what is to come. I'm not angry because I have learned that I should have got out much earlier and not to worry about my son. In an odd way its very sad and very true.
                            The thing is, what is done is done. You can't go back and make the decision again. I know, I went through all of that.

                            Your son needs you to be positive and focussed on the future.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              They should make this type of education mandatory in schools.
                              I think they should probably just make it mandatory when someone requests a marriage license. They have pre-marital clinics in some churches, etc. There should be a pre-marital class on what the divorce laws are. That way you can do a mental double-check on whether or not you really want to marry that person and whether you've picked the right person to have kids with.

                              Trust me, I am not unsympathetic. My ex lost 100s of thousands in my marriage of my hard earned money that I cannot recover now. (I still have legal action pending trying to get some of it back). I spent a long time right after separation remembering how many days I left my very little children to work and earn a living so that my ex could squander my money day-trading. Listen to them cry for me when I dropped them off, etc. I've long since come to accept my own part in letting him get away with it by handing over my paychecks and not asking for a full accounting of what he was doing with the money.

                              But despite everything, I'm extremely happy in my divorced life. But to get there, you have to let the baggage and resentment go. Its just not worth staying mad and having a crappy past marriage affect your future life. When you know better, you do better. It takes time and practice but believe that your life will improve if you take a deep breath and let the negativity go.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                For spousal support, there is a lot of room for negotiation and specific circumstances. It isn't nearly as black and white as child support is.

                                From the situation you describe, a woman who stayed at home for 16 years even when she was supposed to only be off work for 5 would likely be entitled to spousal support. No matter how much you disapproved of this and the motive you had for staying anyway, the fact is that you supported her for that long, and she will have a hard time re-entering the workforce. That is not to say that she shouldn't try however!

                                People on the forum are giving you a worst case scenario that a judge could possibly order you to pay spousal support indefinitely (because she is 46 and the marriage was for 20 years, she just barely passes the informal 'rule of 65') in order to prepare you for the worst. But this isn't guaranteed, it's only a possibility. Usually this happens when a marriage was clearly 'traditional' in that the man and woman both expected and planned for the woman to be a housewife all her life.

                                However, this will only happen to you if you roll over and let it. Go to MySupportCalculator.ca and put in some numbers and play with it. You will see that it gives you a range of payment values and durations. Your ex will fight for the maximum amount and duration, and you will fight for the minimums. Not to mention, a fight in court in front of a judge only happens if you cannot first come to an agreement yourselves.

                                Offer her the low point for a finite five years. Your rationale would be that this supports her for the same length of time you had originally agreed for her to be off work after the child was born, and it is sufficient time for someone to get a new university degree or update and upgrade whatever credentials she had before, and find employment. As your son intends to live with you and is old enough to make this choice, she no longer has child care reasons to avoid working. If she argues that she can't work because of her injury, suggest that her new education be in a field that involves computer operation as she has proven capable of that, or that she investigate disability benefits through her physician.

                                The law doesn't see that you accepted her laziness only to give your son a nuclear family. It sees that you agreed to support her till death do you part, did so for 15 years, and that if you stop doing so now, she is at a severe disadvantage to supporting herself. Think of the spousal support as the rest of the price you are paying to have given your son that nuclear family that mattered so much to you. Each cheque you give her is a payment towards that childhood you gave him. It's just after the fact, that's all.

                                But make your offer. See what she says. She may leap at the offer of money, you never know. Or she may begin to negotiate with you. Just keep in mind that a judge is quite likely to order spousal support, and court itself is expensive, so agreeing out of court to pay her some spousal support could still be overall cheaper for you.

                                Don't mention it during negotiations, but she will owe you CS to support her son who will live with you. At the very least, your spousal support will be used as her income for that calculation, so you'd be getting some money back for a while.

                                It's easy to be bitter but your emotions aren't going to change the system, so you are going to have to set aside your bitterness (try therapy) and focus on negotiating. At least you are getting out after 11 years, and not staying longer!

                                Comment

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