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  • CAS/Disclosure and children's wishes regarding their files.

    Hello community,

    Try this one on for size.

    Facts:

    1. Final order for D17, S16, S15, D13 regarding custody. Its joint.
    2. Final order for D17, S16, S15, D13 regarding access. They reside with me as long as they like and see their mom at their discretion.
    3. OCL is no longer involved as the issues pertaining to the children are done.


    What's happening now:

    1. STBX has requested and received disclosure from CAS regarding the four children.

    2. The notes I understand contain *alot* of negativity towards STBX, due to STBX's treatment of the children.

    3. STBX's intention appears to be to use disclosure to make a case of parental alienation. This despite CAS and OCL have stated no parental alienation.

    4. As the children have always stated that they do not want there CAS info shared with STBX or used in any court proceeding, the CAS worker indicated that they could plead to the courts that this be disallowed.

    5. The kicker is that the children are no longer represented by the OCL in the matter. They I believe are no longer party (by way of OCL) to the matter. So how do they plead to the courts that they do not wish to have their CAS files used for litigate purposes ?

    Other than the fact that this is more crap to debunk before the courts (time, effort, money), my concern is that the children's info will be pulled into the matter - exacerbating what is already been a circus.


    Any help would be greatly appreciated.

  • #2
    From what I understand (from my partners lawyer), alienation is extremely difficult to prove even with experts saying it. Even if the kids said stuff to STBX, it would be difficult to prove it is alienation or that you have created a situation where you are preventing her from seeing them.

    She can file anything she wants including an argument that the moon is made of cheese. Doesnt mean she will win. Shes simply trying to delay the completion of the matter. You simply respond that the ex has free and total access to the children and you are not impeding their time. A judge will more than likely see through her bs based on all her filings.

    Which brings me to my question...is this all the same motion? Shes simply filing more claims in subsequent conferences? When is your trial date?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rockscan View Post
      From what I understand (from my partners lawyer), alienation is extremely difficult to prove even with experts saying it. Even if the kids said stuff to STBX, it would be difficult to prove it is alienation or that you have created a situation where you are preventing her from seeing them.

      She can file anything she wants including an argument that the moon is made of cheese. Doesnt mean she will win. Shes simply trying to delay the completion of the matter. You simply respond that the ex has free and total access to the children and you are not impeding their time. A judge will more than likely see through her bs based on all her filings.

      Which brings me to my question...is this all the same motion? Shes simply filing more claims in subsequent conferences? When is your trial date?
      TSC is early June 2018. I frankly don't know what she's going to do with the info. But I suspect a claim of parental alienation. But again, final orders are in place.

      Comment


      • #4
        Trial management conference?

        All this stuff she files is it separate motions or just her responses in the overall file?

        Here’s what we were told. My partner has been alienated from his kids. Its actually text book and played out perfectly as it is described by experts. Negative comments and victim statements before the divorce, continued through process, interference and denial of access in first two years, continued negative comments and statements about dad until finally the youngest refused to speak to him and ex played the “I can’t make them” card. He is currently mired in a claim for child support and expenses. He wants to argue for termination because both kids refuse to speak to him. His lawyer said its an uphill battle with $$$$$$$$ involved. Even though his lawyer agrees its textbook he said it isn’t worth the battle or the money. Lawyer would gladly take the money but he has been told to not overspend.

        I say all this because you need to not panic. As difficult as your ex is, this demonstrates just how desperate she is. Even if she could successfully argue alienation she will still have to pay cs and expenses. She has an ambulance chaser for a lawyer who is feeding into her ridiculous behaviour. Take a deep breath and stay focused. Tell the kids the same. They have not been influenced and have the choice to spend time with her.

        Comment


        • #5
          Where is Tayken when you need him I think he could answer this question. Take this with a huge grain of salt as I am no expert, but have dealt with CAS. IMO the file is "not your children's". Your ex asked and received the file legally. You should too, to see what your up against. If your children are concerned about the file and court proceedings then I think the better route is to ask the courts to "seal" the file to protect their privacy. Therefore it would not be available to prying eyes or the public.

          Why is she even litigating this at the age of these children???

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by rockscan View Post
            Trial management conference?
            Trial scheduling conference.

            All this stuff she files is it separate motions or just her responses in the overall file?
            Nothing filed yet, we were just notified of her likely intentions with the disclosure.


            Here’s what we were told. My partner has been alienated from his kids. Its actually text book and played out perfectly as it is described by experts. Negative comments and victim statements before the divorce, continued through process, interference and denial of access in first two years, continued negative comments and statements about dad until finally the youngest refused to speak to him and ex played the “I can’t make them” card. He is currently mired in a claim for child support and expenses. He wants to argue for termination because both kids refuse to speak to him. His lawyer said its an uphill battle with $$$$$$$$ involved. Even though his lawyer agrees its textbook he said it isn’t worth the battle or the money. Lawyer would gladly take the money but he has been told to not overspend.

            I say all this because you need to not panic. As difficult as your ex is, this demonstrates just how desperate she is. Even if she could successfully argue alienation she will still have to pay cs and expenses. She has an ambulance chaser for a lawyer who is feeding into her ridiculous behavior. Take a deep breath and stay focused. Tell the kids the same. They have not been influenced and have the choice to spend time with her.
            thanks for the kind words. Frankly, I would love the kids to see STBX more, I could use the respite !

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by kate331 View Post
              Where is Tayken when you need him I think he could answer this question. Take this with a huge grain of salt as I am no expert, but have dealt with CAS. IMO the file is "not your children's". Your ex asked and received the file legally. You should too, to see what your up against. If your children are concerned about the file and court proceedings then I think the better route is to ask the courts to "seal" the file to protect their privacy. Therefore it would not be available to prying eyes or the public.

              Why is she even litigating this at the age of these children???
              Because, with all respect, STBX :

              1. has a few screws loose.
              2. has deferred matters to a lawyer that cares only about their docket and $$$, and also has a few screws loose.
              3. This lawyer, in my near 5-6 years of self representing is the most dishonest and opportunistic.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by plainNamedDad44 View Post
                Nothing filed yet, we were just notified of her likely intentions with the disclosure.!

                Your case fascinates me for many reasons but mostly for the audacity of your ex so forgive me if I ask a bunch of questions

                How does this happen? She gets a hair-brained idea and her lawyer sends you a letter saying we intend to argue alienation? Or we have received this disclosure and will question?

                I can’t believe the judge on your file hasn’t told her to cut the crap.

                It also worries me because my partners ex has filled her submissions with ridiculous statements that have no proof and we have yet to see a judge who I hope will cut her off at the knees on this bs.

                Power to you brother. You have a road ahead of you but I am so happy you went from not seeing your kids to having them all with you! (As annoying as teens can be!)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rockscan View Post

                  How does this happen?
                  Its simple, the lawyer is juicing, juicing, and juicing. The lawyer has literally been yelled at by judges. She still gets paid.

                  She gets a hair-brained idea and her lawyer sends you a letter saying we intend to argue alienation? Or we have received this disclosure and will question?
                  i don't know what their going to do with it. Kids just don't want it in court

                  I can’t believe the judge on your file hasn’t told her to cut the crap.
                  The impression I get is that Judges don't want to be appealed. So they are minimal in their judgments where they don't have statute to rely on.

                  It also worries me because my partners ex has filled her submissions with ridiculous statements that have no proof and we have yet to see a judge who I hope will cut her off at the knees on this bs.
                  Judges have stated at this point "no further motions without leave of the court". And that the matter should go to trial to put things to rest.

                  Power to you brother. You have a road ahead of you but I am so happy you went from not seeing your kids to having them all with you! (As annoying as teens can be!)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Well the best advice I can give to both you and the kids is to just ignore and file it under the crazy title. Shes grasping and its really sad. She has pushed her kids away through her actions and this simply proves it further.

                    As much as they don’t want her knowing what they said, its out now so they have to just stand tall and live their truth. Nothing they said was a lie and shes going to have to endure reading how much her kids dislike her. Sure she is crazy enough to not take responsibility for her actions but they are brave for being honest. Plus they can reiterate what they said in those interviews in court if necessary.

                    Its done now and all they can do is keep moving forward. Remind them how strong they are and how proud of them you are.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                      Well the best advice I can give to both you and the kids is to just ignore and file it under the crazy title. Shes grasping and its really sad. She has pushed her kids away through her actions and this simply proves it further.

                      As much as they don’t want her knowing what they said, its out now so they have to just stand tall and live their truth. Nothing they said was a lie and shes going to have to endure reading how much her kids dislike her. Sure she is crazy enough to not take responsibility for her actions but they are brave for being honest. Plus they can reiterate what they said in those interviews in court if necessary.

                      Its done now and all they can do is keep moving forward. Remind them how strong they are and how proud of them you are.

                      thanks... sad thing is its just on the eve of mother's day.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                        He wants to argue for termination because both kids refuse to speak to him. His lawyer said its an uphill battle with $$$$$$$$ involved. Even though his lawyer agrees its textbook he said it isn’t worth the battle or the money. Lawyer would gladly take the money but he has been told to not overspend.
                        Opps for getting this thread off track, but is this possible? I have never heard or read anything about doing this. Of course I have heard about Hollywood children asking for emancipation, but never a parent.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          There have been a few cases but judges are not so eager to do it. He is also not wanting to do it as it will destroy any chance of a relationship.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So does anyone know how to plead to the courts that the children do not wish to have their CAS files used in court ? Again the OCL is now out of the picture.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Kids unfortunately have two parents who do not get along.

                              Your children wanted to involve themselves in your matter and therefore they have to deal with the fallout/outcome. You as much as encouraged it if I recall correctly.

                              This could be a valuable learning experience for them/you.

                              I would not intervene on their behalf whatsoever.

                              Comment

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