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  • #46
    Originally posted by Istanbul View Post
    I called CAS and they said they did not receive a police report (at least, not yet) and that if I want the CAS file, I need to get a court order.
    True about getting the file, but you can ask for a "position" letter from CAS you dont need a court order for that. Ask for it as a parent, if your lawyers asks for it, its gets complicated because then CAS has to bring in their lawyers. At least thats what I was told.

    Has your lawyer not mentioned this? Thats the first thing my lawyer asked for when she found out there was a CAS file.

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    • #47
      I have had no personal experience with child custody or mobility issues.

      I can give you case law of friends (of very good friends of mine) who are both professional people (with high incomes) who divorced and had to deal with mobility upon their separation. Both were stellar parents. It came down to status quo and children had spent most of the time with the mother. The cost of exercising access (even though it was within Canada) was not trivial. However, the father was given some consideration in his child support due to steep cost of access. He was heartbroken to not obtain sole custody of his children. But it comes down to one judge in the end. Mother was allowed to move across the country with the children - simply because she had spent more time with the children. Fair? Probably not. Judges don't like to 'rock the boat' so-to-speak and previous legal decisions prevent judges from deciding otherwise as judges do not make legal decisions that will have a good chance of being overturned in Appeals Court.

      I wish you the very best and have to say that I like that you have canvassed people's input without getting defensive. This speaks to your maturity and self-control, as I know it probably hasn't been easy "getting the gears" from us on this forum.

      Finally, most people who are in high-income bracket settle out-of-court. You probably know this already. Cost of litigation in a protracted custody battle for someone in your situation would be steep.

      Comment


      • #48
        My ex was the enforcer too! When we were together, I was exasperated by the end of the day and my escape was to find an excuse to go to Shoppers Drugmart and walk up and down the isles in peace, so Dad would get them in bed with little difficulty. I found the transition to single parenting difficult.

        Like you and your ex, neither of us were perfect parents. Yes, I did ask the courts for a 50/50 custody, but the ex asked for and got on our first CC, 2 weekends a month (Saturday to Sunday) until the motion when it changed.

        Please dont make your ex out to be "Monster Mom" https://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/...ad.php?t=21661, the Judge as the forum member advised me, completely ignored it.

        I agree with Arabian, you have been very eloquent on this forum, despite some of the harsher posters including myself; that will serve you well in Family Court.
        Last edited by kate331; 05-14-2018, 10:44 PM. Reason: spelling

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        • #49
          Originally posted by arabian View Post
          I wish you the very best and have to say that I like that you have canvassed people's input without getting defensive. This speaks to your maturity and self-control, as I know it probably hasn't been easy "getting the gears" from us on this forum.
          I agree completely, a very impressive poster. People have said some harsh things to him and he hasn't struck back even once.

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          • #50
            It looks like I am getting better advice here than from my lawyer. How much do I owe you? LOL

            @kate331: my lawyer never mentioned anything about a position letter, so I have just made the request directly to CAS. However I suspect that my ex involved her lawyer with CAS which would trigger the complications that you described.

            @arabian: thanks for the link to Canlii, this will be useful and relevant reading material and it will help set my expectations accordingly.

            And thanks to all for the kind words as well. The way I see it, the advice I receive can fall into three categories:
            1. Harsh but truthful and helpful advice. Tough love from a friend, if you will. In that case, I can only welcome such opinions and I would be a fool to reject it.
            2. Incorrect advice, but incorrect only because I have not explained all the facts (yet) so you do not have all the information to give good advice. In that case, I simply have to provide additional information and see if the advice changes or not.
            3. Incorrect advice plain and simple.

            Even the best lawyer cannot provide only #1 and #2, in other words nobody has perfect wisdom so we all have #3 sometimes. That said, nobody is wrong all the time either so if someone provides a mix of #1, #2, and #3 then it is in my best interest to digest #1, explain for #2, and discard #3. The only way I don’t get help here is if someone reads the thread and decides not to respond. People who respond do so with good intentions, to help my children, or to help me, or both. So I have no reason to react negatively to any of what people say here when I know your intentions are good. There will probably be several more steps in my divorce case down the road and I will need your help and advice more than once in the future.

            Unfortunately, unlike here, I have not always kept my calm with my ex. I find it more difficult to stay cordial when someone is lying under oath for financial gain, and making decisions that hurt children and go against the interest of children just to apply pressure in a divorce case. I have learned (partially) to shut my mouth even in such instances… Then again, nobody is perfect…

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by arabian View Post
              Finally, most people who are in high-income bracket settle out-of-court. You probably know this already. Cost of litigation in a protracted custody battle for someone in your situation would be steep.
              That was exactly my opinion as well. Not only for cost considerations, but also for "peace" considerations with the children. And this is why as far as I am concerned, I already settled out of court a few years ago. However I would be reluctant to have to do this repeatedly every few years (speaking of the financial terms here, not children custody).

              So yes I had the belief that out of court was better. Been there, done that. Unfortunately in some situations I see now that it might not always be the best option. I am still open to a settlement if something realistic is offered down the road, but I am also reluctant to set a precedent here. I know how my ex is: it's never enough and she always wants more. If I was to give in now (again speaking only about the financial part, retrospectively), am I only buying the peace for a couple of years until next round of requests? Would I be repeating my mistake of the past to agree to something just because she asked? How many times will we have to do this in the next several years? At some point it has to stop... The easiest I make it for her now, the more likely she is to come back in the future with another threat of a court fight. Rince and repeat. So that is also part of my dilemma about which stance I will decide to take now.

              Comment


              • #52
                If you do ask and get a position letter from CAS, doesnt mean you have to use it. If your ex has one you will surely see it in the disclosure anyway.

                I still feel your making a huge mistake by not being present for your motion. The stakes are just too high to leave your lawyer in charge. Especially when it comes to the custody/access imo your sending a message to the Judge that your priorities are not in the right place.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by kate331 View Post
                  I still feel your making a huge mistake by not being present for your motion. The stakes are just too high to leave your lawyer in charge. Especially when it comes to the custody/access imo your sending a message to the Judge that your priorities are not in the right place.
                  Yes I know what you mean. It's somewhat in line with my previous comments where I wonder if doing 70-80% to help the children is good enough, and whether it is realistic for a judge to expect me to do 100% instead and drop everything else in my life. I am trying to juggle several issues at the same time and trying to reach the best compromise that I can for several stakeholders.

                  So I won't be in court in Canada in person, but I will be on speaker phone during the motion. My lawyer won't be 100% in charge since I will be in touch with him during the motion electronically if we need to exchange information in private. And if the judge asks me during the motion why I am not there in person then I have a reasonable explanation for why it would have been very inconvenient to undo my plans to attend in person at the date my lawyer got for the motion. For sure, the downside is that it sends the message that I am not doing everything to be there, but at the same time I have decent reasons and I am still "there" on the phone.

                  I hope that the judge will be sympathetic to my situation rather than come down hard on me for not giving all priority to be there in person.

                  I will keep everybody posted on what happens next month!

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                  • #54
                    ... do not use the word "inconvenient" when speaking to the judge.

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                    • #55
                      Or "stakeholders"

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                      • #56
                        Yes good points.

                        I think there are several land mines... if it's not this, then there is something else I might say that won't put me in the best possible light. I am not sure it's avoidable for someone who has never been to court and who does not have experience with the process, except to try to be as best prepared as possible!

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by arabian View Post
                          ... do not use the word "inconvenient" when speaking to the judge.

                          That word stuck out to me as well. I would say something along the lines of "I desperately want to be there in person, but I would lose my job if I came". I presume something like that is true, because otherwise you really should attend in person.

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                          • #58
                            Janus, that wont work, he is retired. At least he will participate on the phone.

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                            • #59
                              I have successfully represented myself, via telephone, in court on 3 occasions. I found the experience to be a tad intimidating. I learned very quickly to keep sentences very short, stay on point and never, ever interrupt the judge. Of course I made sure that my written submission was thorough and well-organized. I didn't play games and made sure that everyone was served my response documents in timely manner.

                              If someone attends by telephone and intends to ramble on then they will likely be unsuccessful. If you are not going to be attending in person you should make sure that your written submission is stellar. Judges hear cases every day and have years of experience. In order to change a current order the judge will be looking for material change of circumstance. If there is no material change of circumstance then there will be no change. You will not have an opportunity to ramble on and on. This is not a Hollywood version of court. You may have time scheduled for a long motion but the judge may come to a decision in a much shorter period of time.

                              Prior to each telephone testimony I simply wrote out 6 points. This kept me focused.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                @arabian, thanks for the tips. For sure on the phone is not as easy as in person. What plays in my favor is that I will have a lawyer so hopefully my involvement will be limited. You were self-represented which was more of a difficult task especially on the phone.

                                If I am asked why I am not there in person, I will simply explain the truth. In my future wife's culture, they are quite superstitious and we cannot just pick the date of our wedding. We need to consult with buddhist monks who will check what dates are the most favorable for future happiness of the couple based on the birth dates of both. Believe it or not, we were only given 2 dates in the whole year to choose from! In addition, we need to visit temples a fixed number of days before the wedding and this is what falls when the motion is. I told my lawyer several times when I was available and when I was not available... but this is the date he got me in court, for whatever reason.

                                Of course I could say forget about the trip to visit temples, I need to go to Canada. But my future wife already makes a lot of compromises to be in the current situation so if her and her family care about me doing things the right way (according to their beliefs) because it will be good for us, then do I really want to wreak havoc by saying no because I am not superstitious myself? Especially if an alternative exists, such as being on the phone for the motion. So I decided to please my future wife and her family, at the expense of being on the phone for the motion rather than in person. Delaying the motion is not really an option because part of the motion is to get time with children during the summer so the motion needs to be in June at the latest.

                                Did I make this call 100% for the children? Clearly not. So perhaps a judge won't like it. But I thought I made the best decision I could by considering all people involved. I won't lie about why I am not there to pretend that I wanted to be there but something unforeseen happened, just to make an excuse. So either I don't explain anything or I tell the truth.

                                If it is best to not ramble on the phone then I will explain the situation to my lawyer and he should explain it himself as briefly as possible, rather than me attempting to explain what is actually not that easy to explain if the judge only wants to hear it for 10 seconds.

                                Comment

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