The Last Hurdle

[Tayken]

Very interesting analysis, Tayken, but I’d say that rather than three money/conflict items, there are four (or more). The fourth one I am thinking of is related to control, but for a punitive purpose rather than greed. This is the person that says “I will get unequal division, fight to either get SS or not have to pay it, harass about CS and s7 expenses to punish you for breaking up with me.” This desire for financial retribution may be motivated by misplaced blame and anger, by truth, or by false perception. It can even be done by the person initiating the separation, to punish the other person for not having been the ‘perfect’ spouse. But it isn't for greed, as they are willing to spend their whole savings in court and end up with nothing, happy as long as their ex also has nothing.

That would possibly fall under category #2 possibly. But, there are people that do this but, they generally are operating out of abandonment anxieties. They feel abandoned... "fear of abandonment". When mixed with the wrong personality configuration the fear of abandonment (emotional abandonment) which is an anxious state can lead to the nonsense you have identified. (And is common before the courts.)

I think unequal division of assets reflects as much as, if not more, on the flaws of our no-fault divorce system, that one spouse is financially punished for the crazy spending or relative unemployability of the other, by strict equalization, when they had nothing to do with either, long after the marriage is over.

A similar argument can be made about those who have to pay support (child / SS) because of similar issues in the relationship. One parent is often paid for the lack of motivation, poor career choices, poor business decisions, and often failure to seek education and a viable career.

With people getting married later in life (after one would complete secondary education and training) the argument of the children being the reason one parent isn't gainfully employed is seen less in case law.

In fact, if you check out the posting I provided to PH in this thread I provided case law where Justice Mossip again points out that everyone is expected to be self sufficient and that the court expects them to.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Pursuinghappiness]

Thank you for the excellent advice.

Tayken, you are probably right on him having more than just control issues and there's no doubt that part of it is also punitive. He wants to "punish" me for leaving the marriage. He basically has told my family members that since I wanted to leave, that I shouldn't be paid to leave. He thinks he owns all the marital assets that we had...it was a common theme that despite the fact that I worked full-time that everything was his during marriage.

As for #3 reason, it seems as though you're also right on this...however, I'll know more tomorrow. It would be very, very foolish of him to push this to trial given the issues that he has but he may do it anyway.

I am not going to continue to negotiate with someone who can't operate in good faith, however, its a waste of my time.

My suggestion would be to pull together from all the sources he's provided, and do up his financial statement FOR him. If it's not a documented item, don't include it. If something has been sworn to, keep that amount, and if it was sworn twice and the amounts are different, use the one that is most advantageous to you.

Provide this to the judge as a helpful summary of his repeated partial disclosures, necessary due to his history of deceit, and ask that these figures be used for equalization and support purposes rather than wasting further time, both the court's and yours, by ordering disclosure yet again.

This is basically what my lawyer is doing now. And she's going to provide me with the summary at tomorrow's SC so that I can double check things this weekend.

My laywer is also gathering the questioning we did because he swore specific items on his financial statement at that time...as well as swearing under oath that the statement was accurate. I find it amusing that he's planning to go under oath at trial again, swearing different amounts. Obviously one of them is a lie...and if I were a judge, which one do you think he's lying about?

I swear my ex is an idiot...its like he just figured out the equalization formula after 3 years of litigation and thinks he can pull a fast one in court....sigh....stupidity.

[frustratedwithex]

Originally Posted by frustratedwithex
I think unequal division of assets reflects as much as, if not more, on the flaws of our no-fault divorce system, that one spouse is financially punished for the crazy spending or relative unemployability of the other, by strict equalization, when they had nothing to do with either, long after the marriage is over.

I don't know where you got this quote from, but I did not say this.

[mememe]

In reading this post----it could have been my story for the last 4 years--

Financials: incomplete; gave him information via lawyer and myself with outstanding items (he told me I should send him the information when I have spent lots of lawyer money and lots of personal time collecting stuff and doing my financial) Even though we gave him ideas of what to improve---second financial exactly same as first--no changes. Next version of financials he removed his current assets. We have asked for one tax assessment item 4 x through lawyer---and in case conference his lawyer called mine a liar--that we had never asked for it.

I truly have worked very hard to move everything forward and tried to do it with the phliosopy that I will be respectful, pro-actively provide information, always pro-actively email him let's talk first and then show the lawyer (he has never followed through on this and as a result quite a bit of my lawyers fees comes down to clearing upcommunication issues and making new appointments/court dates as a result of their cancelling everything organized (case conference, four way, questioning...nothing has ever occurred on the dates agreed). He is self centered and clueless, and feels that I should just agree to his settlement offer that has financial errors, no proof of documented values) and didn't address any issues listed from our side. (my rant is done)

I feel, as do others, that the court system allows this to occur. Something needs to be in place --other than more court dates, more lawyer letters, that demands lawyers and divorcing partners, respect people's time and are forced to get this over with. I am in the position that court will be cheaper than what has happened in the last four years. Even if I don't get anything---at least someone will just say yes to this no to that and I can get him out of my life and I can use my lawyer money for retirement where it was initially supposed to go.

Really--we are being held hostage by former partners and I can't see any solution to this. We are putting pressure on him and his lawyer to provide information--but they do not give us financial information where we can figure things out (My lawyer has sent a letter with a date when this is due---and next step is court).

If anyone has any good ideas how to deal with this---there will be shorter happier divorces.

[Rioe]

I don't know where you got this quote from, but I did not say this.

That was me again, in the same post as his earlier quote.

[Tayken]

That was me again, in the same post as his earlier quote.

Rioe is correct. I didn't clear the cache from my copy and paste. The quote is attributed to Rioe but, I had the other poster's information still in my cut and paste cache and pasted it in.

I should get a lesson on how to use the {quote} feature... Anyone know a user who uses it quite often?

Good Luck!
Tayken

[FightingForFamily]

Really--we are being held hostage by former partners and I can't see any solution to this.

If anyone has any good ideas how to deal with this---there will be shorter happier divorces.

I feel like this all the time.

I cannot figure out any way to explain to my former spouse that we are not together any more and she has to take full responsibility for herself and everything in her life. I grew up in a single mom family, I knew what she was signing herself up for and I was amazed that she wanted to do it alone.

However times have changed since I grew up... her sense of entitlement is endless, "the system" is there for her every step of the way and she won't accept any responsibility for her own finances. She constantly confuses spousal support with child support, saying that I have to keep paying her spousal support "for his best interests".

I have patiently explained many times that there will always be money for our child but that she is on her own. She cannot accept that, and so yes I feel like a hostage.

[Qrious]

I should get a lesson on how to use the {quote} feature... Anyone know a user who uses it quite often?

Good Luck!
Tayken

How about Arabian? She'd probably love to help you out, Tayken. Lol!

[arabian]

I saw that!

How about Arabian? She'd probably love to help you out, Tayken. Lol!

I'm sure Mr. CutNPaste needs no help using the quote function.

Qrioius - I'm watching you

[Qrious]

Qrioius - I'm watching you

(Giggle, giggle). Just havin' some fun.

[Tayken]

I'm sure Mr. CutNPaste needs no help using the quote function.

"Horses for courses"... I guess.

Good Luck!
Tayken

[Qrious]

"Horses for courses"... I guess.

Good Luck!
Tayken

Lol! Nice play on words, there, Tayken.