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  • OCL report Disputed.

    So this is not shocking...

    3 page affidavit filed disputing OCL report..

    What steps does ocl take now? Does anyone know?

    Most of the dispute in my opinion is it going to fly...

    They say the investigation was not even or fair.

    Ocl spoke to my collaterals but not dad’s.

    My collaterals all new the children
    Dad didn’t provide proper collaterals. His dr.. never met the kids.. the kids dentist??... and there hockey coach.. (which he never asked or notified) an ENT dr for one of our sons. Again never met my ex and only one of our children once....
    it’s like my ex just sent the list of kids contacts I have provided him to the OCL for collaterals.
    He then complains that what some of the collaterals say is here-say. And can’t be backed up by fact? Is it the clinicians job to prove what a collateral says?? I didn’t think so.

    Also complained his mother wasn’t interviewed... but he never asked for her to be..

    Said his court documents were not reviewed...
    his lawyer never provided them to the clinician.
    My lawyer did send some of his pleadings to help out the clinician.
    Clinician noted 2 extra phone calls with mom vs dad. Except clinician also reported in her report that dad was always extremely hard to get a hold of and didn’t return phone calls. Lawyer had to be contacted for him to be told he needs to respond to OCL’s requests. That was even brought up in the disclosure meeting how difficult my ex made the whole process

    Also they didn’t list exactly what they disagree with. They just said they point blank disagree with ALL recommendations and it says see pages... x y z.

    They are asking for “reports” from the collaterals.. like the professionals that clinician spoke to.

    I was under the impression she spoke to them all on the phone. So other than her notes.. not sure what could be provided.

    Anyone else have experience with this??


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  • #2
    Yeah- not shocking at all.

    I just went through this. My ex disputed specific recommendations though.

    He said the same thing about the investigation being done unevenly. He claimed the clinician didn't stay for more than 30 min for his in-home visit and never spoke with his sister and mum- he specifically said that that was because he told them to back off so she could see him interact with D2, and she would've known that if she made any attempt to speak with them. When she was at my house- she spoke with my mum for a long time because my parents were both there while I was prepping dinner for D2 as they usually help distract her while I'm cooking.

    She did review everything he submitted though- including a report from his own family doctor- who's never met D2. I'm not even sure what the purpose of that was- other than to confirm he suffers from similar atopic dermatitis (severe eczema) as D2.

    So maybe your clinician should have spoken or contacted his collaterals? And reviewed his pleadings? But I hope his lawyer knows how kangaroo court it looks to say that she never reviewed his pleadings when they never provided it in the first place.

    My opinion is that the OCL does do some questionable things. But they are there not to be judges - they can rely on hearsay if they think it's valid. THey are there to take into account everything everyone has said and try to come up with a solution for the kid(s).


    Oh- so the OCL is supposed to reply to the party filing the dispute and let them know if they are changing anything (and copy the other party) My lawyer tells me 95% of the time they never change the recommendations.

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    • #3
      I suspect the OCL report is in your favour.

      I had similar issues with OCL.

      Imbalance time of interviews between parties.
      Interview with members from moms side of family but not from my side of the family.
      Missed collaterals.
      Failure to review and understand court documents - stating incorrect information about court orders in the report.
      Bias.

      While those issues match with your post, these were more of the minor stuff I disputed. The more major stuff was integration CAS and police records into her report although she only received them after the disclosure meeting. Failing to understand that by not recommending 50.50 that the child's relationship with the father would be diminished, etc.

      They don't have to get in the bushes and explain everything in their dispute. IF the matter goes to trial, then they will reveal their best arguments.

      OCL will take about 4 to 6 weeks or more and reply in the lines of : the clinician is experienced and in good standing and stands by their recommendations. We understand this is a hard time for the parents. Please remember these are just recommendations and can be disputed in court. blah blah blah.

      I assume there will be a settlement conference where a judge will review OCL report, dispute, and parties position. In my case, the judge lost it on my ex for disparaging the child and agreed with my position that the OCL recommendations made no sense and time should be 50.50 in order to protect my relationship with the child.
      Last edited by tunnelight; 06-17-2019, 10:51 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
        While those issues match with your post, these were more of the minor stuff I disputed. The more major stuff was integration CAS and police records into her report although she only received them after the disclosure meeting. Failing to understand that by not recommending 50.50 that the child's relationship with the father would be diminished, etc.
        would you have had the same position if the clinician had received them before the disclosure?

        my ex made the same argument that the CAS report and screening shouldn't have been included in the report whereby he didn't get a chance to tell his side of the story.

        and is the issue with the 50/50 recommendation that there was potential parental alienation happening?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
          I suspect the OCL report is in your favour.

          I had similar issues with OCL.

          Imbalance time of interviews between parties.
          Interview with members from moms side of family but not from my side of the family.
          Missed collaterals.
          Failure to review and understand court documents - stating incorrect information about court orders in the report.
          Bias.

          While those issues match with your post, these were more of the minor stuff I disputed. The more major stuff was integration CAS and police records into her report although she only received them after the disclosure meeting. Failing to understand that by not recommending 50.50 that the child's relationship with the father would be diminished, etc.

          They don't have to get in the bushes and explain everything in their dispute. IF the matter goes to trial, then they will reveal their best arguments.

          OCL will take about 4 to 6 weeks or more and reply in the lines of : the clinician is experienced and in good standing and stands by their recommendations. We understand this is a hard time for the parents. Please remember these are just recommendations and can be disputed in court. blah blah blah.

          I assume there will be a settlement conference where a judge will review OCL report, dispute, and parties position. In my case, the judge lost it on my ex for disparaging the child and agreed with my position that the OCL recommendations made no sense and time should be 50.50 in order to protect my relationship with the child.


          Yes sounds very similar.. except we already had the SC with the judge who reviewed the OCL report and basically told my ex he has an uphill battle, against a 6 year status quo and with what the OCL revealed from professionals. He told the ex to stop with the mischief and get this settled. He also told him to stop messing with his income or it would be imputed. We got 4 orders for disclosure from the ex. And we go back to see same judge in September.

          Oh yes and the dispute that my ex wasn’t given a chance to answer to certain things.

          I would say the difference between you and my ex is you are most likely a good dad and Try at every chance to be involved.
          My ex has been given all the facts and information. All appointments. Any chance to participate in things and he never shows up for his kids. Yet claims he wants them half the time. After he agreed to the access schedule and custody 6 years ago. He also dropped the sole/ 50-50 claim in his last brief. He has now agreed to EOW but has still insisted on joint custody. The judge explained to him all major decisions are already in place and that joint is an uphill battle he will die on.

          Yet here we are still fighting....


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          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
            would you have had the same position if the clinician had received them before the disclosure?



            my ex made the same argument that the CAS report and screening shouldn't have been included in the report whereby he didn't get a chance to tell his side of the story.



            and is the issue with the 50/50 recommendation that there was potential parental alienation happening?


            Have you heard back from OCL yet about the dispute?


            Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
              Yeah- not shocking at all.



              I just went through this. My ex disputed specific recommendations though.



              He said the same thing about the investigation being done unevenly. He claimed the clinician didn't stay for more than 30 min for his in-home visit and never spoke with his sister and mum- he specifically said that that was because he told them to back off so she could see him interact with D2, and she would've known that if she made any attempt to speak with them. When she was at my house- she spoke with my mum for a long time because my parents were both there while I was prepping dinner for D2 as they usually help distract her while I'm cooking.



              She did review everything he submitted though- including a report from his own family doctor- who's never met D2. I'm not even sure what the purpose of that was- other than to confirm he suffers from similar atopic dermatitis (severe eczema) as D2.



              So maybe your clinician should have spoken or contacted his collaterals? And reviewed his pleadings? But I hope his lawyer knows how kangaroo court it looks to say that she never reviewed his pleadings when they never provided it in the first place.



              My opinion is that the OCL does do some questionable things. But they are there not to be judges - they can rely on hearsay if they think it's valid. THey are there to take into account everything everyone has said and try to come up with a solution for the kid(s).





              Oh- so the OCL is supposed to reply to the party filing the dispute and let them know if they are changing anything (and copy the other party) My lawyer tells me 95% of the time they never change the recommendations.


              And really her recommendations still gave dad more time than what he has.... yet he is disagreeing.

              Of course with anything that isn’t so nice about him. Like not paying attention to his kids while being observed. Or using such moments as teachable lessons. Or not correcting a step kid when he says something rude to his own child. The gf had to jump in and do it.

              They are almost calling his own kids liars. Saying what the kids said about him should have been disclosed and that he should have had a chance to explain?

              Well there are things said about me that I didn’t get a chance to explain either but whatever.

              He says right to the clinician that he admits gf has been writing all the correspondence for him to me. But then when my partner commented on it. They asked where my partner for his information from. Lol

              My partner was very nice and social with my ex. He knows his speaking ability which isn’t much. So when I would get upset and share an email with him he knew damn well my ex couldn’t not write like that.

              Sadly the clinician pointed out she isn’t the first professional to recommend therapy and parenting classes to my ex. And she did rely on professionals who met my ex who said this about him. So to me this is factual.

              I don’t know but I get. I guess they have to dispute the report if we will go to trial.


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              • #8
                what is the material change in circumstances the OCL is relying on to change the status quo?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
                  I don’t know but I get. I guess they have to dispute the report if we will go to trial.


                  Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                  Yeah- it's a strategic thing- you have to dispute the report now if you are going to challenge it at trial. The lawyers know nothing is going to change.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                    what is the material change in circumstances the OCL is relying on to change the status quo?


                    That’s just it. Ex wants status quo changed. Not me. Ocl recommends custody stay with mom. My ex or his lawyers have not brought up anything that proves there has been a material change. Which is exactly what the judge asked his lawyer? He said please tell him where the material change is??? No one could answer him.

                    His argument is that S7 have substantially increased over time since date or superstation. Judge said “duh kids get older and cost more money”

                    Kids were 2 and 5 when we split. They are 7.5 and 11 now.

                    One needed tutoring. One needed therapy. For a period of time. Which had now ended. So yes. Periodically they cost more.


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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                      would you have had the same position if the clinician had received them before the disclosure?

                      my ex made the same argument that the CAS report and screening shouldn't have been included in the report whereby he didn't get a chance to tell his side of the story.

                      and is the issue with the 50/50 recommendation that there was potential parental alienation happening?

                      For me, It wasn't a question of whether or not the CAS records should be excluded, but rather the question of how much of the records could the assessor have integrated into her report. For example, the mother alleged drug use and controlling behavior but the assessor didn't give me a chance to respond. The CAS records shows a drug test I did when mom thought I did drugs and also the mother stating to CAS that she didn't actually think I was being controlling and just said it out of anger.

                      alienation was part of it and my strongest argument. but there were many more things, including the child not thriving under the primary care of the mother - too many concerns raised by the teachers. basically all boiled down to the behaviours of the mother and her extended family members, including the unilaterally chosen home daycare provider.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Mom 2 Two View Post
                        That’s just it. Ex wants status quo changed. Not me. Ocl recommends custody stay with mom. My ex or his lawyers have not brought up anything that proves there has been a material change. Which is exactly what the judge asked his lawyer? He said please tell him where the material change is??? No one could answer him.

                        His argument is that S7 have substantially increased over time since date or superstation. Judge said “duh kids get older and cost more money”

                        Kids were 2 and 5 when we split. They are 7.5 and 11 now.

                        One needed tutoring. One needed therapy. For a period of time. Which had now ended. So yes. Periodically they cost more.


                        Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                        what's the reason the OCL is recommending the access be increased?

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                        • #13
                          They really didn’t give a reason other than saying the children do not wish to have more time with their dad. The children feel like they are not important by dads actions and how he treats them. They added an after school visit weekly for 2.5 hours. And one more week in the summer.

                          Clinician says that dad needs to learn how to parent his children and better emotionally support them. So I guess if he is given more time he can slowly gain there trust again.

                          Dad out In his brief he doesn’t agree to be ordered to therapy..

                          So to me if he doesn’t want to learn how to relate better to his kids he shouldn t get more time. He doesnt spend the time e he has with them. Their words. They are left to play with gf kids who can sometimes bully them.

                          It’s very sad what the kids told the clinician about how dad and gf treat them. They feel blamed for everything that gfs kids do. They feel like her kids are more important. Dad sends kids to play with gf kids and ignores them all weekend.

                          The kids said they wished for one on one time with dad. And not always having gf kids to compete with. They live there. 3 of them.
                          Clinician recommended gf kids not be there when dad has his access with our kids.

                          I had already offered more then then the clinician even recommended by the way.


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                          • #14
                            what's dads position on him not emotionally supporting the child?

                            why is he seeking 50.50 ?

                            why did the courts request OCL?

                            the OCL needs to have a reason why access is to be increased

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tunnelight View Post
                              what's dads position on him not emotionally supporting the child?



                              why is he seeking 50.50 ?



                              why did the courts request OCL?



                              the OCL needs to have a reason why access is to be increased

                              Dad claims that I severely restricted his parenting time. And refused to consult or discuss things with him(again I have so much evidence to disprove this).

                              A. I discontinued his daily morning access. He used to put the kids on the bus for school each morning.

                              He started work half hour after me. So since we split he came and put kids on bus from my home. I left for work once he showed up..
                              he gets a gf... and starts to show up late each and every morning. Leaving the kids upset and stressed out as they don’t know where daddy is.... and leaving me constantly late for work. I almost lost my job.. mid school year. Couldn’t find any before care.

                              After being 30 times late in less than 4 months I had to make a choice. I spoke to hr and altered my work hours. So I could put the kids on the bus and I worked later or made up the time. So yes I told him to beat it and not come in the mornings anymore.


                              B.

                              Giving more time...

                              Her reasoning was dad needs to repair the kids trust in him. He needs to take parenting classes to learn how to support them.

                              Dad denies that he doesn’t emotionally support them. Without any proof except blaming me. Yet I have email after email after text letting him know of school meetings.. dr appointments, begging him to participate in family therapy. He himself reached out to youngest sons therapist. She reached out to me. Had me sign consent for her to meet/ talk wth him. Invited him twice to therapy and he ignored any contact from her after that.

                              Then He claimed he wasn’t aware said son started free therapy after getting off wait list. After OCL disclosure he called free therapist and said he was never aware of this. Even though I had emailed him twice 6 months prior with therapists contact info again saying please call so you can be involved.

                              My older sons therapist met with dad and myself once to discuss the issues our son brought to her attention. Dad denied and refused to understand that he needed to repair his relationship with his boys because of what our son was upset about.

                              Dad doesn’t spend one on one time with us.. dad doesn’t listen to us when we are upset. Dad refuses to let me call my mom when I am missing her. Dad doesn’t allow me to go to or speak to mom at sports events on his weekends. Dad yells at us and puts us in our room for hours when gf’s kids get us in trouble and won’t listen to our side. Also makes us go to the gf for our punishment and to be told we are in the wrong even when we are not.

                              Dad doesn’t include us in things and goes and does stuff with gf and her kids and it’s rubbed in our face right before we go back to moms.
                              Dad doesn’t call us between access time.

                              Should I go on??
                              This is the stuff both of our sons said to their therapists.

                              And also to the OCL clinician. They said they do not want more time with dad because he doesn’t do anything with them and they are left to be with gf kids. As well as many other reasons.

                              C. The courts did not request OCL my ex’s lawyer asked for it at first case conference. His lawyer stood up and said “my client fears he is never going to see his kids again”.

                              My dumb lawyer said nothing... ex has always had his access without fail.

                              My lawyer says. Just agree to ocl. It will be good and the truth will come out. So not knowing any better I agree. And it for ordered on consent.

                              I started motion to change to enforce CS and Section 7’s that were already agreed to in our 5 year old SA.. that was filed with the courts. which ex abruptly stopped paying for the day he moved in with his gf. With no warning or explanation other than sorry I have to now support 4 more people and I can’t afford to pay these things anymore.

                              His answer to my motion was to claim Sole Custody and primary residence to him and parenting time to me as a judge sees fit.
                              Sorry not in order of your questions.

                              But this is what has gone on.

                              He got slammed by judge at SC... told to stop the mischief.
                              Judge said “ she files for Sect7 enforcement and you counter claim sole custody?” He said stop this tit for tat. 6 year status quo and this ocl report he will never even obtain joint custody.


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