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  • Getting a copy of an SC Brief

    Greetings.... I've read the stickies (stickys?), tried searching and am still learning terminology, so I apologize if this has been addressed...

    I had a useless SC a few months ago and her (600 page!!!!) SC Brief contained a some info I'd like to see again.

    Any idea what is the easiest way to get a copy of (or at least a look at) her SC Brief and all it's appendices, etc?? It's really just a couple of pages I want, but I don't know how to reference them. Through my lawyer will cost me $4m and take months.

    I'm still learning the concept of continuing records, what is kept on the court file, etc.

    Appreciate any help... pointer to existing thread would be great...

  • #2
    Originally posted by SomeGuy View Post
    Greetings.... I've read the stickies (stickys?), tried searching and am still learning terminology, so I apologize if this has been addressed...

    I had a useless SC a few months ago and her (600 page!!!!) SC Brief contained a some info I'd like to see again.
    Waw! that definitely make SC Judge happy.

    Any idea what is the easiest way to get a copy of (or at least a look at) her SC Brief and all it's appendices, etc?? It's really just a couple of pages I want, but I don't know how to reference them. Through my lawyer will cost me $4m and take months.
    First of all you should be served with one. Another option go to court and a ask to see your file. Problem is that it may be not there as SC brief get destroyed or returned to the parties after conference. And last one to get copy of SC brief from your lawyer should not cost you a penny. Lawyer should give you a copy to review anyway.

    Comment


    • #3
      I would start with checking the court file. Go down, take your court file # and ask the clerk if you can search thru.

      Might be in there, may not be.

      They can usually copy it for you, for a small fee/page.

      Comment


      • #4
        If your lawyer has a copy, tell them you will pick it up from reception, make your own copy, and return the original to them.

        As long as your bill is paid, the majority of the contents of your file are your property. There is nothing wrong with taking it for a walk to provide yourself with a copy without incurring the fees for photocopying a small library.

        You are otherwise unlikely to find a copy. The SC brief does not stick around the court record, as the contents are without prejudice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by SomeGuy View Post
          I had a useless SC a few months ago and her (600 page!!!!) SC Brief contained a some info I'd like to see again.
          This is quite possibly the largest brief I have ever heard of being filed for a settlement conference ("SC"). It must have taken like 3 binders to house all of that stuff. They would need a cart to move that around the court house.

          In what world does 600 pages equate to being "brief"?

          brief /brēf/

          Adjective
          Of short duration.

          Noun
          A concise statement or summary.

          Verb
          Instruct or inform (someone) thoroughly, esp. in preparation for a task: "she briefed him on last week's decisions".

          Synonyms
          adjective. short - concise - succinct - curt - terse - summary
          noun. summary - abstract - resume
          verb. summarize - inform - instruct
          Further to WorkingDad's comment... Did the justice presiding over the SC have anything interesting to say about the VOLUME of materials that were filed for a SC?

          The bible on average in print is 1,900 pages. Does the other party realize that they served a document, for something that usually only lasts about 30 minutes, a document "brief" that is 31.5% the size of the BIBLE?

          The entire set of Harry Potter books (UK release) is 3407 pages making the brief 17.6% of the entire set of harry potter books.

          Was Howard Stephen Berg presiding over the SC or something? (World's fastest speed reader who can read 200 pages in 90 seconds.)

          Honestly, was the other party who submitted this "brief" represented by counsel?

          Good Luck!
          Tayken

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Tayken View Post
            In what world does 600 pages equate to being "brief"?
            In the world of "billable hours" and a super HC stbx.

            Originally posted by Tayken View Post
            Did the justice presiding over the SC have anything interesting to say about the VOLUME of materials that were filed for a SC?
            As a matter of fact... yes. She made a specific point of thanking both counsel for being so thorough, well organized and prepared

            Thanks everyone for your suggestions... I'll check out the court file as I'm curious to see what is there... then hit my lawyer up for my file and dig through it.

            Comment


            • #7
              In what world does 600 pages equate to being "brief"?
              She made a specific point of thanking both counsel for being so thorough, well organized and prepared
              With no knowledge of the case, and based only on the size of brief and judges commentary, I would speculate:
              - Tabs, headings, table of contents, quality binding. You might think they don't matter; they do. You don't go to a job interview in jeans while you are trying to persuade someone of your quality as an employee. Don't send your documents half dressed or irritating to look through if you want them to be considered well thought out.

              - Necessary records, reports or case law included, which can often add dozens of pages for a single exhibit when you only need a paragraph. If a point of law has been contentious, a party will occasionally lay out their position with support then ask a judge their view so the other party hears it from the bench. Costly to put together, cheaper then a long motion or trial. Judges tend to appreciate someone handing them jurisprudence rather than risking the judge not being familiar with that area of law.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                With no knowledge of the case, and based only on the size of brief and judges commentary, I would speculate:
                You are completely correct on your speculation... and I fully get your point.

                What kills me is 2 things... one.. she is nit-picking on a zillion things that could just be solved in a heartbeat if she had one molecule of reason in her brain... instead every last financial transaction becomes a source of contention.

                second... after 3 hours in the SC the judge scrawled, "come back if you want" on a piece of paper, then the lawyers started arguing about what the judge said. NOTHING was solved in the least.

                What a complete and utter waste of time, preparation and money... and it was not cheap. Im crying as I type this...

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Tayken View Post

                  Was Howard Stephen Berg presiding over the SC or something? (World's fastest speed reader who can read 200 pages in 90 seconds.)
                  The SC was originally scheduled a month earlier, then 45 minutes before it was to begin the judge cancelled when she saw the size of the brief(s).

                  Judge rescheduled a month later and I was impressed that she actually seemed to have read most of it.... not that it mattered.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                    If your lawyer has a copy, tell them you will pick it up from reception, make your own copy, and return the original to them.

                    As long as your bill is paid, the majority of the contents of your file are your property. There is nothing wrong with taking it for a walk to provide yourself with a copy without incurring the fees for photocopying a small library.
                    I went to my lawyers office, viewed the contents of my file and found what I was looking for. They told me in no uncertain terms that the material did not belong to me, and I was in no way able to take it and photocopy it myself. Only way to get a copy would be to pay them.

                    Is this true?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                      With no knowledge of the case, and based only on the size of brief and judges commentary, I would speculate:
                      - Tabs, headings, table of contents, quality binding. You might think they don't matter; they do. You don't go to a job interview in jeans while you are trying to persuade someone of your quality as an employee. Don't send your documents half dressed or irritating to look through if you want them to be considered well thought out.
                      Good advice but, depends on the relevance of the materials. 90% of the materials is never relevant. Also, packing a pile of manure into a nice box doesn't hid the fact that it is still... manure...

                      But, you make a good point... So many people's court files and documents are all over the map, unbound and a slight gust of wind can change their argument like a "choose your own adventure" novel.

                      Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                      - Necessary records, reports or case law included, which can often add dozens of pages for a single exhibit when you only need a paragraph.
                      Case law attached to a brief for a conference is often not necessary. It is a mediated solution and justices just move everything to a motion if that much paperwork is required to settle a matter in my personal opinion.

                      Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                      If a point of law has been contentious, a party will occasionally lay out their position with support then ask a judge their view so the other party hears it from the bench.
                      Conferences have a short time allotted to them. Generally the only time I see a justice even dealing with any materials of this size (600 pages) is in purge court when they are trying to not have another nonsense matter go to trial.

                      Not sure if I would recommend submitting a BoA for a "conference" unless it was a TMC...

                      Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                      Costly to put together, cheaper then a long motion or trial. Judges tend to appreciate someone handing them jurisprudence rather than risking the judge not being familiar with that area of law.
                      But, at a "conference" a justice can't make a substantive order. Also, they usually only spend between 15-20 minutes and if they find the parties are too far apart it moves to a motion.

                      If you shotgun the brief like this, guess what the other party has already in hand... your who argument and what they have already started to do... Reply to the nonsense you are going to stuff into the motion materials.

                      I wouldn't recommend anyone pulling out a 600 page "brief" in SCJ-Toronto or SCJ-Brampton... You will kindly be notified of the filing requirement for those court houses... Which is I think 15 pages of materials generally.

                      My opinion is that a 600 page brief is a fast tract to trial... At minimum a long motion hearing or a viva voce trial on the issues.

                      Good Luck!
                      Tayken

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        They told me in no uncertain terms that the material did not belong to me, and I was in no way able to take it and photocopy it myself. Only way to get a copy would be to pay them.
                        Is this your current lawyer, or former lawyer?

                        If you paid for the photocopying, it is yours. If it was sent to your lawyer, they can argue otherwise, however the turn about to that is to fire the lawyer and demand the entirety of your file, sans solicitor's notes and communications.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by OrleansLawyer View Post
                          Is this your current lawyer, or former lawyer?

                          If you paid for the photocopying, it is yours. If it was sent to your lawyer, they can argue otherwise, however the turn about to that is to fire the lawyer and demand the entirety of your file, sans solicitor's notes and communications.
                          Also, the issue might be that your account is not up to date and you owe the lawyer some money. If you owe the lawyer money that may be why you can't get access to the materials possibly.

                          Even removing the lawyer from the file won't release the documents often when you have an unpaid balance.

                          Lawyers are working for money (to be paid) and when they don't get paid they can withhold your file (within reason). For example, if you don't pay your car payments do you expect the dealership to not repo your car? Same principal applies to unpaid legal fees often...

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                            Also, the issue might be that your account is not up to date and you owe the lawyer some money.
                            My account is (and always has been) fully up to date. And I've put one of his kids through college.

                            Comment

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