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  • Sole Custody - Controlling ex,mental health

    Just some background: I have a pre-motion hearing in two weeks, I am seeking sole custody of my 5 year old.

    My ex tried to commit suicide approx 7 months ago, it was not until after that I found out that he had tried several years ago as well. He hid his previous mental health issues. He also has a chronic illness, history of depression.

    Since my son has been born, my ex was involved but not involved. Even when together for example, never put my son to bed, bathed, got him dressed, etc. I have not allowed overnight visits since we separated. He has also either been unemployed or worked out of province for part of every year since my son was born. I work full time, same employer for 20 years, no mental health issues, etc.

    Just wondering how others fared in getting sole custody? I have no issue with visitation but have concerns on overnight visits, behavioral issues following visits. I also have concerns about how controlling my ex is, his explosive temper, mental health. I know every time I want to travel with my son for example, he will try to stop it out of spite. How did others deal with this? I requested a psychological assessment but he only went to see a psychologist once, admits mental health issues but says hes better.

    Also, I make approx $50K per year, he makes about $25-$30K per year, hides income. What is a fair split for s7 expenses? Has anyone been successful in proving the other parent is hiding income to pay less?

  • #2
    Originally posted by elaineb View Post

    My ex tried to commit suicide approx 7 months ago, it was not until after that I found out that he had tried several years ago as well. He hid his previous mental health issues. He also has a chronic illness, history of depression.
    Do you have evidence of him trying to commit suicide? What evidence do you have.

    Does he still have these alleged mental health issues? Is he seeking treatment? What evidence do you have of these mental health issues? mild Depression won't be enough

    Originally posted by elaineb View Post
    Since my son has been born, my ex was involved but not involved. Even when together for example, never put my son to bed, bathed, got him dressed, etc. I have not allowed overnight visits since we separated. He has also either been unemployed or worked out of province for part of every year since my son was born. I work full time, same employer for 20 years, no mental health issues, etc.

    Was he involved or not involved. You realize he will deny these claims and say that he did all of that. In my case, my ex is making same claims against me but I have doctor notes showing that I was involved in my child's care and espcially her appointments.

    The fact that you have withhold access is not going to help your case. That can be identified as parental alienation. You are to do everything in your power to accommodate your child to see the other parent, not the other way around

    Originally posted by elaineb View Post


    Just wondering how others fared in getting sole custody? I have no issue with visitation but have concerns on overnight visits, behavorial issues following visits. I also have concerns about how controlling my ex is, his explosive temper. I know every time I want to travel with my son for example, he will try to stop it out of spite. How did others deal with this?
    You're witholding access of your child to the other parent then claiming that your child has behavioural issues? Your child is having to adjust to some big changes. Behavioural issues after visits is no reason to withold access.

    explosive temper needs to be proven, what evidence do you have? If he shows up to court and turns out to be the nicest and most pleasant person to see and speak with then the judge is not going to be pleased with how you've described him

    The only way you'll get sole custody is you guys are not getting along or communicating (you can't be creating conflict on purpose, such as withholding access)

    If he is seeking custody he will likely get it unless you have something against him such as criminal record, serious mental illness, etc.


    Originally posted by elaineb View Post
    Also, I make approx $50K per year, he makes about $25-$30K per year, hides income. What is a fair split for s7 expenses? Has anyone been successful in proving the other parent is hiding income to pay less?
    [/QUOTE]

    You make more than he does. You have to pay the majority of S7 expenses. If he get's the child for 40% of the time then you have to pay him child support or the judge might order no child support.

    I have not been able to prove the other parent hiding income and not going to try. But it is odd that someone on welfare would have thousands and thousands of dollars for an experienced lawyer - perhaps you could ask for his bank account statements

    Comment


    • #3
      1. Is it "your son" or both your son?

      2. which one is it, he is either involved or not?

      3. You realize you are coming across as a gatekeeper in your post...what gives you the right to think you make all the calls?

      4. Funny you talk about being spiteful....isn't that exactly what you are doing to your STBX?

      Listen...you can't see it now because emotions are running high, but try to think about the child and the potential of them getting messed up psychologically. No new boyfriend will replace a bio dad

      Originally posted by elaineb View Post
      Just some background: I have a pre-motion hearing in two weeks, I am seeking sole custody of my 5 year old.

      My ex tried to commit suicide approx 7 months ago, it was not until after that I found out that he had tried several years ago as well. He hid his previous mental health issues. He also has a chronic illness, history of depression.

      Since my son has been born, my ex was involved but not involved. Even when together for example, never put my son to bed, bathed, got him dressed, etc. I have not allowed overnight visits since we separated. He has also either been unemployed or worked out of province for part of every year since my son was born. I work full time, same employer for 20 years, no mental health issues, etc.

      Just wondering how others fared in getting sole custody? I have no issue with visitation but have concerns on overnight visits, behavioral issues following visits. I also have concerns about how controlling my ex is, his explosive temper, mental health. I know every time I want to travel with my son for example, he will try to stop it out of spite. How did others deal with this? I requested a psychological assessment but he only went to see a psychologist once, admits mental health issues but says hes better.

      Also, I make approx $50K per year, he makes about $25-$30K per year, hides income. What is a fair split for s7 expenses? Has anyone been successful in proving the other parent is hiding income to pay less?

      Comment


      • #4
        Guess I should have given a little more info. My ex also has another son. When his son was 7 years old, he moved to another province to be closer to the mother who moved there 2 months earlier but there was an order in another province that had given him day to day care. After seven months living there, the other son was living with the mother with weekend access to him, he fled across the country with him during the weekend access. He was not convicted of abduction bc the province he fled to, there was a court order giving him day to day care. He is aware of loopholes in the system. Because he has caused confrontations in front of our son, I have asked that all access arrangements be made through the lawyers which was done. I do have some documentation showing his explosive temper, assaulting a relative, abusing animals. Then two months ago, he refused to return our son despite having the agreed time he would be returned. When I told him I was calling the RCMP, he said to go ahead that without a court order, they would do nothing. He was right.

        Since then, I suggested to have an interim order in place which allowed police involvement if he wasn't returned as a safeguard. It also outlined times of visitation that we both agreed upon until we could go to court.

        My lawyer has requested since Feb his medical history. I have emails from other people confirming his previous suicide attempt as they were there and there would be a hospital record as well. And for this attempt, I was the one that called the ambulance.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
          Guess I should have given a little more info. My ex also has another son.
          That's none of your business.

          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
          Because he has caused confrontations in front of our son, I have asked that all access arrangements be made through the lawyers which was done. I do have some documentation showing his explosive temper, assaulting a relative, abusing animals. Then two months ago, he refused to return our son despite having the agreed time he would be returned. When I told him I was calling the RCMP, he said to go ahead that without a court order, they would do nothing. He was right.
          was he ever charged with assault ? Was he ever charged for abusing animals? What evidence do you have to support these claims.

          He can keep the child for as long as he wants without a court order, he's not breaking the law in any way. Keep in mind if he keeps the child or you keep the child that doesn't change the status quo , the status quo is what was in place prior to the seperation

          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
          Since then, I suggested to have an interim order in place which allowed police involvement if he wasn't returned as a safeguard. It also outlined times of visitation that we both agreed upon until we could go to court.
          You suggested an order that would allow for the police to be involved with your child - this is not good for the kids - why should he agree to your terms? Maybe that is all that you would agree with and he wants more from the courts.

          Originally posted by elaineb View Post

          My lawyer has requested since Feb his medical history. I have emails from other people confirming his previous suicide attempt as they were there and there would be a hospital record as well. And for this attempt, I was the one that called the ambulance.

          So he wanted to commit suicide and you called an ambulance?

          from who do you have emails from? Good luck obtaining his medical history and hospital records - if you don't find anything in those records that helps your case you will have little to no chance in securing sole custody.

          Comment


          • #6
            A couple of suggestions:

            1. Document, document, document. When it comes to mental health, "he said/she said" is not much use. Do you know what hospitals or clinical practices he has been treated at? Do you know the names of his treating physicians? Do you have reports or documents from medical professionals attesting to his problems? Have you tried a freedom-of-information request to the police, if they have been involved because of his erratic behavior? Basically, what you say or what your friends say won't carry much weight. Reports from neutral, objective third parties are more important.

            2. Parenting plan. Unless there is strong evidence that he endangers the child, asking for sole custody won't fly. Think about what kind of parenting plan you could propose that would enable your ex to have a relationship with the child while also meeting safety concerns. Doing pickups/dropoffs in a public location is a good start. You could also suggest that for overnight visits, another adult should be present. Having a detailed parenting plan will get you further than just asking for custody.

            On this forum you will encounter several posters who will be certain without ever having met you, that you are trying to alienate him from his father and will accuse you of withholding your son and being controlling. Sometimes when people claim that their ex is mentally ill and unstable they are making things up. Sometimes the severe mental illness is real. The only way to distinguish between the two is to document the illness and its effects.

            Comment


            • #7
              if you can prove what you are saying and you're a woman, you will get sole custody. The bar is very low for women to get sole custody.... they fathers have to be extremely good to get shared custody awarded by a judge....

              Comment


              • #8
                1. Does he have a police record. Who cares about your friend's e-mails.

                2. Parents with disorders or have attempted suicide can still be good parents.

                3. Has he ever harmed a child?

                4. He's already been granted an order for day to day access which means another judge didn't think he was much harm to children.

                5. If you're so concerned why not a CAS call? If you did, what was the outcome of the CAS investigation? Those will be important doc's while playing gatekeeper and saying no overnight's, etc.

                I still haven't heard of any "evidence" regarding his ability to parent that would warrant your gatekeeping behaviors.

                What I do hear is a lot of emotional, subjective feelings about your relationship .. and not about him as a father. (Sounds like you have a sour taste in your mouth about his other child and mother as well). If he wants to show you how great of a father he is in this new set up .. why don't you let him? You can't nail a person for jaywalking before they cross the street.

                Here, read this: I used it in court .. your ex should too.:
                http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...ase-law-16809/
                [13] Allegations of abuse may be a symptom of the failure of a relationship. Blame is an inherent part of the allegation. Sometimes it is wholly warranted; other times it is not. When parties are not communicating, any slight or criticism is magnified. There is a tendency to minimize the other spouse’s good qualities and maximize the bad. Warring spouses are rarely in a position to step back and evaluate the other’s behaviour with objective eyes. Nor are they able to critically assess their own behaviour...
                Let him have overnights. Give him a chance to step up to the plate. Maybe then he won't feel he has to leave with the child to get some extra time with them.

                Just please ... stop gatekeeping without any sufficient evidence or CAS material to do so.

                Just my $0.02
                Last edited by LovingFather32; 10-18-2016, 11:36 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you. And yes, that is quickly evident that people automatically assume the worst of the other parent..

                  If I didn't have concerns about safety, I would not be seeking sole custody with supervised visits. I am a firm believer of both parents being involved in a child's life. My ex loves his son, in that there is no doubt. If I hadn't witnessed his complete lack of control of his actions when he gets angry, would be different (5 year old can't defend themselves). The suicide aspect is another issue again, same with history of depression I was unaware of.

                  It was a child counselor that recommended no overnight visits until my son was older.

                  I have been doing public drop offs/pick up since the last incident. Also did the interim order to make sure my son saw his father, had telephone contact between visits. I also have a responsibility to ensure my son's safety as well while trying to ensure my lo has a relationship with his father. If I didn't have safety concerns, it would be much different situation.

                  He has acknowledged that he has mental health issues to his lawyer. Obviously there is a record from the ambulance, police, hospital records as well, just hasn't been provided.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If I allow my lo to be put in a situation where harm comes to him, I can be held liable and charged with neglect. If I have concerns as a parent, whether I was the mother or the father, I have a responsibility to ensure those concerns are addressed. I would consider myself a very irresponsible parent if I didn't.

                    I don't see myself as a gatekeeper but a responsible parent. I need to make sure that safeguards are in place. So yes, thank you to the person that suggested having a parenting plan.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                      If I didn't have concerns about safety, I would not be seeking sole custody with supervised visits.
                      Why didn't the past judge share your concerns about him being around children. That judge gave him day-to-day care with no supervision. Remember that. This is what YOU think.

                      If I hadn't witnessed his complete lack of control of his actions when he gets angry, would be different (5 year old can't defend themselves).
                      Great, so I assume you called CAS and there's a report since he's been this aggressive with a child? You avoided this question.
                      Remember that a child can not defend themselves from a parent gatekeeping from another parent, which can also be extremely harmful to them.

                      It was a child counselor that recommended no overnight visits until my son was older.
                      Hopefully a certified child counselor with expertise in divorce. I assume the counselor was smart enough to at least suggest a graduated schedule so that overnights could happen the near future?

                      I also assume that you had your ex involved in this "counselor" meeting? Or did the counselor only get to hear your side of things? I bet the latter.

                      If I didn't have safety concerns, it would be much different situation.
                      CAS notifed of all your "safety concerns"? Or you saving them all for sole custody in court?

                      Obviously there is a record from the ambulance, police, hospital records as well, just hasn't been provided.
                      Actually it's not that obvious. I hope you know that even if there's a hospital record, previous depression., etc.....you have to PROVE with EVIDENCE that his ability to parent is compromised. You cant just say .."he gets mad".."he tried to attempt suicide". You need more than that.

                      When has he abused your child? Or any child? In case I missed it.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I don't see myself as a gatekeeper but a responsible parent. I need to make sure that safeguards are in place. So yes, thank you to the person that suggested having a parenting plan.
                        Again .. your ex has NEVER abused your child or any other child, has no CAS record.. and you have NO evidence of any abuse or even a past concern of abuse.

                        You can't just withold access to another loving parent because you're trying to prevent something that probably wouldn't ever happen....and never has in the past. That IS gatekeeping and extremely irresponsible IMO.

                        If any harm or abuse is being done .. it's keeping your child from the other parent. Read up on the potential side effects/behaviors that can elicit both now and in the future for your child.
                        Last edited by LovingFather32; 10-18-2016, 12:00 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                          Just some background: I have a pre-motion hearing in two weeks, I am seeking sole custody of my 5 year old.
                          That is a case conference. Nothing substantial can be ordered regarding custody and access unless it is on consent of both parties. My advice to the opposing parent in this matter is to not consent to any supervised access or soul custody. My advice to you is as follows...

                          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                          My ex tried to commit suicide approx 7 months ago, it was not until after that I found out that he had tried several years ago as well. He hid his previous mental health issues. He also has a chronic illness, history of depression.
                          Firstly you will need relevant evidence to these hearsay statements. That would include actual medical records and a diagnosis from a clinician that the other parent is unfit to parent. All you have is "hearsay" based on a "belief" which is not admissible evidence.

                          As well, over the past 5 years of the child's life the CAS or the police involved with the other parent? If not, you might as well pass go and drop these allegations because they won't get you far at all.

                          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                          Since my son has been born, my ex was involved but not involved. Even when together for example, never put my son to bed, bathed, got him dressed, etc. I have not allowed overnight visits since we separated.
                          Unless the other parent has a major physical (or mental) disability that prevents them from performing these function they are all menial tasks that any person with an IQ greater than 70 can and do perform. Just because you state that the other parent has never done these tasks does not mean they can't do them. They will have to do them now that you are separating.

                          Also the child is 5. Most of these tasks can be done by a 5 year old without involvement from a parent directly. Supervision is only required to complete most of these tasks.

                          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                          He has also either been unemployed or worked out of province for part of every year since my son was born. I work full time, same employer for 20 years, no mental health issues, etc.
                          Again, not relevant to the custody and access dispute. It may mean that you have to pay the other parent child support if it is 50-50 or they are awarded sole custody and the majority of access.

                          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                          Just wondering how others fared in getting sole custody?
                          Courts don't order "sole custody" much these days. Sole custody usually only happens when one parent stupidly consents to it at a conference or in settlement.

                          Sole custody is really not that important. The child from what I read doesn't have major health issues or education issues (special needs). So, having "sole custody" is a label more than anything relevant in this matter. As well, the other parent will have access to all medical and educational records anyways and if something major goes on they will be back before the court on a material change in circumstance to seek the courts assistance if you are making the wrong decision.

                          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                          I have no issue with visitation but have concerns on overnight visits, behavioral issues following visits.
                          Also, it is "access" or better stated as "residency" and NOT "visitation". That is a very negative term to use in a court. You should drop it form your vocabulary.

                          Access is the RIGHT OF THE CHILD and not that of a "custodial" or "majority access parent". Get that straight right off the bat or you are going to have some serious issues with a judge.

                          Who is having the "behavioural issues"? I suspect you are mentioning the child. The child is going through a transition and will have some challenges. Be a parent and parent. Don't try to lob blame on the other parent. Deal with them appropriately. Work with and not against the other parent to resolve these.

                          At the end of the day the other parent will always be involved in the child's life.

                          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                          I also have concerns about how controlling my ex is, his explosive temper, mental health. I know every time I want to travel with my son for example, he will try to stop it out of spite.
                          Again, courts do not make orders based on what you "think" may happen. They make orders on actual evidence and not personal anxieties / worries / fears that you have.

                          I would recommend you read the recent case law provided in this thread.

                          http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...has-all-20398/

                          In particular paragraph 215. Sorry to say but, "controlling" is an odd thing to say about someone when you are self aware. See the quote provided by LovingFather32. You have a very huge hill to climb on that allegation of "violence and abuse" (Rule 24.4 of the CLRA).

                          90% of the applications going before the court make this allegation. In most cases both parents make it. By simply filing as an application and being the applicant you are being "controlling" and are trying to "control" the situation. You better realize that you are now the instigator in the dispute. Although your lawyer will tell you it doesn't matter... It does. Judges closely look at who brings what allegation forward.

                          A judge recently said in a court room that lairs often speak first.

                          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                          I requested a psychological assessment but he only went to see a psychologist once, admits mental health issues but says hes better.
                          You can request all you want. In fact, getting an order for proper psychological testing is very hard to get. A member of this form who has been to trial, has sole custody and majority access where the access parent has supervised access (for 3+ years now) hasn't been able to get a proper order for a psyc eval of the other parent. In fact, this is after two trials - one of them being for an attempted abduction of the child!

                          So, what makes you think a court would ever order this if one of the most cited and published family law cases in the past 10 years can't? With TWO very well respected justices presiding over the matter?

                          Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                          Also, I make approx $50K per year, he makes about $25-$30K per year, hides income. What is a fair split for s7 expenses? Has anyone been successful in proving the other parent is hiding income to pay less?
                          S7 is split on balance of incomes.

                          50+30 = 80 household income
                          50/80*100 = 63% (you owe)
                          30/10*100 = 37% (other parent owes)

                          Also, if the other parent gets 50-50 (which is highly likely if they have a lawyer already) you will be paying the other parent $205 a month in ON.

                          Good Luck!
                          Tayken

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                            Guess I should have given a little more info.
                            Evidence is what we need. Not "info" (aka hearsay/beliefs/anxieties).

                            Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                            My ex also has another son. When his son was 7 years old, he moved to another province to be closer to the mother who moved there 2 months earlier but there was an order in another province that had given him day to day care.
                            So, you already have a major problem. The other parent has been a parent and through this already with a court order (or agreement) in hand. This doesn't work well for you as the court will seriously consider that other order when making this new one.

                            You may even see an affidavit from the other parent in that matter stating everything is ok in that matter. If that is the case it will quickly make you look like the problem and not the other parent. Always be mindful that there is evidence you do not have access to that will be called forward.

                            Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                            After seven months living there, the other son was living with the mother with weekend access to him, he fled across the country with him during the weekend access. He was not convicted of abduction bc the province he fled to, there was a court order giving him day to day care.
                            The better answer is that it was not 282.(1) Abduction (CCC) because he had an order that was issued in the habitual residential location of the child and he returned with the child to that location prior to a status quo being established.

                            This was and never would be "abduction". He had an order that probably stated the residential location of the child which your order will have too. If the parent is this aware of how the court system works and how jurisdiction trumps stuff like this you have a lot of work on your hands. If he has the same lawyer from the previous file you are even more in trouble because they have a strong working relationship with significant success.

                            Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                            He is aware of loopholes in the system.
                            There are no loop holes in the system. What the other parent is aware of is the system and how it works. What you don't know you label as a "loop hole". You better get a very good lawyer. You are dealing with a parent with what appears to be advanced knowledge of the family law system.

                            Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                            Because he has caused confrontations in front of our son, I have asked that all access arrangements be made through the lawyers which was done.
                            Again, who cares what you ask for. You can ask him to agree that the moon is made of bbq spare ribs. He can refuse or consent and state the moon is made of bbq spare ribs. Considering he was successful in returning a child to their habitual residential location you won't get him to agree and just wasted 800$ with your lawyer to send a letter that only makes things worse - not better.

                            Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                            I do have some documentation showing his explosive temper, assaulting a relative, abusing animals.
                            Unless the document is from CAS or Police your "documentation" is useless.

                            Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                            Then two months ago, he refused to return our son despite having the agreed time he would be returned. When I told him I was calling the RCMP, he said to go ahead that without a court order, they would do nothing. He was right.
                            Again, this isn't a loop hole. This is a fact and he is aware of it. In fact, you just got sucker punched. He was probably very calm with the RCMP and you probably were emotional. He will pull that record and it will show up in the court file. Never ever again call the police unless brains, blood or bruises are present on the child or yourself. Every other reason will result in "he was right".

                            You already have dropped the probability scoring on anything you present by pulling this stunt. The RCMP will have flagged this situation and not respond in the future and just log it. Making you look even worse when the evidence is presented.

                            Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                            Since then, I suggested to have an interim order in place which allowed police involvement if he wasn't returned as a safeguard. It also outlined times of visitation that we both agreed upon until we could go to court.
                            They won't put a police involvement clause in. I posted case law on why they won't. You can "dream" whatever you want but, the police are not for enforcing custody orders. They should only be involved in matters of child abduction and endangerment.

                            Here is the link for you as you are new:

                            http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/f...-clause-17252/

                            “When parties involve police in their access disputes, they might as well climb onto the roof of their house, straddle the peak, and, with outreached arms, proclaim to the heavens that they have failed as parents and as human beings.”
                            Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                            My lawyer has requested since Feb his medical history.
                            Your lawyer is wasting your money. Your lawyer sucks. You might as well ask him to provide his consent that the moon is made of BBQ spare ribs and to answer the question if he would eat it if it was?

                            You have too much faith in your lawyer. Your lawyer is milking you with letters. You need to get control of your file as you will quickly run out of $. The other parent knows this and is probably going to let you burn up all your finances and then strike.

                            Originally posted by elaineb View Post
                            I have emails from other people confirming his previous suicide attempt as they were there and there would be a hospital record as well. And for this attempt, I was the one that called the ambulance.
                            Again, all useless as none of the emails are admissible without the parties testifying by affidavit or in person. As well, they are not qualified clinicians. As well, this may be an isolated incident that has been dealt with medically. It isn't great evidence to demonstrate that you can get a pile of negative advocates together to say bad things.

                            Good Luck!
                            Tayken

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by LovingFather32 View Post
                              Again .. your ex has NEVER abused your child or any other child, has no CAS record.. and you have NO evidence of any abuse or even a past concern of abuse.

                              You can't just withold access to another loving parent because you're trying to prevent something that probably wouldn't ever happen....and never has in the past. That IS gatekeeping and extremely irresponsible IMO.

                              If any harm or abuse is being done .. it's keeping your child from the other parent. Read up on the potential side effects/behaviors that can elicit both now and in the future for your child.
                              You can't assume that Mom is only saying that Dad has mental health issues because she is trying to keep the kid from Dad. Dad may be a loving, concerned parent. Or Dad may be a crazy, dangerous parent. You don't know, and I don't know. That's why objective third-party professional reports are so important - because they come from people who have objective knowledge of the situation and who don't jump to conclusions about parents' motives.

                              Comment

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