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Ex wants new separation agreement ... should I be worried?

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  • Ex wants new separation agreement ... should I be worried?

    Separated for 4 years, agreement in place for more than 3. Agreement was done through lawyers and states that our 3 kids live "primarily" with me and that ex is to pay CS according to the tables.

    In reality, the kids have lived nearly exclusively with me for the first 2 years following the agreement and have lived with her about 2 days a week for the last year. She has paid virtually no CS the entire time (except for a few hundred here and there) but she has generally paid for half of childcare and other child related expenses such as music lessons etc.

    She now wants to reopen the separation agreement and change it so that either (a) she gets 50-50 and therefore is not required to pay CS (our incomes are about the same), or (b) have the agreement state that I wave the right to CS but that she continue to pay half of childcare etc.

    I have never asked her to honour the current agreement in terms of CS but she is apparently concerned that someday I may change my mind about that.

    Should I be worried?

  • #2
    Originally posted by iceberg View Post
    ... what is there to fear?
    My only fear is that she tries to get 50-50 or possibly even more than that. If she tries what are her chances? She can barely handle 2 days a week and I fear for the kids. Without getting into details she can be pretty volotile. From what I read here a lot of the time mothers tend to get their way more often than not. But surely in our case the 3 year precedent of them living mainly with me should count for something? It's just kind of upsetting. Everything has been going along so smoothly so far and now this ...

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't think you can waive CS. It's the right of the child, it can't be traded off against other elements of a separation agreement, like access. You can choose not to pursue her for the CS she owes you (which could be a very reasonable decision if she's really volatile and you're doing okay financially), and it's unlikely that you would ever get retroactive CS from her, should you even attempt that, because you're clearly managing without it, but nonetheless, she still has a financial obligation to her children that she can't barter away. It sounds like she needs some legal advice.

      Has her time with the children been gradually increasing, or has it been stuck at 2 days/wk for the past year? If it's been increasing over time, perhaps she could make an argument that the situation is evolving towards a 50/50 split and the separation agreement should reflect that.

      Unless there's something else going on, I find it hard to believe that she could get more than shared custody if she took this to court. I don't see why you even need to negotiate with her right now. She wants to amend the separation agreement; you don't. That's all there really is to say.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by stripes View Post
        I don't think you can waive CS. It's the right of the child, it can't be traded off against other elements of a separation agreement, like access. .
        I seem to remember my lawyer saying the same thing when the SA was being written up. Anyway, I haven't been asking for it so it makes no sense to me why she wants that explicitly stated since that's the way it already is.

        Has her time with the children been gradually increasing, or has it been stuck at 2 days/wk for the past year?
        No. she has never had them more than 2 days per week except one time when she took them out of town for 3 days to visit relatives. Sometimes it's only 1, sometimes not at all.

        I don't see why you even need to negotiate with her right now. She wants to amend the separation agreement; you don't. That's all there really is to say.
        That's pretty much what I told her ... that since she's already getting what she says she wants, then why bother going through the hassle and expense of having the agreement officially changed? That's when out of the blue she said that if I wasn't willing to do it she would seek 50-50 so that she "for sure" didn't have to pay anything. And yes, iceberg, that is pretty sad.

        The thing is that everything has been going along smoothly and we have cooperated with everything regarding the children. I think what is at the root of this is that she has a new boyfriend who is apparently right in the middle of negotiating HIS separation agreement. Seems like too much of a coincidence that there is not some underlying influence there ...

        Comment


        • #5
          Judges don't change the status quo without a reason, there needs to be a significant change for a judge to change soemthing that has been in place. A problem with the kids or something significant. I think if you go to court a judge might even more firmly establish the situation as it is AND order her to pay the full/proper child support.

          Set her up so that its clear her intentions are for CS, I would try to get some email discussion going where she basically accepts to forego though custody if you don't ask for CS and then take that email to the judge for the cherry on top proving she is doing it for the money.

          Comment


          • #6
            Tell her you will apply for retro CS if she goes to court.

            Shame on her for not paying CS.

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            • #7
              Thanks everyone for the advice and reasurrance. She claims she is seeing her lawyer next week ... we'll see what happens with that.

              Comment


              • #8
                Can I ask why you have not pursued her paying the cs she owes you? I have been dealing with courts, reading forums and generally speaking with people about divorce issues for 3 years now. I find this to be common among men who are owed support, but not women. Why is that? In my opinion, the men who continue to allow this are actually a huge part of the overall problem with the system. If more and more women are forced to pay cs and ss, I am sure the system would change, and fast! Please, enforce these orders! I think the men are so happy just to have their kids and are so scared of going to court and losing them (some men's thoughts I have spoken too). It's very sad. Any thoughts?

                Comment


                • #9
                  I think you hit the nail on the head there with your second last sentence wife#2. When she left us (me and the kids) she flat out told me that she thought the kids would be better off with me and that she didn't want anything from me except half of everything. At the time I was the only one working so I suppose she could have got spousal support if she was so inclined. When I went to see a lawyer he could hardly believe it but said if what I was saying was all true that I had better get a SA signed asap before she changed her mind because if she did she would likely get whatever she wanted no matter how screwed up she was at the time. To me that is what is very sad.

                  He also advised me not to rock the boat and that the longer I was able to maintain status quo as the primary parent the better it would be for me (and consequntly the kids in this case) when she eventually decided she wanted to change things. He was a pretty old lawyer with many many years of experieince in family law and emphasized WHEN she wanted to change things, not IF. Sure enough, here we are 3 years later and he was right.

                  So, with the state of the system currently, it seems quite possible that if I had insisted that she pay CS from the beginning I likely would not have had time to establish status quo and may very well be in the sad situation of only seeing my kids twice a week while supporting an unfit mother just because she is a mother. Sorry if you think people like me are part of the problem for people like you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It is very sad! I suppose it's not that I think you are part of the problem, it is much more of a problem with the system that you, and many other men, are made to feel that, and with good reason! But I still stand by my statement that if more and more women were paying cs and ss, the system will change! Statistically, 30% of women make more than their partners and yet the FRO deals with 97% men. So how does this work? Why such a difference? In what I have seen and heard, it is exactly because of situations like your's, which sucks! Best of luck to you!!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                      It is very sad! I suppose it's not that I think you are part of the problem, it is much more of a problem with the system that you, and many other men, are made to feel that, and with good reason! But I still stand by my statement that if more and more women were paying cs and ss, the system will change! Statistically, 30% of women make more than their partners and yet the FRO deals with 97% men. So how does this work? Why such a difference? In what I have seen and heard, it is exactly because of situations like your's, which sucks! Best of luck to you!!
                      I am going through a comparable situation to the OP. My soon to be ex wants 50/50 custody for money purposes only (not stated, but when she asked for the separation she said I could have 60/40. She said she needed minimum 40% because when she looked at the tables it was too much. Then all of a sudden 50/50 after talking to friends because if I make more than her I have to pay her CS, not difficult to connect those dots on why she's saying 50/50. One of her stated concerns is that if she agreed to me having much more time, I'd eventually go after her for CS). I haven't calculated percentages, but even in our agreement I wouldn't be surprised if it's closer to 70/30 for me. She can't handle the kids, nor does she want them around when its time for her to go to her gentlemen friends. On more than one occasion she's been waiting outside to go out as soon as I get home from work (I work part time twice a week - I've been a stay at home dad for a year), while the kids are still awake in the house, other times I barely have my shoes off before she blows past me out the door. Heck when we were at the office getting the SA written she was already weary of our agreement because it doesn't give her enough time to go out on weekends. I'm not making that up.

                      Anyways, in our discussions I've always said I don't care if it's 100/0, 80/20 or whatever, I don't want nor need child support from her. Men are forced into this situation by the system. If a man wants more than 50/50, he has to get it through agreement and rarely through the courts. If he then asks for CS, the woman will go to court, get 50/50 and avoid payment. If he goes to FRO or whatever, she'll just get the 50/50 bump and keep the kids with her that time to avoid paying, not because she really want to be with them.

                      If the OP pushes CS, the ex will simply increase the number of days she has the kids (to the detriment of the kids) to not pay.

                      In my case, I'm keeping my mouth shut and letting the pieces fall into place. Actual custody will be a lot higher than on paper and even if it falls into CS territory, I won't say anything because as soon as I do she'll increase her time and I won't get anything anyways. I'm certainly not willing to trade custody for money and I get where the OP is coming from here.

                      Maybe the day will come when this will change, but as a dad, the feeling is the system is stacked against you, if you have more than 50/50 you're lucky and don't want to rock the boat over money. Loving dads with more than 50/50 know they've won a lottery of sorts and don't want to lose that over a few hundred dollars a month. I know I'm not willing to be "trailblazer" on this issue. I will never go after her for a penny (or I guess now nickel) of CS if I'm a winner in the custody equation.

                      Tons of dads are like this, I was talking to another one a few weeks ago who's owed thousands upon thousands, but asked why should he rock the boat and lose custody time for money.

                      Moms don't have to worry about this and the system gives them the claws to go after the fathers.

                      Obviously CS is important, however as the system currently is, a man is pushing his luck if he tries for CS.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        From people who have ACTUALLY been in this situation and pursued custody "on paper" in order to adjust CS have the mothers actually been succesfully able to change the custody situation so they don't pay CS. If that is the case then does it happen the other way around, if we can actually collect documented cases of such a thing happening it might be worthwhile to do some real joint action....

                        Comment

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