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Parenting Issues This forum is for discussing any of the parenting issues involved in your divorce, including parenting of step-children.

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  #1  
Old 06-12-2019, 09:51 PM
seeker101 seeker101 is offline
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Default daycare withholding child info citing restraining order

I'm the father of a 2y old daughter who is currently in a licensed daycare full-time enrolled by the mother. It has been extremely difficult and frustrating in obtaining any info from the daycare or the mother as to how my daughter has been doing.

Another relevant piece of info is that I was charged with assault on mother nearly 2 years ago and that matter is still under trial. The usual restrictions i.e. no contact, can't go where ex normally visits, works, etc are still in place.

A couple of months ago, I was able to obtain a court order which states mother shall sign direction at daycare to permit the father to directly obtain info regarding the child. In terms of physical access, currently it's only supervised (through another independent provider).

After this access to information order, I contacted the daycare and their demand is that I first must come in the center so they can verify my identity and basically know who I am.

When they found out about the bail conditions (effectively a restraining order), and the supervised visits, daycare says I'm not allowed to visit their site and they cannot allow me to be present on the premises while my daughter is inside.

I explained I will specifically come when mother is not there so as to not breach bail conditions. I further explained I will not seek access to my daughter and only want to come into their office and make some inquiries.

Daycare persists that they're not allowed to let me in, talk to me, etc while my daughter is present inside.

I said if I cannot come into the center, can I communicate with you over the email, I'll even send you my ID for verification; they said no.

At that point, the daycare lady got annoyed and said you and your ex need to figure this out, discuss it with the judge, don't put us in the middle of this and if I persist, she will discontinue communication.

I'm trying to understand and seeking input on is if the daycare's position is reasonable. Is that what they typically do? Or are they actually in violation of the access to info Order and incorrectly interpreting the restraining order? Should I just wait until my criminal matter is resolved?

I know that, in Ontario, one can also file a complaint against the daycare to the Ministry of Education but before proceeding with that, I wanted to know what you guys thought? Has anyone experienced anything like this? How have you handled it?
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  #2  
Old 06-13-2019, 06:56 AM
Mom 2 Two Mom 2 Two is offline
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Is there someone higher up you can call regarding the daycare? Not for a complaint. But to find out if they are actually just following procedure or if they are just being difficult.

I think they should be able to meet with you in their office to discuss. But I also understand maybe hey have a fear of bringing you in.

I think they should be making an appointment with you after your child leaves for the day. Thatís the easy solution.


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  #3  
Old 06-13-2019, 07:14 AM
tilt tilt is offline
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If you have a restraining order, plus you are unable to see the child without supervision, the liability is too great for them to allow you on property. Probably the only way they would agree to see you is after hours and you accompanied by your lawyer. But then that means someone is staying late just for you (and most child care workers start early for the 7am drop-offs). Plus you have a documented history of violence and you will most likely be meeting with a woman, so there is the element of workplace safety to consider (and the laws around workplace safety are pretty strict in Ontario). So their stance seems reasonable and you pushing them only adds to the narrative that you are prioritizing yourself over everyone else.

Work on resolving the assault charges and focus your energy on your child. A judgeís Order only binds the parties to the matter (you and your ex), it does not bind the daycare to participate. Your ex isnít stopping you so you have no recourse to go back to court on this one.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:55 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Ask yourself this, is the information from the daycare really necessary information right now or is this simply a control thing? Shes 2. Thereís not much they can say. Oh shes happy and engages with other children well. Those are the things they will say. They are not professionals on psychology or medicine. The info you get is useless. Personally I think this is simply a control issue for you and you are feeling powerless as a result of your charges and supervised access.

Let it go. The daycare is right to not want to be involved. They have to adhere to a restraining order over an information order. Plus you are currently under supervised access which they also have to adhere to. Get through you trial on violence and then if it ends in your favour, get your info.
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Old 06-13-2019, 03:16 PM
seeker101 seeker101 is offline
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I hear what you guys are saying and where you're coming from. I appreciate a different perspective.

Technically, the restraining order is against the ex, not my daughter. Furthermore, I'm seeking access to info, not physical access. But daycare doesn't care.

Then there's scheduling difficulties with early or after hours meeting and my own work schedule.

I agree that it's purely a liability thing on the daycare's part than anything, they don't admit it to me but it is that. Rockscan is partially right in the sense that I do feel powerless as a parent. I feel like my worth as parent is diminished when I'm prejudiced like that.

Just to rant and vent a bit...
After the access order, I have had discussions with other professionals who are also involved with my daughter. From a self-centered point of view, it feels as if I should at least have a say in why they're involved, what exactly they're doing, etc. But from a child centric point of view, after I've had a chance to talk to them and they explain me what they've done for my child, I've actually thanked them for their service.

What's weird is that the same daycare under a previous supervisor allowed me to speak to my daughter's teacher over the phone when the mother had given verbal consent. And yes, it was the usual stuff, like she's doing well, she likes playing toys, reading books, etc but it was still nice to hear those things. The mother eventually revoked her verbal consent.

This new daycare supervisor won't even budge and is even rude at times as if I'm doing a crime by seeking info.

2 years onwards, the criminal matter is being dealt with but it's taking its sweet time with factors outside of my control. Meanwhile, in the family matter, the ex is using the unsubstantiated allegations of assault and abuse to her full advantage and doesn't agree to a normal access until it is resolved.

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  #6  
Old 06-13-2019, 06:15 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker101 View Post
unsubstantiated allegations of assault and abuse

You are on TRIAL for assault. This is not unsubstantiated, police charged you, the crown had a reasonable view of conviction and the case is now being tried. Until you are found not guilty you are a huge liability to a public facility with other children. If you were a regular parent with no issues, how would you feel knowing someone on trial for assault and has restricted, supervised access with HIS OWN child was in the same facility as your child?

Facilities with children have maximum protection measures in place to protect their vulnerable clients. Your rights mean nothing until you have an all clear. This should not even be a question. Yes I understand this is your child but she is two. Not a hill to die on during this timeline of your court case. You can simply add it to your next document that the school will not allow you on the premises to prove your identity. Period.

The longer you fight the process you have to go through the worse you make it for yourself. Be patient, do what you have to do and then take action when it is done. Unfortunately you made a mistake and only you can own (and endure) the consequences of that decision.
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Old 06-13-2019, 06:22 PM
seeker101 seeker101 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan View Post
The longer you fight the process you have to go through the worse you make it for yourself. Be patient, do what you have to do and then take action when it is done.

Unfortunately you made a mistake and only you can own (and endure) the consequences of that decision.
I'm being patient, it's not like I have any other choice at the moment.

And what mistake and consequences are you talking about?



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  #8  
Old 06-13-2019, 06:48 PM
standing on the sidelines standing on the sidelines is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker101 View Post
I'm being patient, it's not like I have any other choice at the moment.

And what mistake and consequences are you talking about?



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being charged with assault on the mother of your child and the consequences that you cannot get information from the daycare about your child.

What was the nature of the alleged assault?
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  #9  
Old 06-13-2019, 07:25 PM
seeker101 seeker101 is offline
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My original query has been adequately addressed and I agree with the advice that I've received.
Quote:
Originally Posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
being charged with assault on the mother of your child and the consequences that you cannot get information from the daycare about your child.



What was the nature of the alleged assault?
Well, you cannot stop someone from making false allegations. Apparently, in domestic cases, the police pretty much has a blanket policy to lay charges whenever a complaint is made, premise being that such concerns are always assumed to be taken seriously and truth/credibility can be dealt with later. The police charged and arrested me without even listening to my version of events.

Perhaps others who have been wrongly charged can corroborate this. I'm sure I'm not the first one to whom this has happened with neither would I be the last.

I just felt Rockscan's comment were uncalled for and it's as if she has already declared me guilty.

Without going too much into the details for anonymity, the charge is assault with a weapon; the weapon being a common household plastic item. Ex alleges I hit her on the leg with that plastic item. Police report says no medical attention was needed and no children were present.

Not sure if true but my defense lawyer during pretrial said, crown is not willing to withdraw because it's not a simple assault but assault with a weapon. Since criminal code doesn't differentiate between weapons, the Crown's general policy is that they would not drop this charge and would rather risk losing at trial.

Anyways, I'm grinding through the criminal justice system as best as I can and hoping it can be over soon.


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  #10  
Old 06-13-2019, 07:57 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seeker101 View Post
I just felt Rockscan's comment were uncalled for and it's as if she has already declared me guilty.

There are plenty of people on this forum who have been falsely accused and not charged. There are few who have been falsely charged but did not make it to trial. I have learned in legal situations that most cases do not go to trial when a crown attorney does not feel they can win. This includes charges of assault with a weapon. Iím not saying you are guilty, Iím saying you were in a situation where you were charged and have a case the crown thinks they have a chance of winning. Your ex did not need to be bloodied, broken and/or hospitalized for the police to have reason to believe she was assaulted and the crown felt strongly enough to pursue it. I declared that you needed to sit down and stop banging your fist about something as trivial as getting info from a daycare until that matter is done.

Whatever happened between you two is for the court to decide and when it has been decided you can move on with your access to your child. A point which is pretty much what the daycare was trying to tell you.
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