Ottawa Divorce .com Forums


User CP

New posts

Advertising

  Ottawa Divorce .com Forums > Main Category > Parenting Issues

Parenting Issues This forum is for discussing any of the parenting issues involved in your divorce, including parenting of step-children.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 06-06-2019, 01:35 PM
shepherd shepherd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 29
shepherd is on a distinguished road
Default Initiating access with 11 y/o

Hello,

I am trying to initiate an interim access schedule with my 11 y/o. My spouse insists she is "supportive", but that my child does not want to see nor speak to me. She claims this is a function of my "past behavior" (ie: false abuse allegations). Unfortunately, my child has been convinced of these as well.
There has been numerous instances of clearly inappropriate, alienating behaviors on my spouse's part since my departure from the home last Nov., including sharing details of financials and other legal issues.

I am asking the court for therapeutic access with a therapist to re-initiate contact. Left to the child's decision, it would not happen; I am hoping the court will place the onus on the parent to enforce attendance if so ordered.

Am I being reasonable in thinking the court would support this, or are they likely to just agree with the idea of "if the kid doesn't want to, don't push them"?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-06-2019, 02:15 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,527
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Did you have a parenting schedule that is not being adhered to?

Yes: then you advise your ex that this is denial of access, that your child is not old enough to make that decision and you will be following the agreed upon schedule to the T. You should also seek out therapy.

No: get an order for time. You should file a motion immediately for custody and parenting time. Start with a 50:50 regime and go from there. Also, therapy.

Fighting with your ex won’t make a difference. Your response is simply “I will be picking up kid for my time at x time.” And you show up and document.

Document document document.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-06-2019, 02:25 PM
shepherd shepherd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 29
shepherd is on a distinguished road
Default

Thank you for your comments. We have not even been to court yet, have a scheduled early case conference in a week. Based on your feedback, it seems I am on the right track.

I have been in weekly therapy since leaving. Initially, we agreed both kids would also have individual therapy, this was discontinued by spouse again on the basis of the children refusing. 11 yo's therapist was concerned enough that she contacted CAS over parent's in ability to get child to attend.

Her lawyer is parroting exactly my spouse's excuses, saying I am laying unfounded blame on spouse for frustrating access, asking what proof I have that spouse is blocking access. They are claiming I was emotionally and physically abusive for the entire relationship, and toward the children. I m concerned of the "guilty until proven otherwise" phenomenon regarding unfounded abuse. However, I am hoping that the fact I am the one asking for therapeutic intervention and the involvement of the OCL, that these allegations will not be taken as writ.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-06-2019, 02:47 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,527
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Did she make a claim with the police or CAS? Then she needs to stop making excuses. Your response to the lawyer is simply “this is denial of access and I will be noting it”.

Or you could even suggest supervised access with a family member.

The bottom line though is an 11 yo does not get to decide and the mother IS refusing to facilitate the time. Those are the key words—encourage and facilitate. If your child is not seeing you because they are scared then supervision can be suggested to demonstrate you are working to see the kids. If the child is not seeing you because of something that happened before between you and your ex then that is not her business. Your ex is obligated to encourage and facilitate time with you period.

Make sure you document everything that was said and that you make note of this at the conference. Stress you want an interim parenting schedule that both parties must adhere to. Then you continue to document everything.

I would also suggest you look into some parenting after divorce classes. Not sure who runs them (may be worth a call to CAS) but get into every class possible and point out your therapy. Judges like parents who do whatever possible to be good parents. By registering before the conference you will have a leg up on your ex.

And whatever you do, DO NOT give up shared or 50:50 custody. You walk in there saying you want equal time. That way you don’t have the EOW issue with alienation.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-06-2019, 04:15 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,095
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shepherd View Post
We have not even been to court yet
How did you lose custody of an 11 year old without even going to court? How did you lose your parenting time?

Quote:
Based on your feedback, it seems I am on the right track.
Really? Sounds like you lost your kid, and you continue to allow to situation to fester.

Quote:
Her lawyer is parroting exactly my spouse's excuses
That is her lawyer's job. Hopefully you were not expecting your spouse's lawyer to be fair or something silly like that. Her lawyer's job is to make sure that you don't get access, no matter how good you are at parenting. That lawyer will happily lie to you and mislead you. That lawyer is not on your side, never forget that.

Perhaps you think the lawyer should care about the best interests of your kid? Nope, that's the judge's job. The lawyer only cares about her client. Your kid is not her client. The lawyer does not care a whit about your child.

Quote:
I'm concerned of the "guilty until proven otherwise" phenomenon regarding unfounded abuse.
You let her take away your parenting time. Sounds like you effectively pleaded guilty. You brought this on yourself.

Quote:
However, I am hoping that the fact I am the one asking for therapeutic intervention and the involvement of the OCL, that these allegations will not be taken as writ.
That's a sideshow. It will not matter much who asks for therapy or asks for OCL involvement. As a bonus, if you involve OCL, they will almost certainly recommend that you become an EOW weekend. You will then have a professional opinion saying that your current situation of little time with the kid should continue.

What matters is the status quo. Somehow you gave up almost all of your parenting time.

Why can't you just get the kid now? The longer this status quo continues the harder it will be to change it. It will be months until you get to a trial, if you are lucky. Is your plan going to be "wait until trial to get equal parenting time"?
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-06-2019, 04:58 PM
shepherd shepherd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 29
shepherd is on a distinguished road
Default

Janus, I find your comments unnecessarily adversarial. If I am misinterpreting, I apologize.

Regardless, I left the matrimonial home in November to avoid further conflict. I am aware in hindsight of the strategic error, but as the sole earner, the conditions were becoming unlivable and affecting my job performance. The intent was that the kids would attend therapy to process the separation, but I quickly saw that my spouse's intents were not as collaborative as initially expressed. After a month or two of wasted time with a collaborative lawyer, there was no cooperation from my spouse on anything, so I moved to the litigation process.

My children have been told that I am at fault for the separation, and the imposed limitations on her previous unrestrained spending. They resent me for the inevitable sale of the home they grew up in. We are asking OCL involvement because the primary reason for the separation was a stark difference in parenting standards. Quite simply, she will not make the kids do anything they don't want to, including go to school. Why would they want to live with a parent that actually enforces rules? I could no longer be complicit in decisions that were being unilaterally made that were adversely affecting my children's future. The alternative to the OCL would be a section 30...I am essentially looking for an objective opinion that is not based simply on the preferences of a child. If you have any recommendations to that end, I am certainly eager to hear them.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-06-2019, 06:05 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,527
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

Janus is pointing out some reasonable questions you may get asked. As difficult as some people are to live with, leaving the home ends up being a big mistake especially when it comes to seeing the kids.

Let this be a lesson to anyone reading this thread—never accept your soon to be ex will work with you. Always always always expect they will turn on you the moment the door closes.

If you have her agreement on the kids in writing it will work in your favour. All she has are allegations. Most judges won’t even consider them unless they are backed up with a police report. I agree with Janus that OCL is worse rather than better. You really don’t need them to set a parenting schedule. Plus if they say dad is the best and the kids should be with him, your ex can fight it tooth and nail. Right now you need to focus on getting a shared custody schedule to set a new status quo. Your argument is you believed she was working in good faith and when you realized she wasn’t you were forced to wait for a court date.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-06-2019, 06:15 PM
shepherd shepherd is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 29
shepherd is on a distinguished road
Default

Fair enough, I certainly prefer to be told hard truth rather than platitudes.

The OCL was asked for more from the perspective that despite being the status quo stay at home parent, my spouses parenting skills and decision making capability are questionable at best. It was the hope that some sort of identification of these deficiencies would counteract the status quo argument in determining the kids best interests.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-06-2019, 06:22 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 4,527
rockscan will become famous soon enough
Default

She can lie to OCL too. Remember that.

If shes a stay at home mom you need to deal with that angle too. Get her in the workforce immediately. The parenting schedule will work out perfectly that way.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-06-2019, 11:28 PM
Janus's Avatar
Janus Janus is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,095
Janus will become famous soon enough
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shepherd View Post
Regardless, I left the matrimonial home in November to avoid further conflict.
You abandoned your kids because you found it tough to live at home? Did you feel at that point that the kid was better off living with the mom? What has changed since then?

Quote:
I am aware in hindsight of the strategic error, but as the sole earner, the conditions were becoming unlivable and affecting my job performance.
Your job was tough, so you abandoned your kids?

Seriously, you abandoned them before, and now you want them back? What has changed? Are you going to bail on them again in the future when the going gets tough?

Quote:
She will not make the kids do anything they don't want to, including go to school.
How many days did the kids miss in the last year? This might be an actual reason to wriggle your way back into their life.

Quote:
The alternative to the OCL would be a section 30
I feel that is a false dichotomy. A section 30 is just an expensive OCL. Unless your kids are missing an absolutely drastic amount of school, it is almost guaranteed that the recommendation will be that they continue to live primarily with their mother. They are doing fine now, why should anything change? Remember, that "fine" is "not dying or missing drastic amounts of school". I'm sure your definition of "fine" is different, but it is irrelevent.

The OCL report will embolden the mother to relegate you to a distant watcher in your children's life. Obviously hard to oppose it, but for crying out loud don't seek out this nightmare.

Quote:
If you have any recommendations to that end, I am certainly eager to hear them.
Immediately propose a schedule that leads to 50% parenting time. Make it escalate over a few months. Change the window. Let it not be about why you want more, make it about why on earth you should have anything less than 50%.

Make the schedule very very very specific. To the day. Make the offer now.

Graduated:

3 weeks: Wednesday after school until Thursday morning before school.
Next 3 weeks: Add Saturday 10am to Sunday 10am every other weekend
Next 3 weeks: Extend Sunday to 6pm
Next 3 weeks: Extend Sunday to Monday morning
Next 3 weeks: Look up 5522 schedule and head towards that.

Specific:

Say actual dates (June 19th is first Wednesday, etc.).

It's a little mucked up by the upcoming summer, but either way keep on increasing your time. But you must lay out the entire schedule. Every single week. Don't leave a "when we feel things are better" clause or crap like that.

Anyhow, I suspect you won't. I'm guessing that you think OCL will be fair and the trial will be fair and you will get 50% because that is fair. You are going to be horribly disappointed.

To the lurkers: Never leave home, no matter what. It is always the wrong move, and will likely cost you your children and most of your money.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help me make a fair access schedule please? representingself Divorce & Family Law 12 08-11-2011 10:48 PM
Police undertaking overrides order for access? formyGirls Divorce & Family Law 8 05-23-2011 03:32 PM
Custody and Access Decision-Making and the Breastfeeding Child: Cavannah v. Johne WorkingDAD Divorce & Family Law 8 05-03-2011 10:55 AM
Have I given up my rights as a parent? brokendad Common Law Issues 3 11-05-2009 06:57 PM
Case Conference Info tycooke Divorce & Family Law 9 07-12-2006 09:11 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:07 PM.