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  • Child support variability clause?

    My ex's offer says the following:


    ....
    Child support shall also be variable in the event of a material change in circumstances of either the Applicant, the Respondent or D2 that would affect child support.

    A material change in condition, means, needs or other circumstances of the parents or children may be foreseen or unforseen, foreseeable or unforseeable, and may include:

    (a) a material change in either party's financial position;

    (b) a change in undue hardship for either party or D2;

    (c) a change in D2's special or extraordinary expenses;

    (d) a change in D2's residence that affects the amount of child support under the Guidelines;

    (e) a child turning 18 years of age; or

    (f) a change in the child's need for support.

    35. Whoever seeks a change will give the other, in writing;

    (a) notice of the proposed change;

    (b) evidence support the proposed change; and

    (c) any request for information necessary to determine the issue.

    ....



    This is all garbage right? I'm striking the entire section. If there is a material change- either party may seek to alter child support with the courts.

  • #2
    I wouldn’t really say it’s garbage... all it’s doing is outlining what may constitute a material change that would effect CS... other than the extraordinary clause because those are separate from CS, I don’t see any real problems. Why do you disagree with these points?


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    • #3
      Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
      I wouldn’t really say it’s garbage... all it’s doing is outlining what may constitute a material change that would effect CS... other than the extraordinary clause because those are separate from CS, I don’t see any real problems. Why do you disagree with these points?


      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
      I thought the same, that all he is trying to do is cover his bases.

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      • #4
        Isn't this fairly standard in separation/parenting agreements. I have two that have this clause. Each of them also states that cs continues until the first post secondary diploma has been completed.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
          My ex's offer says the following:


          ....
          Child support shall also be variable in the event of a material change in circumstances of either the Applicant, the Respondent or D2 that would affect child support.

          A material change in condition, means, needs or other circumstances of the parents or children may be foreseen or unforseen, foreseeable or unforseeable, and may include:

          (a) a material change in either party's financial position;

          (b) a change in undue hardship for either party or D2;

          (c) a change in D2's special or extraordinary expenses;

          (d) a change in D2's residence that affects the amount of child support under the Guidelines;

          (e) a child turning 18 years of age; or

          (f) a change in the child's need for support.

          35. Whoever seeks a change will give the other, in writing;

          (a) notice of the proposed change;

          (b) evidence support the proposed change; and

          (c) any request for information necessary to determine the issue.

          ....



          This is all garbage right? I'm striking the entire section. If there is a material change- either party may seek to alter child support with the courts.
          I agree with you. I've no experience with child support issues but with other court documents. This one seems to be "stretching" things. Perhaps nicely suggest he keep it for his personal point of reference but you opt to go by family law & precedent?

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          • #6
            This is almost exactly the wording in my husband’s agreement. Its pretty standard. His ex argued that losing his job was not a material change and the lawyer advised that it doesn’t matter what your agreement says—income and living situation of the child dictates cs changes.

            If it is going to stall things don’t strike it. Its not the hill to die on.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
              This is almost exactly the wording in my husband’s agreement. Its pretty standard. His ex argued that losing his job was not a material change and the lawyer advised that it doesn’t matter what your agreement says—income and living situation of the child dictates cs changes.

              If it is going to stall things don’t strike it. Its not the hill to die on.


              My lawyer struck it. He said it’s garbage too. If a party has a material change - they can make the arguments to the court. Putting it in the agreement just allows him to do so unilaterally as long as he gives me “evidence” which hasn’t been tested.

              If they say something has to be in there. I’m going to add a clause that says any change has to be jointly agreed to by both Parties or ordered by the courts. Sure all those things may be valid- IF a court says they are.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by arabian View Post
                I agree with you. I've no experience with child support issues but with other court documents. This one seems to be "stretching" things. Perhaps nicely suggest he keep it for his personal point of reference but you opt to go by family law & precedent?


                Stretching is a nice way of putting it. He wants to be able to change CS without having to go to court.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                  Stretching is a nice way of putting it. He wants to be able to change CS without having to go to court.


                  My husband has changed child support for the past ten years without going to. Why would you have to go to court to change it? You do realize even without these clauses, if any of those clauses do happen CS will change right? This is actually super common in agreements and you’re making a mountain out of a molehill


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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                    ...the lawyer advised that it doesn’t matter what your agreement says—income and living situation of the child dictates cs changes.


                    Which strengthens my argument that we shouldn’t put things in there that wouldn’t hold up in court.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                      My husband has changed child support for the past ten years without going to. Why would you have to go to court to change it? You do realize even without these clauses, if any of those clauses do happen CS will change right? This is actually super common in agreements and you’re making a mountain out of a molehill


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                      It’s a bad clause because it allows for the parties to present “evidence” that hasn’t been tested. And then you argue and end up in court anyways.

                      My ex is an accountant - with a good lawyer. If his CS needs to change he’ll know what needs to be presented. If it’s bullshit evidence (anything other than his previous years NOA) I wouldn’t accept it anyways. So I’m not going to give him the opportunity to change it unilaterally. He can state all those terms- they’re not wrong- but just giving me “evidence” is not going to cut it.

                      I think people think standardized language is okay because it’s the norm. But how many people end up back here looking for advice? And end up in court anyways. Look at the spousal support tax question in this forum. That was some bullshit drafting that led the poster to some issues.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                        It’s a bad clause because it allows for the parties to present “evidence” that hasn’t been tested. And then you argue and end up in court anyways.

                        My ex is an accountant - with a good lawyer. If his CS needs to change he’ll know what needs to be presented. If it’s bullshit evidence (anything other than his previous years NOA) I wouldn’t accept it anyways. So I’m not going to give him the opportunity to change it unilaterally. He can state all those terms- they’re not wrong- but just giving me “evidence” is not going to cut it.

                        I think people think standardized language is okay because it’s the norm. But how many people end up back here looking for advice? And end up in court anyways. Look at the spousal support tax question in this forum. That was some bullshit drafting that led the poster to some issues.


                        So you’re going to court every year to update CS is what you’re saying? If he provides his NOA and his income increases and he agrees to pay more are you going to court to get a new order? What if his income decreases? And he agrees to pay what the guideline states? Are you going to disagree and go to court? This is such a waste of courts time. And a waste of your time as well... annual updating is the norm and very rarely does it involve court. Seems like your lawyer is just looking for more billable hours


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                        • #13
                          Child support variability clause?

                          Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                          So you’re going to court every year to update CS is what you’re saying? If he provides his NOA and his income increases and he agrees to pay more are you going to court to get a new order? What if his income decreases? And he agrees to pay what the guideline states? Are you going to disagree and go to court? This is such a waste of courts time. And a waste of your time as well... annual updating is the norm and very rarely does it involve court. Seems like your lawyer is just looking for more billable hours


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


                          No- because there is another clause regarding CS update based on the previous years T1- and revising section 7 contributions. These clauses are different.

                          My lawyer wouldn’t be doing the work either- I’ll be moving to a limited scope retainer after parenting is settled.

                          I do all the drafting and paperwork on my file anyways.


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                          Last edited by iona6656; 08-08-2019, 09:53 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by iona6656 View Post
                            No- because there is another clause regarding CS update based on the previous years T1- and revising section 7 contributions. These clauses are different.

                            My husband had that one too.

                            Truly, if you have an unreasonable ex, nothing in your agreement will matter. All the clauses my husbands ex ignores or misinterprets are completely clear. She chooses to ignore/misinterpret them. If we took out all the ones she won’t follow, the only ones left would be “pay cs” “send income info” and “reside primarily”.

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                            • #15
                              Today I received a rumbling from my ex (or his g/f). He is now picking apart one sentence in a judge's decision from 2014. Of course he doesn't reference the sentence afterwards. I kid you not. So I expect to start the annual court thing again soon. It has been so nice and peaceful...

                              My ex is a perfect example of someone who is unreasonable. I wonder if it is boredom?

                              Comment

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