Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Is it worth it

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is it worth it

    Hi again everyone,

    I need opinions... again.

    There are so many small issues going on, that I am losing my focus. I need some opinions about what you guys think is worth a fight or not.

    a. Ex wants 50% share of extraordinary expenses. (LOTS (lots) of orthodontics to come.) My lawyer thinks we should insist on proportionate to our income. (a 8% difference). I am undecided.

    b. Ex refuses to pay or participate in any extracurricular activities. No cooperation. (My lawyer thinks we can talk some sense into him. LOL) I would gladly pay for all future activities, if he would only drive them there on his week.

    c. stalling and trying to prevent dental and health care. (OK, I have a case for health care. Do the same rules apply for dental care?)

    d. won`t let me communicate regularly with kids during his week (I used to call once a week; now he won`t answer or return calls.)

    e. ex lies to me, to the kids about me, to the school on important matters.

    f. does not comply with our separation agreement about the beneficiary of his life insurance. (I will fight this one.)

    g. has undisclosed income. (I`m keeping that ace in my hand for now.)

    Background info : CS is offset of our income. Ex doesn`t pay a dime in anything other than CS.
    Ex has tendency to provoke conflict (or so I feel) and to push the limits. I am of the opinion that I need to fight even the little battles, or he will step all over me, as he has before.

    I am undecided between calling it quits, paying for everything and hoping I`ll have peace and quiet OR pushing forward, because I am afraid the conflicts won`t really stop even if I opt for the previous option.

    With the speed of our law system, I will lose my mind before my kids turn 18. If you guys see my mind, send it my way, with a bit of wisdom.

    Thank you so much.

  • #2
    How much is your sanity worth?

    More than the dollar amount of court costs, time, and stress of it all? Or less?

    That's your decision to mkae. No one can help you there.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Suzie View Post
      Hi again everyone,

      I need opinions... again.

      There are so many small issues going on, that I am losing my focus. I need some opinions about what you guys think is worth a fight or not.

      a. Ex wants 50% share of extraordinary expenses. (LOTS (lots) of orthodontics to come.) My lawyer thinks we should insist on proportionate to our income. (a 8% difference). I am undecided.

      - depends if you think your income will soon be higher than his. Court will usually do it according to incomes.

      b. Ex refuses to pay or participate in any extracurricular activities. No cooperation. (My lawyer thinks we can talk some sense into him. LOL) I would gladly pay for all future activities, if he would only drive them there on his week.

      - unless he has little income, he should be paying for some activities. Court can put a set amount on him that he has to pay each month through FRO. However you have no say on what he does during his week. Either you can enroll them and only take them on your weeks or you could see if you could switch access to 2-2-5-5, to allow the kids to maintain activities.

      c. stalling and trying to prevent dental and health care. (OK, I have a case for health care. Do the same rules apply for dental care?)

      - yes. This could also be grounds for sole custody if he continues.

      d. won`t let me communicate regularly with kids during his week (I used to call once a week; now he won`t answer or return calls.)

      - fight this as the kids should maintain contact with both parents. A week is a long time.

      e. ex lies to me, to the kids about me, to the school on important matters.

      - if you have proof use it, otherwise you have to let it go

      f. does not comply with our separation agreement about the beneficiary of his life insurance. (I will fight this one.)

      - he just needs to show you one time that you are the beneficiary, then he is good. Make sure he shows you.

      g. has undisclosed income. (I`m keeping that ace in my hand for now.)

      - if you have proof, use it. This would affect cs and s7.

      Background info : CS is offset of our income. Ex doesn`t pay a dime in anything other than CS.
      Ex has tendency to provoke conflict (or so I feel) and to push the limits. I am of the opinion that I need to fight even the little battles, or he will step all over me, as he has before.

      - don't fight all battles, just tell him what you want and let him know you'll go to court and ask for costs if he doesn't agree or provide reasonable alternatives.

      I am undecided between calling it quits, paying for everything and hoping I`ll have peace and quiet OR pushing forward, because I am afraid the conflicts won`t really stop even if I opt for the previous option.

      - don't quit for the kids' sake.

      With the speed of our law system, I will lose my mind before my kids turn 18. If you guys see my mind, send it my way, with a bit of wisdom.


      Thank you so much.

      - you're doing great, keep going

      Comment


      • #4
        I think you know what items you want to deal with, and its great you are very organized and focused. Try to be patient and let your lawyer deal with it, you are not asking for anything unreasonable. The only suggestion I would have for you is, being that the dad doesnt pay or buy anything for the kids beyond his child support, if it is agreed that he will pay for the extra activities, and if your kids need some tutoring or something like that, have it ordered that fro deals with it. I receive monthly his portion of tutoring ,and sports with my child support that comes to me through Fro. Your doing great.. It will all fall in place!

        Comment


        • #5
          I think the overriding concern when reading your post is that fighting over the small things will end up costing you much more in legal bills. Are you really willing to spend $20k-30k over a few hundred dollars just to make a point?

          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
          a. Ex wants 50% share of extraordinary expenses. (LOTS (lots) of orthodontics to come.) My lawyer thinks we should insist on proportionate to our income. (a 8% difference). I am undecided.
          Even on $10000, this is only 800 bucks. This is 2 hours of lawyer time. Guaranteed your lawyer will charge you more than 2 hours of time to resolve it.

          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
          b. Ex refuses to pay or participate in any extracurricular activities. No cooperation. (My lawyer thinks we can talk some sense into him. LOL) I would gladly pay for all future activities, if he would only drive them there on his week.
          You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. Most activities fall under normal CS and aren't extraordinary so he shouldn't need to pay extra for quite a lot of them. As for not participating, sadly it's his week to use as he chooses. Eventually the kid(s) will get older and ask Dad to take them to their activities.

          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
          c. stalling and trying to prevent dental and health care. (OK, I have a case for health care. Do the same rules apply for dental care?)
          Explain. Almost all health care is free so what's the hold up?

          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
          d. won`t let me communicate regularly with kids during his week (I used to call once a week; now he won`t answer or return calls.)
          This is rude but you are in the middle of an argument heading towards litigation. I wouldn't want to talk to you either.

          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
          e. ex lies to me, to the kids about me, to the school on important matters.
          Be the best parent you can be and ignore the BS.

          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
          f. does not comply with our separation agreement about the beneficiary of his life insurance. (I will fight this one.)
          My ex won't even GET insurance let alone set up beneficiaries properly. Luckily this only matters if they die.

          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
          g. has undisclosed income. (I`m keeping that ace in my hand for now.)
          If you can prove it good for you, but this is often hard to prove. In the end it doesn't matter a lot. If he is working a second job to have enough money to provide a good standard of living for the kids when they are with him, is it such a bad thing?

          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
          Ex has tendency to provoke conflict (or so I feel) and to push the limits. I am of the opinion that I need to fight even the little battles, or he will step all over me, as he has before.
          I still foolishly try to approach all "discussions" with my ex as an adult, offering compromise, pleading for her to communicate with me. But it didn't work when we were married it sure as hell doesn't work now. She has to win every fight, always get in the last word, and always at my expense.

          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
          I am undecided between calling it quits, paying for everything and hoping I`ll have peace and quiet OR pushing forward, because I am afraid the conflicts won`t really stop even if I opt for the previous option.
          Remember that lawyers are not experts in conflict resolution, they actually specialize in conflict escalation. It's how they make their living. And the courts are the same. Once you step through those doors you are into a whole new ball game and the stakes are infinitely higher, both financially and emotionally. There are no winners in court, and there is not much peace to be found in going through that process.

          If you can live with a compromise, even if you dislike it, it's probably worth doing. It's to the point now where my ex and I only have disagreements once or twice a year. Relatively peaceful.

          Comment


          • #6
            Forget about the minutia. Narrow down the issues to 2 or 3 non-negotiables. Focus on those.

            You keep going .. The pace is slow and steady, there's no fast track for this. Stay the course, focused on the non-negotiables.

            It won't last forever, but it feels like it will sometimes. The system expects people to give up. Don't.

            In all of this: remember not to lose yourself. Get out for walks, go for a drive, get to a gym, read a good book.. Anything that gives you some little bit of time to yourself and allows you to escape temporarily.

            Remove any clutter from your life. Old clothes, toys, whatever. It will help someone else (donation) and clear up some physical space around you. Organize your paperwork, have a friend come over to help you if that will make it easier. All of these things will make it easier for you to think and focus on what's important.

            I too have felt that I didn't have the emotional wherewithall (sp?) _ to get through the many hurdles I've had. Initially, I was very high strung. We need to remind ourselves to "CTFD" (calm the f*ck down ) and realize that change doesn't happen overnight, and there's only certain things we have control over.

            I hope that all made sense. Good Luck.

            Comment


            • #7
              Agree with Hadenough. Focus on the important things and fight for what you and your children are entitled for. Sure it takes a while but if you don't do it no one else will and you will go through life feeling resentful and it will dribble over onto your kids.

              Give your lawyer a kick in the butt and tell him to go after costs.

              Comment


              • #8
                I think if your are familiar with the court system, why not file a motion and fight the case in your own? Usually the sp7 expenses are based on income. The extracuticular activities, you can't force him to take the kids to them. Not something you should spend money on in court, but of you are going to be self represented, might as well try it. Communication, document everything via email our even a registeref letter and you can most definitely get this solved in court.

                If you have the mental strength, fight your own case. There are many free lawyers st the court house/duty counsels who can guide you.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                  Ha. Ex wants 50% share of extraordinary expenses. (LOTS (lots) of orthodontics to come.) My lawyer thinks we should insist on proportionate to our income. (a 8% difference). I am undecided.
                  8% is a fraction of costs of paying your lawyer to argue this. It is only worthwhile if you believe your incomes will have a far greater spread in the future.

                  b. Ex refuses to pay or participate in any extracurricular activities. No cooperation. (My lawyer thinks we can talk some sense into him. LOL) I would gladly pay for all future activities, if he would only drive them there on his week.
                  Are you gladly willing to pay your lawyer $400 an hour to try to nag your ex into taking the kids to activities? If you could "talk sense" to your ex, you very likely wouldn't be divorcing. You cannot force him to take the kids anywhere and you cannot get a court order to make him parent in a certain way.

                  Over time, if the kids genuinely enjoy the activities they will encourage him to take them. Otherwise it is not in your control. Your lawyer seems to be trying to encourage you to pay them to do more and more.

                  c. stalling and trying to prevent dental and health care. (OK, I have a case for health care. Do the same rules apply for dental care?)
                  What is the legal custody situation? If the children need dental care, take them. If the father disputes the necessity, require a professional diagnosis.

                  If the ex doesn't co-operate, you save the bills for a year, file a motion to have child support and section 7 expenses updated, and get a court order for payment. As long as your lawyer isn't dragging things out and trying to play marriage counsellor, a motion order for expenses should be a simple one page and your ex doesn't have a case to dispute it.

                  The downside is that you may have to absorb the expenses for a year so that you can show a signifcant amount and a pattern of behaviour. Meaning, you don't to court monthly for a few hundred dollars at a time. But do not pay your lawyer hundreds of dollars every month to argue with your ex.

                  d. won`t let me communicate regularly with kids during his week (I used to call once a week; now he won`t answer or return calls.)
                  If the children are young, perhaps week on/ week off is too great a gap. Consider something like 2/2/3. Otherwise, let them call you. Without mentioning your ex, just ask them to give you a call during the week when you don't see them.

                  e. ex lies to me, to the kids about me, to the school on important matters.
                  Does your lawyer think you can get a court order to make your ex a better person? You can't control his behaviour. If you get a LOT of evidence you can challenge the custody level. You can't get a court order to make him stop lieing.

                  f. does not comply with our separation agreement about the beneficiary of his life insurance. (I will fight this one.)
                  Yes, draw a line in the sand. He provides proof of the insurance policy or seek a court order for it. But don't have your lawyer send letters about it for the next 6 months.

                  g. has undisclosed income. (I`m keeping that ace in my hand for now.)
                  Unless you have copies of bank statements or you have photos of him receiving suitcases full of cash, you have nothing. You will spend tens of thousands of dollars fighting something you can't prove.

                  Background info : CS is offset of our income. Ex doesn`t pay a dime in anything other than CS.
                  Based on an 8% it probably isn't very much CS. Is the ex providing fully for the children when they are with him? Or do you send suitcases full of clothes every week?

                  Ex has tendency to provoke conflict (or so I feel) and to push the limits. I am of the opinion that I need to fight even the little battles, or he will step all over me, as he has before.
                  There is no need to talk to your ex. Limit yourself to one business-like email with factual details of any pertinent events the kids have on the day you send them back. Make exchanges by one parent dropping off at school and the other picking up that afternoon. There should be no reason to meet him or speak on the phone unless you are on the way to the emergency room.

                  I am undecided between calling it quits, paying for everything and hoping I`ll have peace and quiet OR pushing forward, because I am afraid the conflicts won`t really stop even if I opt for the previous option.
                  Don't engage in conflict.

                  Do you have a separation agreement, or are you still negotiating? The standard according to the Family Law Act is set-off child support and proportionate split of section 7 expenses (NOTE: these are not EVERY expense, and you are not clear about what you are paying "all" of.) Make a simple statement that this is what you will sign going forward.

                  Have you had any court action so far? If not, then if there were me I would do the following: Do not agree to a separation agreement that does not adhere to the Family Law Act. Do not continue negotiating; have your offer on the table. Pay legitimate section 7 expenses in full, and detail the amount and send it to the ex. When the total reaches a significant amount, file with the courts for payment. Do not waste money on back-and-forth between lawyers in the meantime. What you spent on lawyers can go to the children's expenses for now. Take legal action when you have built up enough reason to justify it. Stop having conversations with your ex in the meantime.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Settlement conference?

                    Thank you all for your answers. They were all very helpful.

                    We will probably attend a settlement conference at the end of the month. I have never attended court, very newbie. Can someone tell me what to expect, how does it play out, how much I can expect to pay? How formal is this conference? Will I have the opportunity to show exchange of negociation letters and of emails, (to show that I am bending over backwards to offer solutions and suggestions the ex only has to choose which option suits him best), is this where I show my tons of receipts? Will there be opportunity for conversation and negotiation? Is this where we can explore various solutions?

                    Here is my latest, and probably final offer :

                    1. Orthodontics : I will get extra insurance during the years of treatment to help with the costs. (I will pretty much be breaking even with or without the insurance; this will only help the ex in regards to his shared proportion to pay). The remaining balance shall be split according to income. I must insist on the proportionate share as I have had cancer and my future situation is unsure (I might need to take time off my job for medical treatment) I am also offering my ex to get another opinion from another orthodontic (shared costs).


                    2. sharing of other S7 expenses. I will pay the entire costs of extracurricular activities (over 2000$ per year). ON THE CONDITION that he lets the kids participate in such activities. I was gonna give up this issue, but my son is personnally asking me to "convince" dad to participate or let him go to activities during his week. I am offering several solutions, one being that I will drive the kids myself during his week.

                    Will a judge even care that I am doing everything I can to come to a resolution? That I am offering several options and solutions; my ex only has to choose? In your experience, are judges usually reasonnable, or am I taking a total gamble?

                    Thanks again !

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Without really knowing anything about your situation, #1 above looks reasonable to me, but #2 looks like you're setting yourself up for lots of aggravating and fruitless arguing with your ex. If he doesn't want to take them (or let you take them during his time), he won't, no matter what you've paid for the activity or what he's agreed to do. (I've been down this road). And if he gets his back up and decides that he's not going to let you tell him what to do on his time because it's HIS TIME, dammit!, then it becomes a huge battle which you can't win. Perhaps you can speak to the kids' coaches/instructors and let them know the situation, and ask if they will accept that your kids' attendance may be spotty. Emphasize that this doesn't reflect in any way on your kids' enthusiasm for the activity. I found my daughter's coaches were quite sympathetic and not the least bit surprised. They've seen it all before. (Of course, she's not a elite athlete or anything - just a kid doing recreational activities).

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I'd keep going as well, and wouldn't cave on the financials - particularly the S7 expenses.

                        I thought I was being helpful in waiving significant CS and all S7 for the last 15 years to keep the peace. You don't get a ribbon for waiving table amounts, and at the end of the day, your children are losing out.
                        Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Suzie View Post

                          a. Ex wants 50% share of extraordinary expenses. (LOTS (lots) of orthodontics to come.) My lawyer thinks we should insist on proportionate to our income. (a 8% difference). I am undecided.

                          As others have already mentioned, an 8% difference seems pretty small, to spend lawyer dollars fighting over. If you think the respective incomes will vary a lot, over the next few years, then perhaps "proportional" would be good then. If not, I wouldn't fight over it.

                          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                          b. Ex refuses to pay or participate in any extracurricular activities. No cooperation. (My lawyer thinks we can talk some sense into him. LOL) I would gladly pay for all future activities, if he would only drive them there on his week.
                          Is your ex given any chance for input in making these decisions (activities and costs)? Ex. Do you give advance notice, with some options, that you both can agree on, and he simply refuses to participate in any dicussion?

                          Does he offer any selections himself, or say what he prefers.

                          Or does he get sent a schedule and "bill for his share" after the choice has been made?

                          That would help describe what is happening here. It's hard to have kids' extra-curricular activities, that only fall on one parent's time, just by the nature of scheduling, so cooperation is needed here. Something that might help, is to agree on only having 1 or 2 activities during a timeframe (season?), so that each parent's time isn't too booked up with activities. And it sounds like you have more than one child.

                          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                          c. stalling and trying to prevent dental and health care. (OK, I have a case for health care. Do the same rules apply for dental care?)
                          It would be in the childrens' best interests to have them covered under each parent's health/dental benefits. Perhaps word it, that each parent will have the child covered, if they are employed? Are you currently employed? Do you have benefits as well? Why wait for the other parent? *both* parents should be taking care of this. If he has coverage available through his employment as well, that would be a "no-brainer" for him to be required to have them covered too, in court.

                          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                          d. won`t let me communicate regularly with kids during his week (I used to call once a week; now he won`t answer or return calls.)
                          How old are your children?
                          You could likely introduce a `set time` or window, that each parent will have available, to make calls to the other household, to speak to the kids.

                          Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                          e. ex lies to me, to the kids about me, to the school on important matters.
                          You likely need to ignore most of that. What kind of "lies" are we talking about here? You would have to have "proof", in order to have any movement there, in court. Will the ex claim the same about you? You need "proof", and usually, it's best to ignore this, unless the lies are particularly damaging, where it comes to the kids.

                          Originally posted by Suzie View Post

                          f. does not comply with our separation agreement about the beneficiary of his life insurance. (I will fight this one.)
                          If you already have this in an agreement, it should be particularly easy, to have this enforced then. I would assume you have the same arrangement on your life insurance, for him? (presumably, so that kids are taken care of in future?)

                          Originally posted by Suzie View Post

                          g. has undisclosed income. (I`m keeping that ace in my hand for now.)
                          You need to provide proof. Do you have proof? Because I think if you did, you would already be using that, if the other parent is not being truthful about income?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                            a. Ex wants 50% share of extraordinary expenses. (LOTS (lots) of orthodontics to come.) My lawyer thinks we should insist on proportionate to our income. (a 8% difference). I am undecided.
                            This is one I would fight. Incomes change over time. I'd rather have one fight now, even if the amount seems small, than a future full of fights every time someone's income changes.

                            Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                            b. Ex refuses to pay or participate in any extracurricular activities. No cooperation. (My lawyer thinks we can talk some sense into him. LOL) I would gladly pay for all future activities, if he would only drive them there on his week.
                            This is one I would fight too, but sensibly. Kids do extracurricular activities. Depending on the price, they might be covered by CS, or they might be section 7 expenses. If you sign a kid up for soccer for the summer, that's not too expensive and falls under CS. Whether or not the dad takes the kid is up to him though. If he refuses to do anything with the kid, this will come back to haunt him later when the kid can refuse to go to dad's place because of missing activities. If you are signing the kid of for expensive competitive hockey, that would be a section 7 expense that you should discuss ahead of time with the ex. If the ex says no, you can decide from then what to do. Pay anyway and face the kid missing half the activity, or not do it at all.

                            Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                            c. stalling and trying to prevent dental and health care. (OK, I have a case for health care. Do the same rules apply for dental care?)
                            This is pretty serious. What kind of prevention are we talking about? If the dad is endangering the kid's health, then yes, this is something you want to fight for.

                            Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                            d. won`t let me communicate regularly with kids during his week (I used to call once a week; now he won`t answer or return calls.)
                            Not much you can do here. If the kids ask why you didn't call, tell them you did but must have missed them. Assure them that they can call you anytime they like, and make sure they know your number.

                            Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                            e. ex lies to me, to the kids about me, to the school on important matters.
                            This comes down to documented proof. What kind of lies is he telling? Can you prove it? Is he alienating you from your kids and preventing your participation in school activities?

                            Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                            f. does not comply with our separation agreement about the beneficiary of his life insurance. (I will fight this one.)
                            How do you know he's not complying? If it's in the agreement, you can ask for proof he's doing so. If he doesn't provide it, I'm not sure what you would do.

                            Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                            g. has undisclosed income. (I`m keeping that ace in my hand for now.)
                            Proving undisclosed income is a terribly hard thing to do. You might think of it as an ace, but most likely it's more trouble than it's worth.


                            Originally posted by Suzie View Post
                            Background info : CS is offset of our income. Ex doesn`t pay a dime in anything other than CS.

                            Ex has tendency to provoke conflict (or so I feel) and to push the limits. I am of the opinion that I need to fight even the little battles, or he will step all over me, as he has before.

                            I am undecided between calling it quits, paying for everything and hoping I`ll have peace and quiet OR pushing forward, because I am afraid the conflicts won`t really stop even if I opt for the previous option.
                            I bet he wants to keep you overwhelmed by the little battles so that you miss the one he considers big. You decide on your line in the sand, and stand firm on that. Fighting over every little thing will drive you bonkers and play into his game.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Rioe View Post
                              I bet he wants to keep you overwhelmed by the little battles so that you miss the one he considers big. You decide on your line in the sand, and stand firm on that. Fighting over every little thing will drive you bonkers and play into his game.
                              This MUST be the most insightful thing I've ever read on this website.

                              Comment

                              Our Divorce Forums
                              Forums dedicated to helping people all across Canada get through the separation and divorce process, with discussions about legal issues, parenting issues, financial issues and more.
                              Working...
                              X