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  • Summer Access

    I have a question regarding summer access. Our current court order which we are following until we go back to court says teh following

    1. Week 1 - Sunday noon - Monday noon and Week 2 Sunday noon - Wednesday - noon for his time with his father.

    2. Summer access, in the year 2007 and beyond is to be 2 weeks of access with 45 days notice.

    Does this mean he gets his regular access + 2 weeks? or he only gets two weeks, the order isn't very clear and each of our lawyers see it different ways.

    I have sole custody, and by him saying he gets his regular access plus 2 weeks it actually gives him more time with our son in the summer then I get. This is in the process of being change, but we have 3 weeks left of summer and it wont be changed before then.

    There is unfortunately no level of trust or understanding between us that we could possibly sort this out on our own.

  • #2
    I can see it being on top allowing your ex some vacation time. However, without the exact wording it is hard to say. But I would lean to it being on top solely based off of the notion that the courts would allow each parent vacation time in the summer.

    And since you get substantially more time throughout the school year, I can't see why you would be concerned with getting nominally less in the summer. It doesn't affect CS because CS is based off of the proportion of time over the year.

    Edit - Also, another reason why I see it as an addition is I can't see a court reducing his parenting time over the summer holidays to an aggregate of 2 weeks. That would be a decrease from even his normal schedule if you figure between the 2 week schedule he gets 4 overnights, or 8 a month (minimum) and 16 over a summer. 2 weeks is less then that.

    Another edit - I can't see a judge seeing it in the child's best interests to go from weekly parenting time to 2 weeks in aggregate.
    Last edited by HammerDad; 08-15-2011, 03:49 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      it actually gives us no time at all for a vacation, which is what has started all of this as he will not give up one of his days so we can go on a trip.

      What he does, is he takes 2 x weeks of access, he takes his Sunday - Wed access, then starts his week Wednesday giving him until the following Wednesday. Then continues on with his regular access. This means we never have a week straight of access all summer.

      We originally just wanted for him to give us his Sunday-Monday access so we could go on a trip. We even offered to make up his day that he would lose at another time but he refuses. At this point our lawyer said while the court order does not say he is entitled to both and it should be treated as such that the holiday access would take precedent over regular access. For example, labor day is our holiday, but his regular access falls on labor day, the holiday overrides the reg access and we get that day.

      In the new court order, that we are trying to settle right now I have offered him to split the summer holiday, week here, week there. I am not trying to keep him from him, but we want to go on a holiday too and have been trying now for a month to get this sorted out.

      Comment


      • #4
        Unfortunately, that wording does not contemplate vacation time for you. Actually, to be honest, my agreement doesn't provide for vacation time for my ex either, just me. Your situation is very similar to mine, in that my ex has custody of our daughter and I get EOW and a midweek evening. But I also get 2 weeks (non-consecutive) in the summer.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
          Edit - Also, another reason why I see it as an addition is I can't see a court reducing his parenting time over the summer holidays to an aggregate of 2 weeks. That would be a decrease from even his normal schedule if you figure between the 2 week schedule he gets 4 overnights, or 8 a month (minimum) and 16 over a summer. 2 weeks is less then that.

          Another edit - I can't see a judge seeing it in the child's best interests to go from weekly parenting time to 2 weeks in aggregate.
          It does not specify how he is to take his 2 weeks, just that he gets 2 weeks. He could take it all once, split it up to one night a time, any combination that he wants. We have always just split it up to 2 x 1 week of access in the past. Now this year he is doing everything he can to manipulate it to get more time.

          His first week, he did his Sun-Wed access, wednesday was then a special occasion as it was his mothers birthday so that didn't count, so then his week started thursday-thursday. Since his day started at midnight he didnt have to have him home until Thursday at midnight, but since that's to late for him he would bring him home Friday morning... and then Sunday-wed would be his regular access again... and all of this is done after he picks him up, he says he will start his week access on Sunday then emails me these new details... and there is nothing I can do at that point.

          Comment


          • #6
            Unfortunately for you, your orders are unclear thus it is causing you headaches. I personally cannot see how a judge would reduce him to two weeks in aggregate over the summer when it is pretty standard, for even EOW parents, to get their scheduled parenting time and additionally vacation time.

            As for his mom's birthday, unless the order provides that he shall have the kids on his mom's birthday (which I really doubt) he isn't entitled to that day UNLESS you agree to giving it to him. He could use one of his 2 weeks for that day, extending his parenting time until noon on Thursday (which would follow the logic of your current wording).

            To be honest, I also do everything I can to make it so I get my D6 for as long a period as possible. Because I get 2 non-consecutive weeks, I generally try to stick my weeks in periods where I get a long weekend as well. Like in the beginning of August, had the Civic Holiday (I get every other long weekend). That would have been her weekend. I took the long weekend (as I was entitled to it), then the Mon-Fri which lead right into my scheduled weekend.....giving me 10 days while only needing 4 vacation days from work and my 1 week from my ex.

            It is pretty normal to try and maximize the time and find loopholes to do so.

            Comment


            • #7
              I get what your saying, but the thing is he does not tell me until after. The court order entitles us each to special occasions. So he took his sun-wed noon reg time, then he took the rest of wednesday as a special occasion, then he started his 7 days on Thursday, giving him 11 days straight. My main issue with it was that he didn't tell me before hand, it was a surprise after he picked him up and there is nothing I could do about it then but record it for court.

              My lawyer is basically saying to take advantage of the weak court order to deny him access for the remainder of the summer as he would have already used up his 14 days and then at the next court date in october get it sorted out. I either have to do this, or not take my son on family vacation. All that I wanted was for him to change his one sun-mon access and add it on to his next access. I don't want to keep him from or fight constantly but he bullies me until I have no choice but to stand up. What would you do in this situation?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by tennyis View Post
                ...

                My lawyer is basically saying to take advantage of the weak court order to deny him access for the remainder of the summer as he would have already used up his 14 days and then at the next court date in october get it sorted out. I either have to do this, or not take my son on family vacation. All that I wanted was for him to change his one sun-mon access and add it on to his next access. I don't want to keep him from or fight constantly but he bullies me until I have no choice but to stand up. What would you do in this situation?
                First, your ex is being an ass in that he should work with you in advance to figure out the summer schedule. Also, he should allow for continuous time with you so you can go on vacation with the son - that is the fair thing to do.

                But your lawyer is suggesting that you intentionally misinterpret the agreement you have (and you are tending to play the part by pretending to not know the agreement is OBVIOUSLY for 2 weeks in addition to the regular schedule time).

                You have more time with your son than your ex during the year and your ex is follow the agreement. The only thing you can do is to come to a NEW agreement that specifies how the schedule is to be done (and I don't mean how to negotiate the schedule, but to specifically lay out the way access can be done such that you are both satisfied).

                Perhaps if you explain to your ex that his son is missing out on vacation (with you) he may be more flexible. Don't expect it this summer - people hate to be told what to do, so you just have to plant the seed, and work on a new agreement. You say your ex is bullying, but you are suggesting that unless you get your way, and are able to take your son on vacation, you will ignore the agreement, and deny access - to me that makes you the bully.

                Your ex is being difficult, your lawyer is suggesting you be dishonest. You can't have it your way, you have an agreement to live by.

                Comment


                • #9
                  no my lawyer is suggesting that that IS the way the order is and that we have not been following it properly. The exact wording is "3. In the year 2007 and beyond, the respondent shall be entitled to 2 weeks of access during the summer break"


                  What I am saying is that I don't want that to be the order, I don't feel it is enough time for him to spend with his father. But I can't just make up a new order... that either is the order or it isn't. If it is the order then my son goes a month without seeing his Dad, which I do not feel is good for him. But I cant say hey that's not the order for your access day when we are gone, but it is the rest of the time. I am perfectly fine with him h aving 2 weeks plus his regular access.

                  If its not the order and he's supposed to get his 2 weeks of access plus regular time then he does not come with us to the Bahamas. My ex has known about this trip for 6 months, and we finalized the dates 3 months ago. But he has never actually agreed to anything, would just keep saying "shouldn't be a problem" or something similar.

                  The ex will never agree to anything that I want, he only wants to feel like he has won and that would be for us to not take a vacation as a family.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I still think you (and your lawyer) are intentionally misinterpreting the meaning of the 2 week access in the agreement. Please spare me the innocent look!

                    Either way, if the agreement does not state WHEN or HOW he is to exercise his 2 weeks (in addition to his normal schedule), that means that you both have to agree, and if you can't agree, then I don't see how it is your problem to only go by what your ex says for when the access is to take place.

                    By this I mean that 'denying access' would be reasonable if you wanted to go away on vacation, given that you have done your best to tell your ex in advance etc - your ex should have accommodated it, you are not going against the agreement in that you have been reasonable in trying to offer the access, so in that case, just take him on the trip, using whatever means necessary that don't cause harm to your son.

                    Also, I would think the '2 weeks access' is not in addition to scheduled time, but rather, overlapped over the normal schedule, meaning the purpose is simply to be able to go away on a vacation that is longer than continuous scheduled time.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      So if you feel the order should be worded more specifically in a way that benefits him and the child then why not make an offer to amend the order as such since you seem to agree it's in the best interest of the child? If he turns it down simply because it was proposed by you then it would seem as if he's cutting off his nose to spite his face.

                      If he says the trip shouldn't be a problem then I'm not sure why you're questioning it. It seems this is just now becoming an issue since it potentially interferes with your travel plans and your trip is coming up soon. You should have sorted out the details a whole lot sooner to avoid trying to find loopholes that benefit you at this point.

                      Your lawyer's advice to deny him access based on something you agree isn't in the best interest of your child is asinine.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        He found a way to make his first week of access last 11 days, he does not overlap anything and I have always just given in to him in the past so that he wont take me back to court.

                        either way he's used up those 2 weeks, it is his regular access of sunday-monday that interferes with the trip we have planned. The issue is if he is entitled to his regular access or not, our lawyer says that he is not and never has been entitled to it. There is absolutely no court order or mention in any of the court orders (he's taken me to court 9 times in 5 years, and we are currently on number 10) that he has regular access in addition to summer access.

                        I guess I'm just trying to find a way that I can get him to come with us on the trip without having to say you can't see your Dad for a month because of a court order... which I do not feel comfortable with doing. I even tried offering him the entire labour day weekend in exchange for the sun-mon reg access he has the week before and his response was "no" and that was it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Why don't you simply let him know that the ball is in his court. He agrees in writing to allow the child to be home in time for the trip or you will withold access as he has had two weeks+.

                          I do think the order means two weeks vacation, in addition to access. However, I cannot see the court finding your request/action unreasonable if you have documentation of your requests for compromise.

                          Good Luck getting the order straightened out!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            it's to late now to change the court order and still be able to go on our trip. We have a court date set, that I will get this issue included in now for future summers.

                            What he did was lead me to believe that he had every intention of working this out with me. He signed the form for him to leave the country, etc. Then when it came time to find an alternate date for him to take, absolutely nothing has worked. i went through my emails and I have given him 14 different dates for him to make up his last access and he hasn't accepted a single one of them. He emailed me today and said "does not look like he can go, you havn't given me a suitable date to make up my lost time, sorry"

                            What my lawyer is saying, is your only choice is to go by exactly what the court order states. It is not ok to assume something in the court order that isn't there, that you do not assume that a judge wouldn't give him only 2 weeks. You do not question the judges order, you simply abide by it. The judges order is 2 weeks of access during summer break.

                            It's really just a no win situation... I think i am going to have to just not take him on the cruise and he can stay with my Mom... which isn't in the best interest of my son either... but neither is keeping him from his Dad for a month even if a court order says its ok.

                            Originally posted by blinkandimgone View Post
                            So if you feel the order should be worded more specifically in a way that benefits him and the child then why not make an offer to amend the order as such since you seem to agree it's in the best interest of the child? If he turns it down simply because it was proposed by you then it would seem as if he's cutting off his nose to spite his face.

                            If he says the trip shouldn't be a problem then I'm not sure why you're questioning it. It seems this is just now becoming an issue since it potentially interferes with your travel plans and your trip is coming up soon. You should have sorted out the details a whole lot sooner to avoid trying to find loopholes that benefit you at this point.

                            Your lawyer's advice to deny him access based on something you agree isn't in the best interest of your child is asinine.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by momof6 View Post
                              Why don't you simply let him know that the ball is in his court. He agrees in writing to allow the child to be home in time for the trip or you will withold access as he has had two weeks+.

                              I do think the order means two weeks vacation, in addition to access. However, I cannot see the court finding your request/action unreasonable if you have documentation of your requests for compromise.

                              Good Luck getting the order straightened out!!
                              because then I'm saying if you agree with my vacation plans then the court order means this, and if you don't agree then it means that... I can't have it both ways.

                              Comment

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