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  • Conflict when dropping off children escalates further

    I've posted about having problems with dropping off our children for access sometime ago and some of you might be familiar with some of the challenges that I have had in this.

    Well, the situation was escalated to an even higher level of conflict this evening.

    I arrived with the children to drop off the children. As per regular practice we pull into the drive way and honked the horn to let the grandparents know that we are here and that one of them should come out and escort the children to the home. (This has been the practice for the past two years with the exception of the last two months when they were on vacation)

    Anyway, no one comes out and I call the home only to find my ex answering the phone. He informs me that HE will be coming out to escort the children. Not wanting to be subjected to any verbal abuse, I insist his parents should come out. Last week his father had come out to help. The drop off took no more then three minutes and it was easier on the children because they do not have to witness any yelling by dad. The grandfather is just happy to see the kids and focus is on them, as it should be.

    Anyway, not wanting to get involved in any confrontation this evening, I pull out of the drive way and onto the road. EX runs out and plants himself in front of the vehicle, refusing to let me drive. Grandfather comes out to assist but is told by my ex to return to the house and not answer the phone. I ask the ex if I can simply pull up at the front of the house, and have the children walk up the steps, without me leaving the vehicle. He refuses to consider this, and insists that I need to pull up back in the drive way and hand him the children personally.

    The standoff continues with the children witnessing all this. Ex calls the police and an hour later they arrive. The police arrive and want to talk to me first. Ex gets really pissed off with them, and starts yelling "well, it was me who called you, not her."

    Anyway the long and short of it was the children were dropped off. I was allowed to leave immediately, but encouraged to get a court order that actually spells out the need for a third party so that we can avoid this situation in the future.

    Back in court on June 10th for a trial management conference. My question is this, should I return to court asap for an emergency motion on the necessity of a third party for exchanges or should I wait until June 10th? What can I do in the meantime? I've suggested just about everything to the ex including picking the children up from the daycare so I am not involved at all, and more recently, that a third party, namely his mother who acted as third party for the past two years should continue. But we've had no response to either proposal.

  • #2
    What an incredibly stupid situation!!! Scenes in front of the neighbours? Police involvement and hour long waits for them to arrive?

    Why don't you just drop the children while in the driveway, watch them go into the house and drive off?

    How in heaven's name are you allowing yourself to be engaged in this absolute circus act?

    I don't give a rat's ass who's fault this is. For the two of you to be subjecting your children to this level of conflict is beyond the pale!
    Last edited by dadtotheend; 03-25-2010, 10:04 PM.

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    • #3
      The walk from the drive way to the front door is a long way for a three year old and five year old to walk unaccompanied by themselves. The transition from one home to another is difficult as it is without the kids being left on the driveway. They cope better when they have the grandparents greet them and walk them up to the house.

      But you are right what I stupid situation and I walked right into this one.

      Looking back with hindsight, it would have been better to simply walk the children to the front door, drop the backpacks on the street and then run the heck out of there before I was screamed and yelled at by the ex. I've tried this before and EX is pretty fast. The last time he left the children standing at the front door and got to my vehicle before I did.

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      • #4
        The walk from the driveway to the front door is too long? Uh, OK.

        Then get someone else to drop them off for you, and don't say that it will be upsetting for the children not to have you drop them. Your presence, rightly or wrongly is causing him to blow.

        Your kids need you to do whatever it takes to avoid this unbelievably bad behaviour. Your kids are being torn apart right now, guaranteed.

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        • #5
          You, are absolutely right. I will do whatever it takes to avoid this situation in the future.

          The only challenge with asking someone else to drop them off for me is this:
          We live about an hour from him and have to drive through rush hour traffic in the evening, so a round trip can be three hours in total. With access twice a week, asking someone to be available twice a week, every week is a lot to ask. I do not have any family in this country to rely on. I have some friends from work but they do not live too close.

          But I will continue to find a solution ASAP. I've done my best to protect the children. In some instances I have succeeded and on other occasions (like today) - failed badly.

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          • #6
            Some other options could be:

            - his parents could meet you halfway or somewhere close by to pick up/drop off
            - could you meet at a public place where he would be less likely to cause a scene? library, restaurant or something
            - perhaps you could hire someone to meet you with the kids and have that person drop them at his place?

            Comment


            • #7
              Meeting at a public place unfortunately does not inhibit him from causing a scene. We've tried everything from a shopping mall, to the local grocery store and the police station. In each and every occasion, there has been a scene or worse police involvement in each and every case.

              He is clearly not happy with having his parents involved. I could appeal to them but I'm not sure if that will produce any results given that he has threatened them with moving away, hence they can not see the grandchildren. Which wouldn't be the case, because I would still take the children over.

              I would love to "hire" someone to meet me with the children and for them to drop the children off. But, given that I am in debt for current legal fees and EX has stopped paying Child Support and Spousal support, finances are somewhat tight now.

              I have looked into a exchange family centre but you need consent from both parties to register with one. When proposed in the past, he rejected the idea.

              The only temporary option is the daycare. Given that Ex is currently on a elected leave of unpaid absence he should have the time to pick them from the daycare directly.

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              • #8
                If you have no fear of violence. I suggest you just don't say anything if its him exchanging. Very difficult to do, but its also hard to yell at someone who's not taking the bait and speaking back.

                This is what I've been reduced to when picking up my son. I simply don't open my mouth. At all. I let whatever condenscing remarks she makes go, and smile

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nadia View Post
                  Given that Ex is currently on a elected leave of unpaid absence he should have the time to pick them from the daycare directly.
                  This is part of the problem?
                  Instead of concerning yourself what you feel he should do, and getting upset about it, just concern yourself with what he will do and work with that.

                  Hang in there. It gets easier as times passes, and bruised ego's heal.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dadtotheend View Post
                    What an incredibly stupid situation!!! Scenes in front of the neighbours? Police involvement and hour long waits for them to arrive?

                    Why don't you just drop the children while in the driveway, watch them go into the house and drive off?

                    How in heaven's name are you allowing yourself to be engaged in this absolute circus act?

                    I don't give a rat's ass who's fault this is. For the two of you to be subjecting your children to this level of conflict is beyond the pale!
                    I totally agree. Exactly how far do the kids have to walk?? Get the kids out of the car then honk the horn. Then send them on their way and he can meet them on the way to the door.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by wretchedotis View Post
                      If you have no fear of violence. I suggest you just don't say anything if its him exchanging. Very difficult to do, but its also hard to yell at someone who's not taking the bait and speaking back.

                      This is what I've been reduced to when picking up my son. I simply don't open my mouth. At all. I let whatever condenscing remarks she makes go, and smile
                      great advice. It takes two to argue and escalate a situation.

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                      • #12
                        Thank you Wretchedotis,

                        Some good advice here. I actually don't mind the condescending comments and in the past had adapted the strategy of no response. But unfortunately, my lack of response only served to anger him further, whereby when he got no response, he repeated what he saying in a louder voice and ultimately started yelling at me in front of the children.

                        But you are absolutely right when you write "Instead of concerning yourself what you feel he should do, and getting upset about it, just concern yourself with what he will do and work with that."

                        I'm going to have to find another solution for this.

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                        • #13
                          I think both of you are just being difficult and want to control everything according to your wishes. This kind of behaviour is childish and only shows that you two can't compromise even for couple of minutes for the sake of children. Save the money that you will spend on emergency motion and use it for some counselling or parenting courses.

                          What I do (whenever I voluntarily agree to drop off my son to his mom) is to take him to her door. I step back after knocking and leave as soon as my son enters the door. I do the same thing when I pick him back (knock and step back). There were times when it took her forever to open the door so I told her let's go back to court order which say transportation is her responsibility. Now a days, we have agreed to do the exchange at a public place - I bring him there from home and she takes him from there. I always make sure I keep a safe distance from her as friends have warned me about false allegations. At the end of exchange she drops him at home. My preferred method of communication is email although occasionally we do end up talking over the phone. And, when that happens my conversation is to the point and business like and I always ask for an email confirmation or send an email to confirm what was agreed upon over the phone.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by standing on the sidelines View Post
                            great advice. It takes two to argue and escalate a situation.
                            I agree. Pickup and dropoff times, with the kids present, are not times to argue and escalate. You are damaging your kids by getting into it with him.

                            I used to do the same. But now when I pick up my kids, I get out of my car, go and politely knock on the door, go back to my car and wait. Keep my mouth shut at all times.

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                            • #15
                              By the sound of it, he follows her back to the car if she ignores him. Her very presence causes him to escalate.

                              Nadia:

                              If you have a lawyer, have him draft a letter to the ex/ex's lawyer indicating that as your ex has issues with controlling himself in front of the children, that you will no longer be transporting them to his parent's house, given the fact that the police had to be involved the last time. (Personally I would have driven away the second he came outside, if he's going to upset the existing status quo of having his father escort the children, then to hell with him)

                              Give him the choice of either having a 3rd party do the exchanges (ie. the drop off center like you suggested, which for now sounds like your best option)...or having him pick the children up at the daycare. Give him a set period of time to respond and indicate you will not be taking any movement with respect to transportation for the children until his decision has been provided to you. If he chooses the drop off center, then make sure he's actually registered at it before you renew access.

                              Make it very clear that you aren't withholding access, merely that you fear for your safety given his recent actions and fear that it will escalate. You aren't willing to place yourself or the children at risk.

                              I've been there and done that already. As long as you are trying to be reasonable about him seeing the children (and by the sound of things you are) then offering a viable alternative to the constant series of conflict you seem to have, you come out as the reasonable, responsible, child focuses parent, and he'll get swatted by the judge when it comes to court.

                              Comment

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