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Court Order vs. Separation Agreement (Certified)

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  • Court Order vs. Separation Agreement (Certified)

    I have a Separation Agreement signed and certified (disclosure and independant counsel), which is filed with the court, stating my ex and I have joint custody and a shared access schedule with our son.

    Does this act as a court order?

    Example: If a year from now, my ex and I have a dispute over a legal decision regarding our son, or an access issue, can the other parent use this document as evidence to a school, doctor or police?

    My understanding is a court order is required for any authority to step in and assist (I'm not referring to abuse of any kind).

    Can someone clarify if a court order would still be needed, or would we already have the documentation we need?

  • #2
    The agreement is not a court order but it is still enforceable and can be used as documentation and evidence for all purposes.

    In my case, the separation agreement became "minutes of settlement" before trial. These minutes were then converted verbatim into the final Divorce Order. So essentially the separation agreement became a consent order at that point.

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    • #3
      So, by 'enforceable' you mean that we wouldn't have to get a court order in the event an incident happened?

      My concern is avoiding what just happened to a friend. They had a separation agreement, but not certified and filed. They came to an agreement and documented it. A while later, her ex-hubby moved the child to another school without her consent AND kept him from her during her scheduled weekend. The police were called, and since they didn't have a court order, they could do nothing but ensure the child appeared healthy and cared for. Same story for the schools involved... court order needed.

      If they had a certified separation agreement filed with the court and could present it, the police would recognize it and enforce it?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
        So, by 'enforceable' you mean that we wouldn't have to get a court order in the event an incident happened?

        My concern is avoiding what just happened to a friend. They had a separation agreement, but not certified and filed. They came to an agreement and documented it. A while later, her ex-hubby moved the child to another school without her consent AND kept him from her during her scheduled weekend. The police were called, and since they didn't have a court order, they could do nothing but ensure the child appeared healthy and cared for. Same story for the schools involved... court order needed.

        If they had a certified separation agreement filed with the court and could present it, the police would recognize it and enforce it?
        In this situation just court order will not help you. You need court order with police enforcement clause which are not easy to get as courts consider this not good for kids to have police involved.

        As for separation agreement from what I know filled with court separation agreement as good as court order. I do not have a lot of info on agreement part...

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        • #5
          If it has a court number assigned, your agreement is equal to a court order with the ability to file further motions using the court number.

          All remedies now are the same as if it were a court order.

          My agreement is filed with the court.

          Your friend also has the same remedies, but would first have to file it with the courts.

          And the cops are morons when it comes to family law matters. They generally just don't want to get involved in what they feel are domestic disputes...with or without a court order.

          And I agree with WorkingDad, unless said agreement or court order provides for police enforcement/involvement, they are under no obligation to get involved (unless there is legitimate fear of the childs safety).

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          • #6
            Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
            If it has a court number assigned, your agreement is equal to a court order with the ability to file further motions using the court number.

            All remedies now are the same as if it were a court order.

            My agreement is filed with the court.

            Your friend also has the same remedies, but would first have to file it with the courts.

            And the cops are morons. They generally just don't want to get involved in what they feel are domestic disputes...with or without a court order.
            and even when your ex demand to bring child to her place instead of court ordered place and you refuse as you feel some possibilities of set up and come to police station asking for some one just to come and present during exchange so no more false accusations will come next day they will tell you coming really close trying to intimidate you

            1. Be a man and just go where she asked to
            and after you asked officer what is your name and bage number he will tell you

            My name is Micky Mouse and badge# is 007.
            at least now when I came to police station I always say hello officer Micky Mouse...

            So unless you have police enforcement clause (with expiration date) expect cops do nothing unless there is danger for child safety.

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            • #7
              Thanks all. It sounds as if I'm as protected as I can be then. I don't anticipate problems as we're in a pretty good spot, but no one ever anticipates that kind of crap I guess.

              I can see the cops viewpoint. They shouldn't be in the position of deciding where a child should reside unless the child's safety is an immediate concern. They are afterall, Law Enforcement. I'm sure there are negative stories out there, but that's for another thread in which I have no interest.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by YYZDaddy View Post
                Thanks all. It sounds as if I'm as protected as I can be then. I don't anticipate problems as we're in a pretty good spot, but no one ever anticipates that kind of crap I guess.
                Nobody protected
                yep nobody anticipates. So I would recommend you to go throw process and register it with a court.

                I can see the cops viewpoint. They shouldn't be in the position of deciding where a child should reside unless the child's safety is an immediate concern. They are afterall, Law Enforcement. I'm sure there are negative stories out there, but that's for another thread in which I have no interest.
                exactly and last time I check court order from Supreme Court of Canada is a LAW. I do not even want to start on what is their point of view on court order from family court...

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                • #9
                  One of the sneakiest thing I've learned about the family law rules is that documents have to be witnessed to be valid and enforceable. Every single little side agreement and modification, even when done on consent with both parties signing it, is not legally enforceable without a witness too.

                  I think you're protected as best you can be. Agreement, court order or otherwise, if people want to make trouble, they will make trouble. You can bring them to court and cost everyone money but in the end there are far too few sanctions for people who violate family law agreement. The only exception is in the form of FRO when it comes to money. People who withhold access or make unilateral decisions rarely suffer any real penalties unfortunately.

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                  • #10
                    As I stated, my agreement is certified by both lawyers (therefore, also wittnessed) and filed with the court. I have a hard copy with court file number easily accessible at home and a soft copy with me always, which I can print at the drop of a hat.

                    I've also given my son's school a copy, and left one with my parents and brother (in case I'm at their place if a dispute arrises).

                    I know some in here have experienced hell in this subject. I have not, and hope it stays that way. Just making sure I'm in as good a spot as I can be. We can't control other's actions, only our own.

                    Thanks again everyone - I'm out of this thread.

                    Comment

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