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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #111  
Old 12-01-2015, 01:47 PM
HammerDad HammerDad is offline
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For the police station, I recommend that if the kids are old enough, that the parent who is to pick up the kids arrives at the police station first and goes into the lobby area just inside the doors. The ex can then drive up to the doors or walk the kids to the just outside the doors and then send them in. The ex turns around and leaves while the kids are greeted by the parent who is going to exercise their parenting time.

It isn't ideal, but it sure beats not seeing the kids.
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  #112  
Old 12-02-2015, 09:07 PM
ninehundredt ninehundredt is offline
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I appreciate the responses, but utilizing the police station or a Tim Horton's are simply not options...mainly due to the no-contact condition. Because of this there has to be a third party present. There is flexibility in regards to who this can be...either a friend, family member, or social worker...etc.

I'm going to continue digging to see if I can locate an alternative to the CAS affiliated program. Worst case I don't see the children until the end of January. I've waited this long, so another month isn't going to make much difference in the big scheme of things. Trying to stay positive.
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  #113  
Old 12-02-2015, 09:31 PM
stripes stripes is offline
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Why not have a third party do the exchange on your behalf? E.g.

You and Third Party drive to the local library with the kids (a community rec centre would also work - anywhere with security). You stay in the car. TP takes the kids in. Mom comes in, gets kids from TP. Mom and kids drive away. Then you and TP drive away. When it's your turn to get the kids, do the same routine in reverse.
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  #114  
Old 02-05-2016, 11:53 AM
ninehundredt ninehundredt is offline
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Finally have a bit of an update. Attempts to utilize an exchange centre were painful. The facility we applied to would nit-pick every little detail, and would not begin the exchanges without having every last scrap of information about the case. Having a court order wasn't enough. Surprising considering it's their sole job to facilitate exchanges. Government bureaucracy at it's finest.

I managed to get one of my close friends to do exchanges for me so I could see the kids at Christmas. Although we hadn't seen or spoken to each other in six months, it went surprisingly well. I think I had a harder time emotionally than they did. Within a few minutes of being back together it was like nothing ever happened. It's comforting to know that our bond is so strong.

My lawyer ended up contacting the Crown Attorney directly to see what could be done about my ex's no-contact (which she was taking advantage of to withhold the children). The Crown Attorney agreed to withdraw it under the terms that my ex would be required to keep the peace and take a parenting course.

Now that the no-contact has been withdrawn you would think exchanges could now carry on uninterrupted, but my ex and her lawyer are insisting that the exchanges continue to be supervised.
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  #115  
Old 02-06-2016, 01:46 PM
ninehundredt ninehundredt is offline
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So I need some feedback. Now that my ex's criminal charges have been withdrawn, is there any reason why a judge wouldn't enforce a return to normal exchanges, without utilizing a third party?

I'm going to file a motion to change based on the updated situation, and don't really know what to expect.
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  #116  
Old 02-06-2016, 02:04 PM
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LovingFather32 LovingFather32 is offline
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Your ex's refusal to let you see your children makes me sick. She's using the system like mine did. I just reread your thread and can't get over the delays. Your CC conveniently adjourned twice by OP ..... while kids can't see dad.

Gross, putrid, disgusting woman.

I'll be on tonight to chat. Yes you're going for a motion. And yes you're seeing your kids soon. She can go to hell for depriving the kids their right to see you.

Hang in there pal. Be on later.
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  #117  
Old 02-07-2016, 04:21 PM
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mafia007 mafia007 is offline
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Default See the difference between male and female re: Criminal charge

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninehundredt View Post
So I need some feedback. Now that my ex's criminal charges have been withdrawn, is there any reason why a judge wouldn't enforce a return to normal exchanges, without utilizing a third party?

I'm going to file a motion to change based on the updated situation, and don't really know what to expect.
This is HILARIOUS... ninehundredt my case is somewhat similar to you except the charge were laid on me; with access denied after loosing access to my home... going through a big stress of what would be the outcome as I had to relocate, manage extra expenses on top of mortgage and utilities of the marital home, pay CS and so on... no friends and family around to talk to so I relied on my co-workers to express my feelings and "bang". I was arrested at work for saying "I felt to choke her for what she was doing." I'm the one with criminal charge and after the CC, I can't see my kids unless it's supervised. In your case, she's the one with criminal charge and SHE HAS THE KIDS with her and she's asking for your access to be supervised...

Seriously, Family Law is really driven by discrimination and as my charge will also be dropped just before my next motion, I can't wait to see if my access will be re-instated the way I am requesting. For sure it will be a long week. I'll keep updating my other thread so that people see what are the outcomes with parenting when the father faces criminal charge vs the mother.
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  #118  
Old 02-07-2016, 09:44 PM
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LovingFather32 LovingFather32 is offline
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ninehundret..

You can't wait any longer IMO. She was demanding supervised due to her false allegations correct? Those same allegations have just been tossed out and spit on by the court ... yet, still no kids.

Her evidence attempting to portray an abusive monster have failed..the courts tossed them.

This, I believe is the "Material Change in Circumstance" that would warrant a motion to change.

I still can't get over how your ex's lawyer has been conveniently "unavailable" for Case Conferences..adjournment after adjournment. Hey .. there's a child here being deprived of a relationship with their father. (RULE 2: PRIMARY OBJECTIVES...see below)

DELAY DELAY DELAY is her game plan.

1. You don't need a supervised CTR (or supervision for that matter) if she cannot prove why you would at this upcoming motion.

2. You'll have the most pristine Parenting Plan the courts have ever seen.

3. You'll present a clean record check, the fact that there's never been an issue that required the police or DV situation throughout your entire relationship.

4. Look up "Parenting After Separation classes" and do yourself a favor by registering.

5. Bring her denials of access. Send another registered letter outlining the fact that her allegations have been given no weight by the courts, your kids haven't seen you in 6 months or so and that you would like to be granted a graduated schedule, eventually leading to your desired outcome. Collect that denial as an exhibit also.

6. "Maximum Contact". This principle will guide the entire motion. You're no danger and she has nothing to say that you are...judges spit on her allegations already. These kids are entitled to see have as much contact with you as possible.

7. Provide CLRA's (I can via PM if you like), caselaw (Gawd .. I have tons just for your situation) and a nice factum (if you're going for a long motion).

8. Get an Offer to settle out and suggest mediation and www.ourfamilywizard.com for communication.

9. Bring a list of potential ppl/places for exchanges (preferably peep you both mutually know).

I forget if there was the drug/alcohol stuff there usually is...it's usually a, "allegations package" (puke). If so, get some blood tests, a hair follicle if you can afford it, and/or a full toxicology from your family Dr. ( I did all of the above. Even a liver enzyme test that can identify any binge drinking).

You're going to be fully prepared, reasonable, well dressed, soft spoken and caring.

I also want shit to hit the fan regarding their delays. This doesn't coincide with the "Primary Objectives"

Primary Objectives: Rule 2 (2)(3)(4)(5):
Quote:
PRIMARY OBJECTIVE
(2) The primary objective of these rules is to enable the court to deal with cases justly. O. Reg. 114/99, r. 2 (2).

DEALING WITH CASES JUSTLY
(3) Dealing with a case justly includes,

(a) ensuring that the procedure is fair to all parties;

(b) saving expense and time;

(c) dealing with the case in ways that are appropriate to its importance and complexity; and

(d) giving appropriate court resources to the case while taking account of the need to give resources to other cases. O. Reg. 114/99, r. 2 (3).

DUTY TO PROMOTE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE
(4) The court is required to apply these rules to promote the primary objective, and parties and their lawyers are required to help the court to promote the primary objective. O. Reg. 114/99, r. 2 (4).

DUTY TO MANAGE CASES
(5) The court shall promote the primary objective by active management of cases, which includes,

(a) at an early stage, identifying the issues, and separating and disposing of those that do not need full investigation and trial;

(b) encouraging and facilitating use of alternatives to the court process;

(c) helping the parties to settle all or part of the case;

(d) setting timetables or otherwise controlling the progress of the case;

(e) considering whether the likely benefits of taking a step justify the cost;

(f) dealing with as many aspects of the case as possible on the same occasion; and

(g) if appropriate, dealing with the case without parties and their lawyers needing to come to court, on the basis of written documents or by holding a telephone or video conference. O. Reg. 114/99, r. 2 (5).https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/990114
I want to help you with this. I know the sheer terror you've felt by having a child ripped away, being painted as a monster and having your children withheld from you. It takes a special kind of person to be able to do that to another human being.

Judges are "smart" and many are catching on. It's parents like your ex who require the supervision .. because what they're doing is child abuse in my books.

If only we had some kind of documentary to help with all of this. I highly recommend Mr. T's boot camp also.

Last edited by LovingFather32; 02-07-2016 at 09:54 PM.
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  #119  
Old 02-08-2016, 08:05 PM
ninehundredt ninehundredt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mafia007 View Post
This is HILARIOUS... ninehundredt my case is somewhat similar to you except the charge were laid on me; with access denied after loosing access to my home... going through a big stress of what would be the outcome as I had to relocate, manage extra expenses on top of mortgage and utilities of the marital home, pay CS and so on... no friends and family around to talk to so I relied on my co-workers to express my feelings and "bang". I was arrested at work for saying "I felt to choke her for what she was doing." I'm the one with criminal charge and after the CC, I can't see my kids unless it's supervised. In your case, she's the one with criminal charge and SHE HAS THE KIDS with her and she's asking for your access to be supervised...

Seriously, Family Law is really driven by discrimination and as my charge will also be dropped just before my next motion, I can't wait to see if my access will be re-instated the way I am requesting. For sure it will be a long week. I'll keep updating my other thread so that people see what are the outcomes with parenting when the father faces criminal charge vs the mother.
The entire system is flawed...mainly because it was designed around the idea that both parties would be reasonable. That's why it ends up being the long game for so many of us. Patience seems to be your only option if you hope to resolve anything. I'll have a look at your thread when I get a chance.
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  #120  
Old 02-08-2016, 08:38 PM
ninehundredt ninehundredt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post
You can't wait any longer IMO. She was demanding supervised due to her false allegations correct? Those same allegations have just been tossed out and spit on by the court ... yet, still no kids.

Her evidence attempting to portray an abusive monster have failed..the courts tossed them.
She hasn't provided any explanation as to her rationale for continuing supervised exchanges. As you mentioned it's just more stalling / delay tactics. Even after threatening a motion, her lawyer responded that they were content with the supervised exchanges based on the content of the current interim order. I'm hoping we have the motion prepared and submitted this week so I have a solid date to get in front of a judge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingFather32 View Post

This, I believe is the "Material Change in Circumstance" that would warrant a motion to change.

I still can't get over how your ex's lawyer has been conveniently "unavailable" for Case Conferences..adjournment after adjournment. Hey .. there's a child here being deprived of a relationship with their father. (RULE 2: PRIMARY OBJECTIVES...see below)

DELAY DELAY DELAY is her game plan.

1. You don't need a supervised CTR (or supervision for that matter) if she cannot prove why you would at this upcoming motion.

2. You'll have the most pristine Parenting Plan the courts have ever seen.

3. You'll present a clean record check, the fact that there's never been an issue that required the police or DV situation throughout your entire relationship.

4. Look up "Parenting After Separation classes" and do yourself a favor by registering.

5. Bring her denials of access. Send another registered letter outlining the fact that her allegations have been given no weight by the courts, your kids haven't seen you in 6 months or so and that you would like to be granted a graduated schedule, eventually leading to your desired outcome. Collect that denial as an exhibit also.

6. "Maximum Contact". This principle will guide the entire motion. You're no danger and she has nothing to say that you are...judges spit on her allegations already. These kids are entitled to see have as much contact with you as possible.

7. Provide CLRA's (I can via PM if you like), caselaw (Gawd .. I have tons just for your situation) and a nice factum (if you're going for a long motion).

8. Get an Offer to settle out and suggest mediation and www.ourfamilywizard.com for communication.

9. Bring a list of potential ppl/places for exchanges (preferably peep you both mutually know).

I forget if there was the drug/alcohol stuff there usually is...it's usually a, "allegations package" (puke). If so, get some blood tests, a hair follicle if you can afford it, and/or a full toxicology from your family Dr. ( I did all of the above. Even a liver enzyme test that can identify any binge drinking).

You're going to be fully prepared, reasonable, well dressed, soft spoken and caring.

I also want shit to hit the fan regarding their delays. This doesn't coincide with the "Primary Objectives"

Primary Objectives: Rule 2 (2)(3)(4)(5):


I want to help you with this. I know the sheer terror you've felt by having a child ripped away, being painted as a monster and having your children withheld from you. It takes a special kind of person to be able to do that to another human being.

Judges are "smart" and many are catching on. It's parents like your ex who require the supervision .. because what they're doing is child abuse in my books.

If only we had some kind of documentary to help with all of this. I highly recommend Mr. T's boot camp also.
I appreciate any advice or help offered. On a positive note, I have been able to see my kids periodically, and should be spending this coming weekend with them. I've already checked off most, if not all of the items on the list you provided. To clarify this is the current status:

1. OCL has agreed to review the case. I am aware of how this process goes, thanks to the great sticky on here. I'm hoping that a third party objective evaluation will add credence to my request for a change in custody. They accepted back in the beginning of January, and I haven't been contacted by them yet. Hoping to hear from them soon.

2. Preparing a motion to remove the supervised exchange terms from the current interim order. My lawyer is not 100% sure the judge will make the change based on the fact that the case is temporarily adjourned until the OCL investigation is completed. As an alternative (if the judge won't remove the supervised exchange terms) the current interim order would require a change to reflect the latest circumstances before it can be resubmitted to an exchange centre.

There are more specific questions I would like to ask you LF32, but it would probably be easier via instant messenger. PM me if you want to discuss.
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