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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 06-07-2016, 07:49 AM
traehder traehder is offline
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Hi all. I'm new to the forum and have been reading many old threads.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

Background:

Father paying full table amount of child support since court order in 2004. Father earns approximately 70K per year, varies 5-10K from year to year. Support order includes table amount plus proportionate amount of S.7 expenses, states that mother must provide all receipts to father.

Father provided income tax summaries in 2005 - 2008 and requested income tax summaries from mother but was refused. Father continued to pay table support, adjusting according to his income and paid S.7 expenses at the same rate decreed by judge, even though it is unknown what the proper ratio would be.

Child entered university in 2012, lived away from home for 8 months of the year. Child acquired some student loans (for unknown amount). There was a savings of approximately $15 000 contributed to by both parents, for the child's post secondary education, which was fully under the mother's control. Mother demanded father pay for university registration, other fees. Father paid these fees (on top of monthly table amount) and requested all receipts for expenses, tax summaries. Mother refused to send receipts, loan information, any financial information at all.

Father continued to pay full table amount of child support for 4 years of university. Child worked full time for approximately 4 months each year. Child failed numerous courses in first year of university and now requires an extra semester of school. Mother continued to refuse to send any receipts or other financial information. Father decided it was in best interests of child to just keep paying table amount instead of taking mother to court.

Father stopped paying full table support amount when child finished 4th year of university (April 2016). Mother is demanding that the father continue to pay, up until December 2016, while child completes another semester to make up for failed courses. Father feels that he has paid more than what would have been required during 4 years of university. Mother is now threatening through lawyer to take father to court to change the child support order and is threatening to ask for a review of past years.

Neither father or mother attended university, neither did other (older) child of the marriage. Mother has done her best to alienate the children from the father. Child did not communicate with father for several years from approximately 2011- 2013.

The child is currently working full time and living with a significant other some of the time, possibly up to 5 days per week. Father is going to give child $200 per month for September - December to help with expenses and child knows this, as does mother.

Is there any chance that a judge would require the father to continue paying support? Should he go on the offensive or wait to see what the mother does?
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:44 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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First a few questions:

What does their order say re post secondary? First degree or age 21?

What does their agreement say regarding expenses for school?

Are they in a province with a maintenance agency that mom could file order for recovery? (Ontario = FRO)

Basically based on what youve written he should not have paid anything without proper receipts. Plus since kid was away, full table is not applicable for the months kid is away.

Mom is bluffing. Dad needs to do two things: first tell her no more until proper documentation (transcripts) is provided to prove her attendance, course load and failure rates; second he needs to go back and calculate his portion of kids expenses and what he has paid in cs for those months.

I recommend he tell her to take any measures she feels are reasonable but as far as he is concerned the child is no longer defined as child of the marriage under the divorce act and he will seek costs should she be unsuccessful in her endeavour. Also tell her that he wants full documentation on costs, residence location and grades for the four years of university and proof of moms income for those years to determine if he has overpaid cs and s7 as he will be requesting reimbursement for that amount.

Then put her on ignore.

If it went to court she would have to provide all of the information and it would more than likely show he has overpaid and owes her money. Shes bluffing and hoping that the threats spur him to keep paying.

Just my two cents though, not a lawyer!
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Old 06-07-2016, 11:54 AM
somethingelse somethingelse is offline
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Rockscan, do you mean in your third last line, "it would more than likely show he has overpaid and she owes him money." ?
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:34 PM
traehder traehder is offline
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Thanks for your response, Rockscan. (I've actually been reading a lot of your posts in my search through the threads on topics related to post secondary child support.)

Support order says nothing about when support ends, or about post secondary. Simply says that father pays full table amount, x% of S.7 expenses, mother must provide receipts.

Yes, we're in Ontario. Payments are not made through FRO - they are made directly to mother. I believe we have paperwork from just after the court order was made, initiated by mother, to withdraw from FRO.

Your comments are pretty much what we're thinking; mother and lawyer are bluffing. We can only guess at what the costs were for the last 4 years, mother's income, child's income, etc. etc. but our best guess is that father has overpaid $5-10K. He chose to do so, rather than have another battle.

We're just not sure whether we should just ignore lawyer's demands for post-dated cheques for table amount until December 2016, or hire a lawyer and file a motion to end support or whatever.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:43 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Yes i meant what somethingelse said. My thumbs!!!

If he is sick of it he could file a motion to stop paying anything. Otherwise do what I suggested and tell her to bring it but will request the overpayment be returned and his legal costs paid.

The bottom line is the kid is no longer a child of the marriage. Even though shes still in school, permanent students cant keep switching back and forth and failing just so mom can collect money. Added to that, kid has cut off the relationship.
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Old 06-07-2016, 01:46 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockscan
If it went to court she would have to provide all of the information and it would more than likely show he has overpaid and owes her money!

I meant if it went to court it would probably show HE overpaid and SHE owes him money.
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:19 PM
traehder traehder is offline
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I knew what you meant.

Is filing a motion to end support fairly straightforward? I haven't even begun to delve into posts about self-rep'ing...
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Old 06-07-2016, 02:41 PM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traehder View Post
I knew what you meant.

Is filing a motion to end support fairly straightforward? I haven't even begun to delve into posts about self-rep'ing...
You don't need a motion to end support. You and the other party withdrew from FRO. You simply notify them that you are ending the CS obligations and tell them to take you to court otherwise. You don't have to initiate anything.

You would only go to court if you had to get an order to tell FRO to stop collecting. You and the other party have withdrawn from FRO. So don't send more checks.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:08 PM
traehder traehder is offline
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Ah, Ok - thanks, Tayken. I wasn't sure if the mother could refile with FRO. The lawyer is threatening a motion to vary the order and ask for a retroactive review of the last 4 years. I have no idea how they think that would be to their benefit, so I think it must be a bluff. This lawyer has proven to be a nasty piece of work in the past, as has the mother.
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Old 06-07-2016, 04:38 PM
stripes stripes is offline
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Kid had the opportunity to complete an undergraduate degree with parents' financial help, but has not done so (failed too many courses). Dad contributed the equivalent of four years' post-secondary support to Kid. Kid is now working full-time and cohabiting with partner (i.e. living as an adult). I would say Kid is no longer a child of the marriage as legally defined, and Dad's obligations are at an end. I suggest Dad tell Mom that she should do whatever she feels she needs to do, and then ignore her. (In other words, I agree with rockscan).
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