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  • Age to which children can say where they want to live?

    In Canada, is there an age where children to the parent's can say where they would like to reside? ie. one parent over the other? 50/50?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Where is the Light View Post
    In Canada, is there an age where children to the parent's can say where they would like to reside? ie. one parent over the other? 50/50?

    Thanks.
    18.

    If the child is a minor, and there is a court order or agreement providing for a custodial regime, than until the court order or agreement is amended, the regime stays in place.

    At the age of 12 a court will begin to listen to the child's wants, and then based off of the child's reasoning and maturity, make a decision from there. As the kids get older, than the courts give their wishes more weight. At 16, the kid can pretty much tell the court where they want to live and the court will rubber stamp it.

    But if there is a court order, that is what must be followed until it is amended by further court order or agreement. (meaning the kids can't just up and change their mind one day and everything is a done deal. The parent still needs to either get the other parent to agree to the change, or fight them in court).

    Comment


    • #3
      The law and court orders are fine and dandy....BUT, if the kid doesn't want to go, what are you going to do, call the cops to physically haul the kid over to the other spouses house ???

      My niece, 11, no longer wants to see her father. Hates the man. Something happened between them. He called CAS, they investigated, and moved on. He was charging parental alienation.

      My sister NEEDS him to look after their daughter due to her working. In fact she has custody, primary residence, with NO RESTRICTIONS on where she can live and she chose to move 2 blocks from her ex to make it easier. This is making it difficult for my sister. She has tried to reason with my niece but to no avail; she will have nothing to do with her father.

      Again, court orders and agreements are fine but you can't call the police every week to pick up your kid kicking and screaming when they don't want to go.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by keepmovingforward View Post
        The law and court orders are fine and dandy....BUT, if the kid doesn't want to go, what are you going to do, call the cops to physically haul the kid over to the other spouses house ???

        My niece, 11, no longer wants to see her father. Hates the man. Something happened between them. He called CAS, they investigated, and moved on. He was charging parental alienation.

        My sister NEEDS him to look after their daughter due to her working. In fact she has custody, primary residence, with NO RESTRICTIONS on where she can live and she chose to move 2 blocks from her ex to make it easier. This is making it difficult for my sister. She has tried to reason with my niece but to no avail; she will have nothing to do with her father.

        Again, court orders and agreements are fine but you can't call the police every week to pick up your kid kicking and screaming when they don't want to go.
        What do you do when the kid doesn't want to go to school and is kicking and screaming? You parent the child......

        There is also counselling for the child to help them understand that having a meaningful relationship and frequent contact both parents is in their best interests.

        You sister has tried to reason with the child. Now it is time to move forward from reasoning and start to taking away privileges etc.

        There are things in life that, as adults, we don't want to do.....like go to work. It is good that kids learn that in life, one doesn't always get their way.

        But as stated, unless there is a court order, she needs to go.

        Comment


        • #5
          What do you do when the kid doesn't want to go to school and is kicking and screaming? You parent the child......
          I generally agree with this except unless this child has a legitimate problem with her father...ie sexual abuse.

          I think your sister needs to really understand what the issue is either through speaking with the child or counselling.

          Its bizarre that the child is suddenly refusing to go there if the mother has encouraged the visitation.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Pursuinghappiness View Post
            I generally agree with this except unless this child has a legitimate problem with her father...ie sexual abuse.

            I think your sister needs to really understand what the issue is either through speaking with the child or counselling.

            Its bizarre that the child is suddenly refusing to go there if the mother has encouraged the visitation.
            Agreed. It also does seem odd. Hence why I suggested counselling.

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            • #7
              Counselling - check. did it. Didn't help.
              CAS investigation - check. Nothing came of it.
              Didn't happen ' " all of a sudden".
              If the kid doesn't want to have a relationship with another human being (father) then she doesn't. Regardless if it's her father.
              This same thing happens in families that are intact. You just don't hear about it.

              "What do you do when the kid doesn't want to go to school and is kicking and screaming? You parent the child......"

              Bad example. What if one spouse doesn't want to be married anymore ? Doesn't want the other person in their life ? Tell them they must ? Same logic.


              "There are things in life that, as adults, we don't want to do.....like go to work. It is good that kids learn that in life, one doesn't always get their way."
              Again, bad example. Work - pay - lifestyle. You can't equate human relationships to school and work. if I used this line of thinking then she can't choose her friends or other relationships in her life. Who to get close to and who not to. yes, you parent and try to counsel her on why she needs to have a relationship with her father. Sister, CAS, and counselling didn't work, so now what ? Punish her ? Really ? You must or ELSE ? You're kidding right ?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by keepmovingforward View Post
                Bad example. What if one spouse doesn't want to be married anymore ? Doesn't want the other person in their life ? Tell them they must ? Same logic.
                Bad example. You are comparing minors to adults. You are also comparing instances where there is a court order for parenting time to an instance where there is no such obligation to maintain any such relationship.


                Again, bad example. Work - pay - lifestyle. You can't equate human relationships to school and work. if I used this line of thinking then she can't choose her friends or other relationships in her life. Who to get close to and who not to. yes, you parent and try to counsel her on why she needs to have a relationship with her father. Sister, CAS, and counselling didn't work, so now what ? Punish her ? Really ? You must or ELSE ? You're kidding right ?
                Not really. Counselling didn't work the first time, so try again.

                Your sister and the child need to realize that there is a court order. If the child does not attend it is your sister that could be found in contempt. If it persists, custody could be reversed. While the reversal is an extreme, it does happen. Unless the court order provides parenting time is at the child's option, it isn't optional.

                If your sister truly has an issue here and wants to make a change so she won't be found in contempt, she will have to file a motion to change the existing parenting time schedule. Just don't think that it will be an easy sell to the judge. Until such change is made though, the kid must go or your sister's ex could file a motion for contempt.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Counselling - check. did it. Didn't help.
                  The child is 11 so how long did she go to counselling and in what context? Did both the parents attend sessions with her? Why isn't she still in it?

                  CAS investigation - check. Nothing came of it.
                  You stated that he called CAS regarding alienation. When CAS interviewed the child...did she state why she hated her father? You stated that something happened between them. What's the something? That's my point. It sounds like you and no one else knows including the counsellor apparently....which leads me to believe she needs more counselling with perhaps someone more competent than the previous one.

                  If the kid doesn't want to have a relationship with another human being (father) then she doesn't. Regardless if it's her father.
                  This same thing happens in families that are intact. You just don't hear about it.
                  However, how often does that happen with an 11 year old child?? I would agree that older children make those choices sometimes.

                  Bad example. What if one spouse doesn't want to be married anymore ? Doesn't want the other person in their life ? Tell them they must ? Same logic.
                  Its not the same logic. Divorcing couples are adults. An 11 year old isn't. In fact, she hasn't even completed physical, mental or emotional development.

                  Again, bad example. Work - pay - lifestyle. You can't equate human relationships to school and work. if I used this line of thinking then she can't choose her friends or other relationships in her life. Who to get close to and who not to.
                  We're not talking about friends...we're talking about her own father. The relationship she shares with him is unique and shouldn't be taken lightly as it is crucial for her development. Again, you haven't even defined the root of the problem...you just say "something happened"...and yet support the idea of throwing away one of the most important relationships a child has in their life. And again, 11 year olds don't get the full right to define who they have relationships with. I was dragged to a lot of relatives houses in my childhood that I would never visit in my adulthood.

                  Punish her ? Really ? You must or ELSE ? You're kidding right ?
                  Actually, I would define punishing a child is disregarding the importance of her making every attempt to have a good relationship with her father and letting it go without truly even understanding the root cause of the problem.

                  Frankly, you're the sister...so maybe you should let these people figure out how to parent their child and stand back a bit. I'm not suggesting you're interfering but it wouldn't be the 1st time that secondary family has caused a detrimental effect on divorcing people and their kids.

                  Just sayin'....

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by keepmovingforward View Post
                    My sister NEEDS him to look after their daughter due to her working.
                    Why must he look after the kid?

                    Can't a babysitter do it?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HammerDad View Post
                      What do you do when the kid doesn't want to go to school and is kicking and screaming? You parent the child......

                      You sister has tried to reason with the child. Now it is time to move forward from reasoning and start to taking away privileges etc.

                      There are things in life that, as adults, we don't want to do.....like go to work. It is good that kids learn that in life, one doesn't always get their way.

                      But as stated, unless there is a court order, she needs to go.
                      Respectfully thinking that the whole "you send the child to school" argument is over simplified.

                      If my child was kicking and screaming about going to school, I would do my best to find out what the problem is. I would talk with my child over and over to try to find out what the problem is at school and work with the child to find a solution. I would approach the school, meet with the teachers and principal to determine any issues. I would ask for advice and suggestions from those people to fix the issue that is troubling my child. I would be proactive in helping my child to deal with the situation or to fix a problem at the school. I would never just say "Go to school or you will be punished" without doing due diligence.

                      The difficulty with working with your ex (in my case) is that he won't work together with the kids. He wouldn't discuss why my oldest didn't want to go with him in our early separation. He wouldn't work towards solutions that would maintain their relationship and their mutual respect. He refused to take any responsibility at all.

                      If the other parent really and truly IS part (most?) of the problem, how is my parenting going to do anything other than force my child into a situation that is difficult and stressful and that they don't have the skills to handle? Children are powerless enough in divorce/separation without having to deal with behaviours from my ex that even I can't figure out. Assuming there is no alienation, I am not in charge of the ex's relationship with the children. I should keep pushing them over there so he could repeatedly damage the quality of their relationship? So wonderful.

                      I think the school reference is overly simplistic. Of course, you have to obey a court order. I certainly would obey it. But to add punishment to the child because a child expresses that they don't want to go? Not sure that is helpful. I think that would make the child feel worse about the other parent.

                      Obviously if the child feels THAT strongly, there is a deeper problem in the relationship with the child/parent interactions already established.
                      Last edited by SadAndTired; 08-02-2013, 01:10 PM.

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