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  • #31
    Mcdreamy, I was only indicating that we misunderstood each other on the singular point about notification versus opportunity. No point in dwelling on it, though, you are correct, we don't agree on the rest of the stuff.

    I'm just not comfortable with the notion that the dad has somehow been negligent because he didn't attend every doctor's appointment along with the mother. It is rare that both parents attend these things, and even rarer, I suspect in a case like this. The poster has indicated that both the doctor and the mother have behaved dissmissively towards the father in the past. I get that we are only hearing one side of it, but if we only commented on stories that had both sides present, this forum would be pretty dead.

    I don't think that we have enough information to speculate on whether or not the child in question is getting enough exercise or playing too many video games. We don't know the family situation. You're right, it is important to know if the father has 50-50 access. In fact, if he doesn't, and there is a lifestyle related issue, then it makes it all the more imperative for the mother to engage in a more mature fashion.

    More folks on this thread are saying that while he has a right to take his child to a different doctor, he shouldn't, because it will cause conflict. Okay, I'll buy that - I even indicated in an earlier post on this thread that exercising that right might not be the wisest course.

    So, let me pose this to you: Let's assume that the child in question is with the mother the majority of the time, and she is unwilling to discuss the issue with the father and consider either A) A lifestyle change for the child or B) More tests. If she really is most responsible for the child's diet and activity, but isn't interested in budging, and it is just a diet and lifestyle issue as has been suggested, what are they to do?

    I'll admit that I am selfishly asking for personal reference. I have a decent enough working relationship with my ex (hell, her boyfriend took the kids to the dentist today, and I managed to not feel territorial about it), but what if we did reach a disagreement on treatment or lifestyle choices for the kids? What are some of the ways to get the other parent to even discuss?

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Straittohell View Post
      Dinkyface, I agree, parents should agree on one doctor, but that is assuming that both parents are reasonable people and accept each other as equal decision makers.

      The mother in this situation is the one that has been making all of the unilateral calls, and has intimated to the father that his attendance at the appointments is a mere formality, and that his opinion doesn't matter.

      The history of this situation, as I read it, is that the mother and father were never together, and the mother has consistently tried to call all of the shots from the beginning. I'm struggling to see how the father's opposition to that makes him the one being unilateral.

      He's not trying to make some kind of power play, or engage in silly games, he's trying to look out for his kid's health. We can suggest that the father "work with the mother" until we're blue in the face, but the mother clearly doesn't value the father's opinion, value his existence as a parent from the way she is acting, and the doctor happens to be 'her' doctor, and we all know just how much doctors love to admit when they might be wrong, so what is his atual recourse?
      That's all emotional fluff.

      Just talk to the Dr who has already seen the kid. Then go from there.

      Comment


      • #33
        Dinkyface,

        It's not emotional fluff, I'm just basing my commentary on what I read from the original poster:

        "Be it right or not, the doctor has some ill-feelings toward the father. The father has tried attending appointments but it was very clear to him that neither the doctor nor the mother were interested in his concerns. The mother thinks she knows best and her doctor backs her up. The mother also schedules the appointments at times when she knows the father will not be able to attend without taking a day off work. It is a 2.5-hour drive from the father's work to the doctor's office... one way."

        Are you suggesting that the father book an appointment with this doctor particular doctor to discuss the matter? I envision him driving 2.5 hours to this doctor's office, and upon arrival, finding the mother waiting for him, and being told by both the doctor and the mother that his concerns aren't valid, case closed.

        The original poster has been pretty clear in indicating that there is some kind of a bias against the father by both the mother and the doctor. Again, I understand that she is only telling their side, but that is the only side that we can hear at this point. So, it sounds like the father has attempted to discuss matters with the mother and the doctor, and that they have been dismissed. What are his options?

        Comment


        • #34
          Father lives 2.5 hrs from mother and other doctor then it would be logical for father to simply take kid to his own doctor.

          We're not talking amputation here.

          Doctor #2 can email or send fax to doctor #1 "in consultation regarding patient XXX"....

          Comment


          • #35
            Write a letter with your concerns to both the current doctor and mom. State your concerns and advise that you are seeking a second opinion and your preference is to see doctor xxx (your doctor). Request that all pertinent/relevant health informations/records be provided for this purpose.

            I've learned that it is often helpful to lead people to the conclusion you are seeking. You are basically advising your intent as opposed to asking permission. There is no need to seek permission when you have authority to do so (be it be implied, passive or specific authority).

            In all the years I have been married my husband and I never attended routine appointments. When divorced parents attend routine dental cleanings etc who are in conflict this is about control and not need. And it's stupid as it puts everyone in an environment that could quite possibly lead to conflict.

            Someone stated earlier up that any parent is entitled to access health records of children. That is not true. Access only (parents without custody) do not have rights to their children's medical records without the consent of the other parent.

            A custodial parent has rights to children's medical info. And the other parent's permission is not required, although often sought anyways. The Acts that govern personal info are difficult to interpret.

            Further more, a 12 year old could be considered a "responsible minor". And in these cases the responsible minor's consent is needed to release to either parent or any one!

            Comment


            • #36
              the father tries to speak up at the appointments and gets shot down by both doctor and mother. I don't think a letter will help.

              Comment


              • #37
                A letter advises of dad's intentions and is transparent. It will also be put in the child's file - it therefore becomes part of a health record.

                The dad proceeds to schedule appointment with doctor xxx. Mom can elect to go (or not), that is her choice. No point in even asking if she will attend it is irrelevant.

                Dad trusts Doctor xxx. Dad can voice his concerns to doctor xxx.

                Comment


                • #38
                  In a perfect world... this forum wouldn't exist. But unfortunately it isn't a perfect world (just look at what's happening out there these days) and there are no perfect parents. The question wasn't who's right and who's wrong, or who's being controlling and who isn't... the question was whether parents who have Joint Custody can EACH take their child to a doctor for a simple check-up without the other parent's consent or presence at the appointment. For example, if in a nuclear family, parents can take their child to a medical appointment on their own... does that ring true for a separated family? One parent says "yes" while the other says "no." And there lies the problem. Perhaps this is a question best asked a lawyer. Thanks to those who replied and provided some valuable insight, taking the time to understand the situation and question without jumping to conclusions or assuming ulterior motives. If I manage to get a concrete response from a lawyer, I'll let you know!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    A doctor is not party to your SA or Order. Any custodial parent can take their child to a doctor. The parent however may be under terms of a SA or Order with regards to medical attention. However you advised that there is no text pertaining to same in your hubby's SA. Therefore he can indeed take the child to his family doctor. Which why I advised that he write the letter to both mom and the current doctor - then everything is above board. There is no benefit to doing anything behind mom's back. Further as she is also a custodial parent she has a right to know. Mom can object all she wants. But dad is well within his right.

                    Btw, failure to follow prescribed medical treatment falls under the child and family services act.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Serene, the only provision is that all medical and education-related decisions pertaining to the child will be made jointly. And if they can't, they shall be ordered by the court. It also says that all day-to-day needs are to be met by the parent in whose custody the child is at the time.

                      The father doesn't want any treatment... just a basic check-up for a second opinion, that he wants to take the child to on his time. The mother claims no second opinion is necessary and that the father cannot take the child without her consent and presence at the appointment. Yet she takes the child to whichever doctor she feels and she feels completely disregarding whether the father agrees or wishes to attend. So if she can do that, why can the father not do the same? You see the double standard? Either way... the question has been posed to a lawyer... just waiting on a response. Will let you know what he says.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        The lawyer will confirm what we have been saying, which is that the father has every right to take his son to a doctor's appointment without the mother's permission. She is blowing hot air.

                        Whether or not it is wise to fan the flames of conflict by doing so is entirely a judgement call.

                        I am someone who has both done a lot to keep the peace AND stood up for what was right, despite the inevitable conflict that has followed. There are times when the threat of conflict is outweighed by the needs of the child, and the rights of the father to be allowed to parent on his time without interference from the mother.

                        I'll confess up front that I'm very biased based on a personal experience. My ex and I were in a mediation session, and she was objecting to us wording our separation agreement in a way that ensured we had to agree and have equal say on major decision points related to treatment, schooling, childcare, etc. We had already agreed on 50-50, and I had demonstrated myself to be an equal partner in both running our former household (chores), and in the care of our children (daily interaction, extracurriculars, doctors appointments, etc.) She wanted to have final say. When the mediator pointedly asked her why my ex felt that she should have carte blanch decision making in a 50-50 arrangement with an equally involved parent, my ex, quite possibly without thinking, said:

                        "Because I'm the mom."

                        Well, at least she was honest.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Straittohell View Post
                          When the mediator pointedly asked her why my ex felt that she should have carte blanch decision making in a 50-50 arrangement with an equally involved parent, my ex, quite possibly without thinking, said:

                          "Because I'm the mom."

                          Well, at least she was honest.
                          Oh my! We have heard the exact same reason... over and over and over. Even though mediators, counsellors, lawyers and judges have told her that she can't use that ("Because I'm the mom!") against the father whenever she disagrees with him, she still uses it. And you're right, you have to pick your battles. And this is what the father is trying to decide in this case... is this particular battle worth fighting. It's tough because whenever he gives an inch, she tries to take a mile. It's even more disheartening seeing a father slip closer and closer to giving up because the battles are just too frequent and too tolling. But I'm sure he's not the only one feeling this way. It's just unfortunate for all involved.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            We also hear a lot of: "You must respect me [read: do as I say] because I'm the mom!"

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Again, my recommendations still stand. Let her take dad to court....appointment will be done and over with.

                              And fyi, if she denies appointment - that won't look good on her.

                              Treatment equates to "treating doctor". A doctor seeing the child is "treating him". Even if no further recommendations are given/required.

                              Stop over analyzing and proceed. She'd have to demonstrate how this is not in the child's best interests in court. And again, dad can get him in front of a doctor before then....don't be a victim of your own behaviours. Go ahead!

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Just spoke with a lawyer. His answer...

                                Parents have Joint Custody. Either can schedule an appointment for the child and take him to it on their time, as long as there are no treatments being done, without having to notify or receive consent from the other parent. Both parents do not need to be attending. Afterwards, the parent who took the child to the appointment should send an update to the other parent letting him/her know about the appointment and what was discussed, and provide contact information should that parent wish to confirm the info relayed, speak with the doctor, or schedule their own appointment on their time.

                                In cases where one parent is trying to impose rules or be controlling of the situation, the lawyer suggested to not notify that parent in advance, or provide same-day notice (e.g., morning of) as there is no legal obligation (unless court ordered) for parents to provide advanced notice prior for basic check-ups.

                                If one parent has an issue with the other parent taking the child for a simple check-up, that parent may take the issue to court and explain why the other parent should not be allowed to do so. The lawyer explained that "because I'm the mother" or "because I want to be there" are not valid reasons, especially in Joint Custody situations.

                                Just an FYI.

                                Comment

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