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Uncharted (at least for me) Settlement conference adjourned

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  • Uncharted (at least for me) Settlement conference adjourned

    In short:

    Separated 2009: joint custody and 50/50 access

    Divorced Legally 2012: joint custody and 50/50 shared access (OP had sought sole custody)

    September 2016: start of steady reduction in time spent with myself and two children


    Summer 2017: OP files for sole custody a second time


    Fall 2017: Court orders an assessment


    Spring 2018: Assessment supports continued shared custody and schedule to re-establish parenting time with myself (OP refuses)
    and continues seeking sole custody

    Here's the new territory.


    Fall 2018: Settlement conference. Court adjourns the proceedings and sets a new date, with the same Justice for two months later where the court wants a full report of what efforts have been made to re-establish (by way of reunification counselling), the previously existing relationships between the children and myself "as it is in the best interests of the children". If the court is not satisfied that such effort have been made and are supported by OP, leave will be granted to file a motion to seek the re-integration schedule presented by the OCL clinician as there exist "elements of both estrangement and alienation".

    I don't know if anyone else has found themselves in a similar situation, but I can't help but feel that the legal situation (completely separate from the reality of focusing on the quality of time I spend with our daughters), is moving in the right direction.


    If anyone has found themselves in a similar legal process, I would like to know, because I was not expecting this type of oversight from in the judicial process.


    If you have had a similar experience, in any way, it would be incredibly helpful to know what you learned or are learning now.


    Many thanks,

  • #2
    This is great news!! All your efforts to get reunified can now be worked on!

    Best to get everything documented. Starting tomorrow revisit your counseling and outreach work. Start sending emails to the ex on the counseling and other efforts. Get her denials in writing. Shes been told by a judge they want work done on reunifying you and now that they deny, it will be noted.

    Comment


    • #3
      And I have, and it is disheartening.

      I have received three responses from the five potentials I have reached out to. Only two are psychotherapists and the first is available in December. In response, OP said "great, but if it's not covered by insurance, I can't do it".


      Her is an interesting thing though, our daughters have just started showing up again. On the weekend I sat, arm around our 14 year old laughing at old home movies. Our 11 year old frantically took videos OF those old videos to post on her Instagram account. Today the younger just decided to come home her after school and we spent a couple of hours on homework, walking and talking, and snacks.

      It's so odd. It's as though when the constraints are off (maybe because OP can't legally afford to send the same messaging), they slip right back into where we always had been.

      It's hard to think that a legal bs war is being waged to end that.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Trix View Post
        And I have, and it is disheartening.

        I have received three responses from the five potentials I have reached out to. Only two are psychotherapists and the first is available in December. In response, OP said "great, but if it's not covered by insurance, I can't do it".


        Her is an interesting thing though, our daughters have just started showing up again. On the weekend I sat, arm around our 14 year old laughing at old home movies. Our 11 year old frantically took videos OF those old videos to post on her Instagram account. Today the younger just decided to come home her after school and we spent a couple of hours on homework, walking and talking, and snacks.

        It's so odd. It's as though when the constraints are off (maybe because OP can't legally afford to send the same messaging), they slip right back into where we always had been.

        It's hard to think that a legal bs war is being waged to end that.
        Trix, my situation is similar to yours, since our final order in 2015 my ex systematically interfered and manipulated the children to the point that now they both refuse to come for access. OCL accepted (for the 2nd time) to do afresh a custody and access assessment and recommended 50/50 time sharing for my son (6 years old) to protect his relationship with me due to mother's actions in distorting children's reality about me, while my daughter (12 years old) stopped coming for access since a year now. We had a long motion few months ago when the clinician was cross examined but we're still waiting for his judgement. All this time my access is seized by the alienator mother and my fear is that the longer takes for the judge to release his decision the more damage is done to my children's relationship with me. I'm kind of desperate now and really don't know what to do. Certainly my daughter needs a reunification therapy. These therapists are not cheap and my ex is resistant in having both children in therapy. Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

        Comment


        • #5
          I apologize for not having replied sooner. The truth is, I think you're somewhat ahead of where we are in that you have already gone to trial and have stellar recommendations from the OCL.

          The difficulty is watching the legal process run parallel to the reality of feeling like your children are slipping away.

          It is hard to trust that they will come back, but I do, I certainly do.

          I have court this afternoon and am a ball of nerves. This is what has come together though, and it looks like there is potential:

          As we sought reunification counselors, OP put no effort into it and only complained about the money that was involved. It took a letter from the lawyer to get her to participate. What occurred is this:

          My lawyer was preparing to request that the judge seize herself of the file to ensure that things, once established, moved forward. At the same time, OP and myself 'agreed' on a clinician for reunification counselling. After having spoken to myself and OP and both lawyers, the clinician stated that, for the stability of the children, she would only accept the file if:

          (1) the Judge seizes herself of the file where both lawyers request a 3rd settlement conference within six months to address matters of either parent failing to bring the children, interfering with the counselling in other ways, failing to pay for the counselling or unilaterally terminating the process

          (2) both parents agreed to provide all consents as requested

          (3) provide of all assessments and court orders

          (4) parents pay their respective shares of the counselling.

          I am indifferent about the money, but it was explained to me that it's just another means of forcing a bit of a buy in.

          I just didn't know this sort of request could be made. I was hoping for something of a timeline with oversight, but I was surprise to have the counselor request it and to such a seemingly higher degree than myself and my lawyer were looking for (her words were 'mechanism of consequence').

          I am not sure what would come of it in my case, but I was assured by the counselor and my lawyer that Family Courts will, depending on people power, do exactly what is being requested. So regardless of what happens with myself, you may want to consider seeing if you can't set up the same sort of re-unification counselling with judicial oversight.

          Comment


          • #6
            This is probably the best advice I can give (and it is just my advice), and it is also the hardest.

            If there has been manipulation and it has been strong enough that your 12yo has not come home in a year, then remember they are trapped. There is no easy out for them and they truly don't 'know better'. They may feel that something is off, but if everything they have been presented with suggests that not seeing you a lot (or at all) is ok (as per OP), they don't necessarily have another standard to work with.

            All that to say, don't 'get into it' with them, leave them clear of any frustration you may feel, because it's not them doing this. If you can manage to do that, then it will be that much easier for them to recall the positives of when you were together and move towards something along those lines.

            Again, that is from a dad who rarely sees one daughter, almost never sees the other and is right in the thick of the legal process.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Trix View Post
              I apologize for not having replied sooner. The truth is, I think you're somewhat ahead of where we are in that you have already gone to trial and have stellar recommendations from the OCL.

              The difficulty is watching the legal process run parallel to the reality of feeling like your children are slipping away.

              It is hard to trust that they will come back, but I do, I certainly do.

              I have court this afternoon and am a ball of nerves. This is what has come together though, and it looks like there is potential:

              As we sought reunification counselors, OP put no effort into it and only complained about the money that was involved. It took a letter from the lawyer to get her to participate. What occurred is this:

              My lawyer was preparing to request that the judge seize herself of the file to ensure that things, once established, moved forward. At the same time, OP and myself 'agreed' on a clinician for reunification counselling. After having spoken to myself and OP and both lawyers, the clinician stated that, for the stability of the children, she would only accept the file if:

              (1) the Judge seizes herself of the file where both lawyers request a 3rd settlement conference within six months to address matters of either parent failing to bring the children, interfering with the counselling in other ways, failing to pay for the counselling or unilaterally terminating the process

              (2) both parents agreed to provide all consents as requested

              (3) provide of all assessments and court orders

              (4) parents pay their respective shares of the counselling.

              I am indifferent about the money, but it was explained to me that it's just another means of forcing a bit of a buy in.

              I just didn't know this sort of request could be made. I was hoping for something of a timeline with oversight, but I was surprise to have the counselor request it and to such a seemingly higher degree than myself and my lawyer were looking for (her words were 'mechanism of consequence').

              I am not sure what would come of it in my case, but I was assured by the counselor and my lawyer that Family Courts will, depending on people power, do exactly what is being requested. So regardless of what happens with myself, you may want to consider seeing if you can't set up the same sort of re-unification counselling with judicial oversight.
              No worries Trix, thanks for the info. Yes waiting on judge's decision it's killing me while my ex continues to alienate the children, I only see them and talk to them for about 15-20 min every other Friday when I go their school to pick them up, but they refuse to go with me, it's breaking me down emotionally.

              I found a really good reunification therapist in my area but she told me that it's better to have a court order for reunification therapy and also custody should be reversed or at least the alienator not to contact the children in order for therapy to be efficient. Which court is your case? Here is my private email if you want to connect jeffysdivorce@gmail.com.

              Also I have some info to share with you if you're interested to change the legislation, we're trying to amend Bill C-78 in order to implement ESP equal and shared parenting as the presumptive start point in all divorces, it's in its 3rd reading now before the parliament and we want to reach out to as many MPs as possible. ESP is the only way to end "one parent" custody dictatorship. Let me know.

              Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

              Comment


              • #8
                Update,

                Our Settlement Conference was quick and productive (I hope).

                A reunification counsellor has been secured and the process will begin at the end of this month.

                The judge seized herself of the file for a period of 12 months.

                At the request of the counsellor, an updating settlement conference has also been set six months from now where the counsellor will provide an update as to progress made.

                Also, because the judge as seized the file, case management is in place, providing for monthly opportunities for the judge to address any concerns (should they arise) regarding any hindering of the process.

                It finally seems as though a framework exists that OP will have a hard time messing with.

                Now the hard and delicate part for our daughters, myself and the rest of this family.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Trix View Post
                  Update,

                  Our Settlement Conference was quick and productive (I hope).

                  A reunification counsellor has been secured and the process will begin at the end of this month.

                  The judge seized herself of the file for a period of 12 months.

                  At the request of the counsellor, an updating settlement conference has also been set six months from now where the counsellor will provide an update as to progress made.

                  Also, because the judge as seized the file, case management is in place, providing for monthly opportunities for the judge to address any concerns (should they arise) regarding any hindering of the process.

                  It finally seems as though a framework exists that OP will have a hard time messing with.

                  Now the hard and delicate part for our daughters, myself and the rest of this family.
                  I'm glad for you Trix, now you need to make sure that the therapy is successful, if mom continue on her alienation path then therapy is just a waste of time and money, it can actually make it worst. It's good that the judge seized herself, she wants to make sure there are no loose ends in your case.
                  I suggest you read this book, it will clarify the reunification therapy process and how to choose the right therapist:
                  "The high conflict custody battle" by Amy Baker.

                  Most likely our case will follow the same path, reunification therapy and periodic progress (or regres) including feedbacks from therapist to the court. My understanding is that for reunification therapy to be successful the alienator must have limited or supervised access with the children, but that's something to be determined by the therapist. Please keep in mind that not every counselor has the experience to deprogram an alienated child, as there are many out there who claims that.

                  Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ongoing efforts to alienate (or a general complacency at best) continue to be my greatest concern.

                    Luckily, this counselor is one who had been recommended by the court and who we were guided to by other professionals in the field who were not in a position to provide the service due to their current case load.

                    While she makes no promises, she seems to be well accredited and has been active in providing this sort of service for many years.

                    The reality remains that the process may not be successful, and there is little that can be done should OP decide to undermine the process.

                    I can only hope that the judicial oversight will provide enough of a deterrence for OP to back off to an extent and allow us to work back towards steady and healthy relationships.

                    I expect no miracles and continue to resign myself to the idea that I may be an -at-distance father for years to come. It is something of a crushing thought, but our daughters need me to be able to focus on being their father, not their hurt father who only pressures them.

                    This counselor states that she has no concern in voicing concerns about the process immediately should that occur. I hope that holds true.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Having monthly updates to a judge may benefit you more than you think. This means mom can’t deny time for six months before seeing a judge.

                      Get your appointments set up and communicated. Do whatever homework is required and focus on strategies for the kids. The counselor will also provide updates to the judge.

                      Know this, if mom cancels or impedes appointments on a regular basis the judge will see it.

                      This is fantastic news for you.

                      Comment

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