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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #11  
Old 04-15-2021, 05:40 PM
Kinso Kinso is offline
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Let me break in here to also add: if you are looking at something as minute as this clause to either justify filing an appeal (you had mentioned in earlier thread you were looking at appealing) or as an argument in that appeal, you may be shooting yourself in the foot.

It is a very bad move to try to argue elements of the law (or historical law) with a judge. You are not a lawyer and judges have devoted their career to it and were places on the bench (ostensibly) as a result of their work.
100%. My discussion above is primarily academic. It will have very little application to family court in 2021.
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  #12  
Old 04-15-2021, 07:07 PM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Originally Posted by Kinso View Post
100%. My discussion above is primarily academic. It will have very little application to family court in 2021.

I am always amazed when you try to educate on these types of things.
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  #13  
Old 04-16-2021, 11:05 AM
ottdiv ottdiv is offline
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Thanks for all your feedback. Kinso - I have been familiar with most of your last post - courts of chancery, Hall v Hebert etc.,



"You are not a lawyer" - yes I am not and I don't want to be one. I am much, much better than most lawyers. As well, one does not have to be a lawyer to make arguments on points of law.
Ex turpi causa is relevant in family law in 2021 and in the future as well. Not grounding one's cause of action on unlawful/illegal causes is trite law - as old as Hammurabi. 101, ABC of law.


Thanks
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  #14  
Old 04-16-2021, 11:38 AM
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I am much, much better than most lawyers.
I won't pretend one needs to be a lawyer to understand the law or or make intelligent legal submissions. But this is a pretty arrogant statement and I suggest you get beyond it. Pride goes before the fall. A great lawyer, even one better than most of their peers, would likely never say this. The necessity of humbleness is even more important when you do not have formal legal training. Hubris causes us to not challenge ourselves to a sufficient degree, leading to bad reasoning and flaws conclusions.

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Ex turpi causa is relevant in family law in 2021 and in the future as well
How? The references I gave you make clear that in Canada "Ex turipi" is an extremely narrow defense. I am curious how you foresee it being applied to family law. Other than extreme causes of spousal murder (where yes, one might argue you don't get property division if you killed your spouse)... I'd have a hard time coming up with an example one could successfully apply.
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Old 04-16-2021, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ottdiv View Post
I am much, much better than most lawyers.
Given that you are looking to appeal your ruling, I'm guessing that your current win rate is somewhere around 0%.

What makes you think that you are better than most lawyers? Not just some lawyers, but most lawyers... a bold statement.

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As well, one does not have to be a lawyer to make arguments on points of law. Ex turpi causa is relevant in family law in 2021 and in the future as well. Not grounding one's cause of action on unlawful/illegal causes is trite law - as old as Hammurabi. 101, ABC of law.
I would put even money on you eventually being designated as a vexatious litigant.
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  #16  
Old 04-17-2021, 09:58 AM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
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I ensured to familiarize myself with the relevant legislation so that I was well informed and knowledgeable for my own proceedings, even though I have a lawyer. I figure it saved me tons of money in not asking irrelevant questions, and knowing what is fair for me to fight for.

In Ontario, it is generally the Family Law Act (and Family Law Rules which is a Regulation under the Act), Children Law Reform Act, and Divorce Act (Federal). It is pretty cut and dry of how the law applies to separating spouses.

However, if you go into a Family Law court and start yammering about obscure legislation, you will only do 2 things:
1- Piss off the judge for wasting valuable court time; and
2- Give credence to any allegations made by your ex of you being "difficult" or "controling" for insisting on trying to be a know-it-all or have it your way. Judge may even grant sole custody to your ex on that very basis.
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  #17  
Old 04-18-2021, 09:02 AM
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Tayken Tayken is offline
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Hey Kisno... You haven't recognized who/what you are dealing with yet?

I suspect that this poster is treading on the edges of presenting their "knowledge" in the fun style of Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument (OPCA)...

Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Arguments as Magic and Ceremony, 2018 CanLIIDocs 90

We get a few a year here... Conserve your energy. They are Organized Pseudolegal Family Law Argument style...

Key point when to identify this kind of pseudolegal thinking is when the poster out-right says they know more than most (or all) lawyers.
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  #18  
Old 04-18-2021, 10:17 AM
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Oh its for sure freeman/OPCA nonsense. But you never know who else might read these posts. Ottdiv is likely a lost cause, but casual readers might be sucked into the nonsense.
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  #19  
Old 04-18-2021, 11:08 AM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
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Originally Posted by Kinso View Post
Ottdiv is likely a lost cause
I know I would love to be a spectator in the courtroom when Ottdiv brings up his irrelevant legislation in a family court case. Will get called out for wasting courts time, he will get visibly irritated, ex will say he is difficult to communicate deal with, and ex will be granted sole custody of kids on that basis.
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  #20  
Old 04-18-2021, 12:51 PM
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I recommend anyone trying some obscure argument to go into canlii and search for the keywords in that site. If nothing comes up then it was either unsuccessful or not tried.

I also suggest for those attempting an appeal like this poster, go into their provincial court of appeal on canlii and search the relevant family law cases paying specific attention to the introductory portion of the case record where they outline the judges reasoning. Appeals are a long shot as they dont always agree to hear them and are also an even longer shot for obscure legal arguments. If they do take the case, its normally to smack down the person arrogant enough to try to educate the bench on law.


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