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Divorce & Family Law This forum is for discussing any of the legal issues involved in your divorce.

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  #1  
Old 05-27-2022, 10:30 AM
helenj helenj is offline
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Default Final Order Does not Make Sense

Hi all,

So I got a final order for every other weekend with a twist:

the only time that visits do not have to be supervised is during the day outside the home. That is to say, that if I am with the children during the day in the community (shopping mall, park, etc.) there is no supervision requirement. However, at any time that I am in any home that does not constitute in the community, I am to be to be supervised by a family member.

This has been built into a permanent order, and no step-up schedule to remove the supervision.

Does this make sense? Is this something that can be appealed?

There are no allegations of sexual abuse or drugs. There are allegations that I get stressed out and may physically discipline the child, which I deny. But nevertheless, how does this get built into a final order?

What can be done?
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Old 05-27-2022, 10:49 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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The judge had a reason to believe you need supervision. You can deny it all you want but in the end, the evidence at trial was enough to warrant a decision for supervision. It does make sense. In public there are witnesses. At home there are not.

Do what it says and in a couple years demonstrate a material change in the sense that you have had x days where nothing happened.

Or you can appeal it showing all the evidence why it isnt going to happen and pay the costs to go through that. The problem is you pleaded out and that in addition to whatever evidence was presented at trial was enough to make the judge put this in the order.

You really need to get it through your head that something (or several somethings) happened and were proven in court that resulted in this decision.
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Old 05-28-2022, 02:31 PM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
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I hope you are doing well.
You did the trial and got a ruling, I suppose there is a paper saying why the judge ruled the way they did?

Never the less the judge found a reason to state supervision is required and no one here can say why they put that in. It is a positive thing that they say you do not need supervision out in the community which is better than some where a judge states they need supervision 24/7. I know someone that went through that and in the end it was demonstrated that they did not need any supervision.

There are many things that you can do but from reading your posts is sounds like the best thing you can do is get your mental health in check and let time pass. 1-3 years? Time is a material change and that will allow you to bring something new to the table.

After being compelled to be outdoors for a ton of time you might turn into some super parent. Picnics, fishing, the beach, hiking. if you can pull that off then you might be better off and also....that super parent thing sounds pretty good.

There was an allegation of physicality and I am going to take a guess you presented as a wildcard to the judge and they erred on the side of caution. Prove them wrong I suppose. Let it be said later on by anyone that supervised you that they had no perception of something being off.

You have a lawyer, what did they say?
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Old 05-30-2022, 09:32 AM
helenj helenj is offline
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Thank you for all your replies. I will take both of your suggestions. The problem is, I just see this turning into an issue where my ex is questioning the kids if a supervisor was home, and getting the kids to say 'no', and then reducing/denying access as a result.

My lawyer is looking to see if there is an opportunity to appeal it. He will let me know sometime this week.
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Old 05-30-2022, 09:51 AM
rockscan rockscan is offline
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Who cares what she asks them. Its no different than saying who did you see at daddys house? Or the kids may voluntarily tell her. YOU have an issue with it because you dont want to have supervision. Its no different than having gramma come over and see her at daddys house etc. If you have someone there then there is no issue for you. You just dont like the order.

Unfortunately you need to suck it up and accept your new reality.
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Old 05-30-2022, 09:57 AM
Brampton33 Brampton33 is offline
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In fairness to OP, supervised access is usually meant to be temporary and last resort.

Its ordered for 2 reasons. As a means to facilitate reunification where there has been an absence; or where there is a perceived possibility of harm or negligent behaviour (ie: substance abuse).

Usually there is a graduated weening off of supervised access. Surprised that was not built into the order; or at least; an opportunity at some point to re-visit if it is still deemed necessary.
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Old 05-30-2022, 09:57 AM
pinkHouses pinkHouses is offline
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Your ex cannot do that. It would require a court order and an investigation.
If your lawyer doesn't have a definitive answer for you then I would not go on their "I think this might work", it will cost a ton of money.
I would have thought a clause in there saying this item could be revisited at time X might have made its way in there, maybe simply the passing of time allows the revisit.

Solution: Be vigilant about keeping a journal and having the other person sign it daily. Take selfie with supervisor and email them to yourself with timestamps daily or at least often, you will sleep better at night knowing you are safe. Be positive about it you want to alleviate the courts concern of your stability/behavior.

Take parenting classes, this is a must from what you described.

Don't let the kids catch on to this at all.
Don't record yourself inside the house with the kids for this purpose, not at all as I have seen 24/7 internal security footage be labeled as a mental health issue.

This journal and record will also help you with court later on as it will go along way to show you endured this well and are stable.

I am not a a lawyer, others can comment on this logic.

Last edited by pinkHouses; 05-30-2022 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 05-31-2022, 05:16 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkHouses View Post
Time is a material change and that will allow you to bring something new to the table.
No, it's not. There is case law that says the mere passage of time does not constitute a material change.
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Old 05-31-2022, 05:18 PM
iona6656 iona6656 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brampton33 View Post
In fairness to OP, supervised access is usually meant to be temporary and last resort.

Its ordered for 2 reasons. As a means to facilitate reunification where there has been an absence; or where there is a perceived possibility of harm or negligent behaviour (ie: substance abuse).

Usually there is a graduated weening off of supervised access. Surprised that was not built into the order; or at least; an opportunity at some point to re-visit if it is still deemed necessary.
nope. Not always.

If the courts think the parent isn't stable enough- they can and sometimes do order indefinite supervised access.

What the OP will need to do is get help. Document that they got help and prove they are no longer a threat.
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Old 05-31-2022, 05:25 PM
StillPaying StillPaying is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iona6656 View Post
No, it's not. There is case law that says the mere passage of time does not constitute a material change.
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/do...20oncj497.html

Quote:
the aging of the child from 3 to 7, the father’s increased ability to meet her needs, the father’s consistent exercise of time, and the close relationship he developed with the child.
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