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  • #31
    Originally posted by trueblue22 View Post
    I thought if I couldn't support myself at the same standard of living my ex would need to maintain the lifestyle?
    Think of divorce of splitting the gains and losses from a marriage. Some hypotheticals to illustrate:

    Case 1

    The wife would have been earning $120k per year, but because she dropped out of the workforce to raise the kids, she is only earning $40k per year. There is a loss of 80k per year from this mutual decision that was made by both the wife and the husband. It is not fair for the wife to take the entire amount of that loss, and so spousal support is ordered to share the loss between the two.

    Note: Most decisions taken during a marriage are mutual, even unilateral decisions. If your spouse is making a bad decision, get divorced quickly.


    ******************

    Case 2

    The husband earns $250k per year. However, if the husband had helped to raise the child instead of flying all over the world for business, he would have only been earning about $150k per year. This extra 100k in income every year (that the husband can earn for the rest of his life) is an asset, and a gain from the marriage. This asset needs to be split, so spousal support is ordered to split the asset that is the income stream.

    ***************

    Case 3

    Husband and wife both earn 100k. Husband gets sick and can no longer work, so his income drops to 20k. While nobody was to blame here, the loss occurred during the marriage, and needs to be split. Spousal support is ordered to share the loss between the two.



    **************


    Note, in all these cases, the person with less income usually is not fully compensated. If your income is $80k lower for life, and you have 25 years of working life left, you are going to get much less than $2million in spousal support. It was more the concept that I was explaining, not the numbers.

    In your particular situation, you are probably more like Case 4:

    Case 4

    Husband earns a lot more than the wife. A lot lot more. Spousal support might be ordered because the wife has "need". It probably won't be forever, and it can easily be stopped. Expect lots of court cases in the near future

    *****************

    The problem here is that you gave up a good income, and your current income is a bit nebulous. You might be hard-pressed to show need.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by StillPaying View Post
      You are following an agreement, so retroactive is unlikely.

      Whether you're imputed 50k or 150k, you'll either receive 12k or 9k a month in support. Stop wasting time and listen to your lawyer.
      There is no agreement regarding finances just for a schedule for the kids. With no agreement isn't all the money he pays for bills, etc considered only child support? Does that mean my ex hasn't been paying me any spousal support? Does that mean retroactive is more likely if that's the case? But does that also mean I will need to reimburse him for 4 years of section 7 expenses?

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Janus View Post
        Think of divorce of splitting the gains and losses from a marriage. Some hypotheticals to illustrate:

        Case 1

        The wife would have been earning $120k per year, but because she dropped out of the workforce to raise the kids, she is only earning $40k per year. There is a loss of 80k per year from this mutual decision that was made by both the wife and the husband. It is not fair for the wife to take the entire amount of that loss, and so spousal support is ordered to share the loss between the two.

        Note: Most decisions taken during a marriage are mutual, even unilateral decisions. If your spouse is making a bad decision, get divorced quickly.


        ******************

        Case 2

        The husband earns $250k per year. However, if the husband had helped to raise the child instead of flying all over the world for business, he would have only been earning about $150k per year. This extra 100k in income every year (that the husband can earn for the rest of his life) is an asset, and a gain from the marriage. This asset needs to be split, so spousal support is ordered to split the asset that is the income stream.

        ***************

        Case 3

        Husband and wife both earn 100k. Husband gets sick and can no longer work, so his income drops to 20k. While nobody was to blame here, the loss occurred during the marriage, and needs to be split. Spousal support is ordered to share the loss between the two.



        **************


        Note, in all these cases, the person with less income usually is not fully compensated. If your income is $80k lower for life, and you have 25 years of working life left, you are going to get much less than $2million in spousal support. It was more the concept that I was explaining, not the numbers.

        In your particular situation, you are probably more like Case 4:

        Case 4

        Husband earns a lot more than the wife. A lot lot more. Spousal support might be ordered because the wife has "need". It probably won't be forever, and it can easily be stopped. Expect lots of court cases in the near future

        *****************

        The problem here is that you gave up a good income, and your current income is a bit nebulous. You might be hard-pressed to show need.
        After paying out my employees including my ex boyfriend their salaries there isn't much left. My new business was just picking up steam at the end of 2019 but then the pandemic happened so I am now struggling. Does it matter I will be struggling? I read that spousal support if my ex makes more than 150k is more "flexible" so how reliable are the free spousal support calculators?

        Comment


        • #34
          Few points you need to keep in mind:

          1. It doesnt matter if your ex paid you directly or the expenses. He still paid a certain amount monthly and that can be applied to what he should have paid.

          2. You direct your lawyer, not the other way around. The more aggressive your lawyer the less likely the settlement and the more money you end up spending.

          3. You need to get your details and your shit straight. You just posted ex boyfriend but said he was your boyfriend.

          4. You need a plan b and c. Your ex is trying to cut the cord and he has a right to do that. You have to prepare yourself for the worst case scenario in case it happens.


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          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by trueblue22 View Post
            There is no agreement regarding finances just for a schedule for the kids. With no agreement isn't all the money he pays for bills, etc considered only child support? Does that mean my ex hasn't been paying me any spousal support? Does that mean retroactive is more likely if that's the case? But does that also mean I will need to reimburse him for 4 years of section 7 expenses?

            There is a lot I want to say about this thread but it’s been addressed by others, but this point here... he would only have to pay X amount in Child Support... if he paid more then it would go towards Spousal Support... if you’re trying to say he owes you full SS because all his payments were for CS, then you’d have to pay him back for that overpayment. You don’t get full SS and more than your share of CS...

            You should probably hire and listen to a lawyer because you’re a mess and not really listening to the advice here


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            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by rockscan View Post
              Few points you need to keep in mind:

              1. It doesnt matter if your ex paid you directly or the expenses. He still paid a certain amount monthly and that can be applied to what he should have paid.

              2. You direct your lawyer, not the other way around. The more aggressive your lawyer the less likely the settlement and the more money you end up spending.

              3. You need to get your details and your shit straight. You just posted ex boyfriend but said he was your boyfriend.

              4. You need a plan b and c. Your ex is trying to cut the cord and he has a right to do that. You have to prepare yourself for the worst case scenario in case it happens.


              Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
              1. What about taxes? I know that spousal support means I need to pay taxes - so do I get dinged on 4 years of support that if he overpaid?

              2. I scheduled for a consult with some lawyers. They all seem very interested since I told them my ex makes 500k+ a year as an accountant.

              3. Sorry I think I was thinking about my ex. My boyfriend is still with the company. My ex knows minimal information about the company and keeps asking for detailed ledgers but since he's an accountant I feel like he would try to misinterpret the data to benefit him.

              4. Is my worst case scenario no more spousal support and just child support?

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Berner_Faith View Post
                There is a lot I want to say about this thread but it�s been addressed by others, but this point here... he would only have to pay X amount in Child Support... if he paid more then it would go towards Spousal Support... if you�re trying to say he owes you full SS because all his payments were for CS, then you�d have to pay him back for that overpayment. You don�t get full SS and more than your share of CS...

                You should probably hire and listen to a lawyer because you�re a mess and not really listening to the advice here


                Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                What if he was underpaying spousal and child support? Does that mean I can request a retroactive "top up"?

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by trueblue22 View Post
                  1. What about taxes? I know that spousal support means I need to pay taxes - so do I get dinged on 4 years of support that if he overpaid?
                  No because he wasnt paying spousal so you didnt have to claim it.

                  2. I scheduled for a consult with some lawyers. They all seem very interested since I told them my ex makes 500k+ a year as an accountant.
                  Of course they are. They want a long drawn out fight that earns them lots of money. Be wary of a lawyer who blows smoke up your ass. They still get paid whether or not you get anything.

                  3. Sorry I think I was thinking about my ex. My boyfriend is still with the company. My ex knows minimal information about the company and keeps asking for detailed ledgers but since he's an accountant I feel like he would try to misinterpret the data to benefit him.
                  He has a right to the financials. Regardless of what the “minimal information” is, you have a business, it earns a certain amount, that can be applied as your income to calculate support both child and spousal. Hiding info or refusing it makes you look bad and only escalates the increased payments to your lawyer. Hand over the info.

                  4. Is my worst case scenario no more spousal support and just child support?
                  Yes and sale of matrimonial home it seems.


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                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by trueblue22 View Post
                    What if he was underpaying spousal and child support? Does that mean I can request a retroactive "top up"?

                    No because you were following an agreement.

                    Look, you are digging a deeper hole for yourself by trying to avoid the inevitable. Your ex isnt your personal bank account who has to give you what you want. Plus child support is for the kids not to subsidize your income. You really need to take a hard look at your life and also the law. You really should go looking through some cases on canlii.org. See where the decisions fell in cases similar to yours. Hand him over you financial disclosure, do your math on what he paid vs what he owed, figure what the amount of spousal and timeline you were entitled to, figure out your share of the home and then make a deal. The longer you drag this out the more you lose.


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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                      No because you were following an agreement.

                      Look, you are digging a deeper hole for yourself by trying to avoid the inevitable. Your ex isnt your personal bank account who has to give you what you want. Plus child support is for the kids not to subsidize your income. You really need to take a hard look at your life and also the law. You really should go looking through some cases on canlii.org. See where the decisions fell in cases similar to yours. Hand him over you financial disclosure, do your math on what he paid vs what he owed, figure what the amount of spousal and timeline you were entitled to, figure out your share of the home and then make a deal. The longer you drag this out the more you lose.


                      Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

                      Wish there was “like” buttons


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                      • #41
                        100% with everything Rockscan said.

                        The house.....its either you buy him out and get yourself approved for a mortgage without his name on it, or you move. Based on what I read, you will need to move. Who cares if he will be able to buy a house soon after? With his salary, that is to be expected.

                        Children....it will be joint custody and 50/50 parenting. Do not try to claw back his time to increase your supports. That will bite you hard in court. The kids are allowed equal time with both parents.

                        Supports..... quit stalling. It is obvious you are stalling to delay the inevitable. You do need to fill out a Financial Statement and account for your business. You may get imputed.

                        Not sure if others have said this, but it is strongly recommended to seek therapy or counselling to adjust to your new reality. You have a new boyfriend, but seem all up in arms on how negative your life is (or will be) by virtue of your ex-husband no longer having financial ties to you. You mentioned you sought advice from friends.....they are not lawyers, nor necessarily people who have been through the family court trenches, and will simply be biased to your views and nod their heads with everything and anything you say.
                        Last edited by LovingDad1234; 12-10-2020, 04:00 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by rockscan View Post
                          No because you were following an agreement.

                          Look, you are digging a deeper hole for yourself by trying to avoid the inevitable. Your ex isnt your personal bank account who has to give you what you want. Plus child support is for the kids not to subsidize your income. You really need to take a hard look at your life and also the law. You really should go looking through some cases on canlii.org. See where the decisions fell in cases similar to yours. Hand him over you financial disclosure, do your math on what he paid vs what he owed, figure what the amount of spousal and timeline you were entitled to, figure out your share of the home and then make a deal. The longer you drag this out the more you lose.


                          Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
                          There is no agreement though unless you are saying there is an "implied" agreement that I accepted he paid the bills and the unilateral amount he decided was sufficient amounts of child support.

                          I did do a search on canlii but I can't find similar situations. It just seems like if he wants to kick me out from my home and make me sell then he can do it very easily. I can't afford a three bedroom condo or house in Toronto. I would need to move over an hour or 1.5 away from my children's private school.

                          Why would I lose if I drag this out? He's being forced to pay rent and no bank will let him get a mortgage since he already has one to pay for the house I am living in. Isn't this my best case scenario right now?

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by LovingDad1234 View Post
                            100% with everything Rockscan said.

                            The house.....its either you buy him out and get yourself approved for a mortgage without his name on it, or you move. Based on what I read, you will need to move. Who cares if he will be able to buy a house soon after? With his salary, that is to be expected.

                            Children....it will be joint custody and 50/50 parenting. Do not try to claw back his time to increase your supports. That will bite you hard in court. The kids are allowed equal time with both parents.

                            Supports..... quit stalling. It is obvious you are stalling to delay the inevitable. You do need to fill out a Financial Statement and account for your business. You may get imputed.

                            Not sure if others have said this, but it is strongly recommended to seek therapy or counselling to adjust to your new reality. You have a new boyfriend, but seem all up in arms on how negative your life is (or will be) by virtue of your ex-husband no longer having financial ties to you. You mentioned you sought advice from friends.....they are not lawyers, nor necessarily people who have been through the family court trenches, and will simply be biased to your views and nod their heads with everything and anything you say.
                            The house I live in is worth around 2.5 million dollars. I can't get a mortgage high enough to buy him out and I don't think he can buy me out either. Since our expenses were very high during the marriage due to a disability one of my children have I would only receive around 300k after the mortgage and debts of the marriage have been paid off.

                            My new boyfriend is great and we have been together for over 3 years now. I met him a few months after my husband left me but he does not earn nearly enough for me and my kids to have the same standard of living my ex provided. My boyfriend was (and still is) also behind on child support payments for his kids so I also need to consider that as well.

                            I don't think I am being selfish by wanting to maintain the best standard of living for myself and my kids. I just don't think it's fair my ex husband will be able to wash his hands of me and not care that I can't afford to take them on vacation or buy them nice things.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              There is no agreement though unless you are saying there is an "implied" agreement that I accepted he paid the bills and the unilateral amount he decided was sufficient amounts of child support.
                              You are assuming he made unilateral decisions. You refused to sell so he had to make decision. He could have spoken to a lawyer who told him what to pay. He may have been paying more than he was supposed to. Or he could have been paying all the spousal he was required in these four years. Have you done those math calculations yet? Better get to it.

                              I did do a search on canlii but I can't find similar situations.
                              It takes hours and days to dive through canlii. Your efforts werent enough.

                              It just seems like if he wants to kick me out from my home and make me sell then he can do it very easily. I can't afford a three bedroom condo or house in Toronto. I would need to move over an hour or 1.5 away from my children's private school.
                              He wants to sell property he is invested in. Stop making this about poor you. You are in business, you understand you had a contract with him and it ended. He wants to complete the contract and sell all the outstanding assets.
                              Your ex is also not responsible for your finances anymore. If you were worried about this you should have been saving for this inevitability years ago. Instead you thought of yourself and your needs.
                              If you have to rent then you have to rent. There are thousands of other parents who survive with much less than you because they put their kids above their own needs.

                              Why would I lose if I drag this out? He's being forced to pay rent and no bank will let him get a mortgage since he already has one to pay for the house I am living in. Isn't this my best case scenario right now?
                              Because you lose legal fees and possibly his costs as well when you end up losing (with this attitude it is inevitable). If you don’t have approximately $100,000 liquid assets right now then you need to smarten up and settle.

                              The house I live in is worth around 2.5 million dollars. I can't get a mortgage high enough to buy him out and I don't think he can buy me out either. Since our expenses were very high during the marriage due to a disability one of my children have I would only receive around 300k after the mortgage and debts of the marriage have been paid off.
                              A judge won’t care about any of this. The fact is he wants to sell, you don’t. He has a right to complete the final aspects of your relationship. You refuse to accept it. You can’t afford the house, it must be sold. Period.

                              he does not earn nearly enough for me and my kids to have the same standard of living my ex provided. My boyfriend was (and still is) also behind on child support payments for his kids so I also need to consider that as well.
                              So you have found someone new to pay your way. Should have asked for a tax return on your first date! If you want a man to pay your way through life then you did this wrong. Not only that but you are also preventing him from supporting his kids. You really are a selfish low life.

                              I don't think I am being selfish by wanting to maintain the best standard of living for myself and my kids. I just don't think it's fair my ex husband will be able to wash his hands of me and not care that I can't afford to take them on vacation or buy them nice things.
                              You are selfish. You are incredibly self centered and self absorbed. This isn’t about your kids at all. This is about you and what you want.

                              Berner is right, you are a hot mess.


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                              • #45
                                OP - you really need to stick to your lawyer's advice. Ignorant comments masked in arrogance won't help you. You may be able to stay longer in the matrimonial house but we wouldn't know. You haven't done anything wrong yet, but you need to analyze your opinions.

                                Is it better to have the house a few more years or all the support money in hand? What is your goal here?

                                The longer you wait, the more money you'll lose. Spousal can run out before you get the cash, home prices will keep going up, and lawyers and court fees will cost more.

                                You're looking at $300-$400k in equalization and 10k+ a month in support. Change may be scary, but you'll be able to buy a house and move on no problem. Make a reasonable offer then go to court.

                                Comment

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