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  • Ex is claiming Undue Hardship...

    So I have filed a Motion to Vary a 12 year old CS order.
    My ex has never provided financial disclosure. There was nothing in our useless Order that stated that he had to. He has never paid anything towards s.7 expenses. Again, not mentioned in the original order.

    He pays $125/mnth.

    According to him, he should be paying $304/mnth, but I know he is hiding some income. But that is neither here nor there.

    I made a claim for retoractive CS back to August 2005, which was the last time I spoke to him before he disappeared again.

    He is claiming Undue Hardship....

    I offered to drop the retroactive claim, and go back only to July 2007 when was the first time I made a written request for financial disclosure (found him on Facebook ).

    Question: Can he bring forth an argument for Undue Hardship without providing ANY financial disclosure/tax returns??

    He wants my my and husbands past 3 years income tax returns.... but should I not get his and his spouses first?

  • #2
    He doesn't have a prayer in hell. No CS for years, and NOW he claims hardship?

    Can he bring forth an argument for Undue Hardship without providing ANY financial disclosure/tax returns??

    He wants my my and husbands past 3 years income tax returns.... but should I not get his and his spouses first?
    "He" doesn't get jack squat. If he's claiming undue hardship, he'd have to submit a complete financial disclosure for both himself as well as any new partner. (as do you). This information is either submitted to the lawyers, or to the judge. The standard of living between each househould has to be a substantial difference for any such claim to go through. "Substantial" is up to the discretion of the judge.

    By not paying what he's supposed to now, or contributing to his share of special expenses, he's basically shot himself in the foot.

    Comment


    • #3
      He must submit all of his household financial information first, and you would be asked to do the same. My understanding is that he would first have to prove that paying the table amount of CS or retroactive CS would not only cause him financial hardhsip, but undue hardship - as in can't afford to live if he pays the CS. If the judge decides he has a case then they will compare the standards of living of the two households. I am going through a very similar situation, except my ex was supposed to submit his tax return each year but refused. Good luck to you!

      Comment


      • #4
        Why should his spouse's income have anything to do with this? It's between you and him...just like your spouse shouldn't be involved. I will go to hell before I'd ever show a tax return of my information to my husband's ex girlfriend.

        As a stepparent, I pick up the pieces in my family. After my husband pays a huge chunk of CS (which he's always paid and more) 65% of the so called extra costs, all of the tutoring, the gas to cover the 5 hours on the road back and forth to get the kid, benefits, life insurance, etc etc etc the list goes on to birth mother and her husband, he has nothing left of his cheque. So I work extra.....freelancing and so forth however I do it to keep a roof over our heads, a safe haven for my kid and stepson and keep the family together. But as for BM accessing my info, THAT IS NONE OF HER BUSINESS. And shouldn't be yours either in your situation.

        Comment


        • #5
          and also....my husband did submit a financial to the court, it was fair, we had receipts and statements of all expenses, there was nothing to hide and the judge threw it aside and stated it's based on your annual salary before deductions.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by iwannarock View Post
            Why should his spouse's income have anything to do with this? It's between you and him...just like your spouse shouldn't be involved. I will go to hell before I'd ever show a tax return of my information to my husband's ex girlfriend.
            Well then.. for your sake, hopefully your husband never makes a claim undue hardship, or you'll be headed straight to Hades!

            Originally posted by iwannarock View Post
            But as for BM accessing my info, THAT IS NONE OF HER BUSINESS. And shouldn't be yours either in your situation.
            Simmer down Prozac......

            No offense, but maybe you should do some research before you shoot your mouth off?

            When HE brought forward HIS claim for UNDUE HARDSHIP, HE brought HER income into the equation.... NOT ME!

            The courts MUST now look at the entire, combined HOUSEHOLD INCOME to compare the standards of living in each..... so my husbands income is brought into the mix as well.

            THATS THE LAW! Maybe you should try reading Section 10 of the Federal Child Support Guidelines as well as Schedule II of the same.

            Thanks for your unenlightened reply!

            Comment


            • #7
              Go ahead and quote whatever section you want. We've been to court and my financial information wasn't even included and birth mother's husband's wasn't either. The judge just looked up the table....said...father you pay this, mother you get this, and based on what mother makes and what father makes, it's a 65/35 split on all other items except father you must pay all benefits and life insurance. And by the way ...new wife....we don't care about your new kid so I suggest you figure out how you're going to raise this kid without your husband's support because we only care about kid #1. And new husband, your wife is getting a raise...congratulations.

              The courts NEVER looked at the standards of living in each household...which is why birth mother is now renovating her home with the child support money.Never asked why their non court agreement was good for 11 years.

              Don't get so snooty....I never said CS shouldn't be paid....my husband has always paid it, used to have the kid 50% of the time, and paid guideline and more for what he made each year.

              We add to our family, husband gets a better job, gets taken to court because of new baby arrival so goes after full custody and has access cut to every other weekend instead and then more money goes to birth mother. We desperately miss having first kid 50% of the time and believe me the phone calls don't make up for the time we now miss out on.
              Last edited by iwannarock; 03-03-2010, 12:22 PM. Reason: cause I wanted to

              Comment


              • #8
                "Well then.. for your sake, hopefully your husband never makes a claim undue hardship, or you'll be headed straight to Hades!


                We've been to family court, why would we ever want to do that again? No use fighting a losing battle in our case.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by iwannarock View Post
                  Go ahead and quote whatever section you want. We've been to court and my financial information wasn't even included and birth mother's husband's wasn't either. The judge just looked up the table....said...father you pay this, mother you get this, and based on what mother makes and what father makes, it's a 65/35 split on all other items except father you must pay all benefits and life insurance.
                  I've been through court as well.... 3 times. And THIS time he claimed Undue Hardship.

                  If he hadn't, then CS, s7 etc. would have been dealt with exactly as you described.

                  That is NOT the case here.... hence the Household Standard of Living Comparison.

                  Originally posted by iwannarock View Post
                  The courts NEVER looked at the standards of living in each household...
                  THAT'S because your husband DID NOT claim UNDUE HARDSHIP.

                  Originally posted by iwannarock View Post
                  We add to our family, husband gets a better job, gets taken to court because of new baby arrival so goes after full custody in retaliation and has access cut to every other weekend instead and then more money goes to birth mother. We desperately miss having first kid 50% of the time and believe me the phone calls don't make up for the time we now miss out on.
                  Hey, I feel for your situation... but it has NOTHING to do with mine... not even remotely comparable.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry it just pisses me off that the spouses would even have to get involved at all. Law or no law....I am new to this so sorry for wasting your time. Not too sure why all "i's" and "T's" weren't crossed twelve years ago. Maybe it wasn't law then.....maybe it was. Sorry it's leaving you in such a disaster situation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Undue hardship is one of the ONLY times that a new spouse/partner's income can be brought into the mix. This is only because an undue hardship claim analyzes the household standard of living and compares the two.

                      The only other time I've ever HEARD of a new partner's income being brought into things is if the ex is intentionally unemployed and allowing the new spouse/partner to support them in order to avoid paying CS. In that particular case, you can argue for CS being paid based off the NDI of the household, not the bio-parent's income alone.

                      Other than those two scenarios, new partner's/etc have NO bearing on cs/ss payments.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        So confused....

                        I am unemployed and have been for almost 6 years (SAHM). The only income I have is the $125/mnth that my ex is supposed to pay in CS.

                        I filled out my Financial Statement but I have no income to declare, and no assets in my name. My husband is the sole owner of everything that we have, (house, vehicles, ATV's, Boat.....EVERYTHING).

                        So basically the Financial Statement is blank.

                        When I filed for the Motion to Vary, I basically filed/served a blank Form 13, but under the section for "Other Income Earners in the Home", I declared my husbands gross annual income and stated that he pays 100% of the household expenses.

                        When ex received same Financial Statement, he began claiming Undue Hardship and demanded my husbands past 3 years income tax returns and full disclosure of off of my husbands assets/personal proerty.

                        Even though my ex has not provided ANY financial disclosure at all, no Financial Statement, Tax Returns... nothing!

                        Questions:

                        Due to the fact that my ex is claiming undue hardship, does my husband have to fill out a Financial Statement, or do I just continue to declare his annual income and state that he pays 100% of the expenses in the Form 13 - Schedule B form???

                        What difference does it make how much my husbands personal assets/bank accounts/savings... are worth? I can't find any law that says that he has to declare these things to my ex???

                        Do I wait until the ex gives me his financial disclosure, or should I just hand this stuff over, or do I wait until the Judge orders us to provide same?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Your husband doesn't have to give him any valuation of assets. It's based off income/deductions, house/cars/etc aren't included in the worksheets....the step by step calculations and instructions for child suport, including undue hardship claims are found here:

                          The Federal Child Support Guidelines: Step-by-Step

                          Specifically you want to look at these:

                          http://canada.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/f...eet-feuil.html

                          Every income earner in BOTH households has to complete the Worksheet1 (and be able to back it up with supporting documentation). You would need to complete a Worksheet2 (noting in your responding document that he has contributed 0 to special expenses and therefore the entire amount has been carried by YOUR household).

                          Then you fill out a worksheet3, and he fills out a worksheet3 and you compare the numbers. The difference has to be HUGE (My standard of living was 50% LOWER than my ex's and my lawyer told me to save my money). It's totally up to the discretion of the judge.

                          You don't have to give your ex anything until he actually files the application and serves you with it. (When he does, he has to include HIS financials and that of his spouse, with supporting documentation.)

                          "If you live in Canada or the United States you must provide the documents within 30 days of the application being served."

                          Basically when he files his motion to vary the CS due to undue hardship, you have 30 days to file a response, which should include YOUR financials, with supporting documentation.

                          He's screwed hardcore...he's not paying table amounts, heck he isn't paying the initial amounts....he's not paying his share of special expenses, so when you respond, request that his CS payments be increased to table amounts and request retro CS as well as costs.
                          Last edited by NBDad; 03-04-2010, 09:30 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Ok, so I will file my updated Form 13, and past 3 years Income Tax returns. But I don't own any assets and I am a SAHM, so my Form 13 will be blank... does my new husband have to file one as well?

                            With the section 7 expenses, I've never kept any receipts for her summer camps/swimming lessons/soccer etc. and she hasn't been in daycare for 5 years. We finally got medical benefits in 2005, and it covers 80% of her dental. No medical problems so she rarely needs prescriptions and doesn't wear glasses.
                            So basically I don't think that I have any retro section 7 expenses to claim.

                            Going forward.... how do I write my request for his proportionate share of section 7??

                            I was thinking a 50/50 split, since I don't have an income, and I don't think it is fair that her step-father should have to pay more than that. He has paid 100% for the past 6 years.....

                            Any thoughts/suggestions?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Has he served you with the paperwork for his motion to vary based on undue hardship?

                              ALL income earners in the household have to have their paperwork in order. Is he filing an "undue hardship" claim or simply a motion to vary?

                              Offer 50-50 split of special expenses, since you are a SAHM, that's more than fair to him, as otherwise he's going to be covering like 90% or more of them.

                              Comment

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