Child support deductions: Car mileage/travel for visits

[roxyroller71]

Breakdown:
I agreed to deduct child support for business car expenses (no amount set) and travel to visit his son set to $7,500.

That's in the parenting agreement and through out have stated I want to see valid receipts.

Now we are coming to the draft of the final order a year later, child support has changed and yes I want to see receipts.
What we agreed last year with the parenting agreement was based on a fictions amount he made that was ridiculously lower by over $30,000.
His income now is disclosed at a much much higher amount that he keeps avoiding bringing in the financial statements.
I know for the car expenses it's on line 34 in T4.
As to his travel costs: no receipts given since that are not out of pocket. What he had submitted years ago was his companies expenses and travel. All listing his company as paying.

I'm again at this cross road at calculating his child support
He makes in Quebec $164800.00.
Minus what?
And since he fails to present receipts or evidence of this....what do I accept as reasonable?

And how do I need to handle this in the agreement as we are finalizing?
Asking for deductions only Upon submitting receipts year for analysis?

I'm trying to be reasonable BUT I hate having someone play me for a fool over and over, having this guy constantly lie and hide from paying for his son. This is someone who tells his son that he can't buy him some little trinket because he forgot his wallet, and refuses to help raise his son.


Any suggestions or help is appreciated.
Thanks!

[roxyroller71]

An update:

My ex states that his car expense is 8,000 anticipated and travel is 7500.
I find his car expense inflated and excessive. Am I wrong in that?

[blinkandimgone]

No receipts, no expense, no deduction.

And yes, it is inflated. Nobody spends $8000 for car expenses, if it was that high, they'd be getting a new car, not pouring it into repairs / upkeep for an old one.

[Beachnana]

At that salary its hard to see he will have financial hardship travelling to see his son. My daughter agreement has a 1/3 reduction calculated at the initial CS amount and then he is responsible for all his travel. No receipts required. The incomes are much lower, so yes it is conceivable that it would be construed by a judge to be a financial hardship, so she agreed.

Its not worth fighting to get receipts. It is likely never going to happen. Suggest a lower amount of travel allowance reduction from the CS and take out the receipts. The amount of legal fees and time to enforce that would not be worth it.

For section 7 work out the annual daycare you expect to pay and divide by 12 months and put that specific amount into the agreement. If varies a day or two its not that significant. For other section 7 expenses put in a monthly amount to cover normal child related expenses. Swimming lesson, scouts, karate that your child has been attending up to now. Then you will need to put in a clause to cover future individual or team sports, summer day camps. But expect him not to agree and not to,pay his portion so start saving up.

In time maybe he will put his hand in his pocket and offer to pay. But at the end of the day you do not want to make your life full of fighting and conflict over money. Adjust your plans to meet your income and move on.

[MS Mom]

If the car is leased that is considered an expense. If it is owned, the car is an asset and the depreciation is an expense.

If the lease is 500/m and the insurance is 200/m, the total expense is over 8000, and that doesn't include fuel, maintenance or licensing.

[DowntroddenDad]

I haven't checked in a while but last time I expensed car travel at work the rate was $0.56 per km. That was to cover all costs, gas, insurance, maintenance, wear and tear.

At that rate $8000 would cover 14,000 kms, or 7 trips from Ottawa to Toronto and back.

[Serene]

MS mom is right. I easily spend over 10K a year on each car. And we don't drive expensive vehicles at all.

[stripes]

An update:

My ex states that his car expense is 8,000 anticipated and travel is 7500.
I find his car expense inflated and excessive. Am I wrong in that?

Are those the payments he makes on the car? (Car loan or lease payments)? If so, not your problem, because he's purchasing an asset or a service for himself (the car itself, if it's a loan, or the exclusive use of the car, if it's a lease) with that money. If the $8K are operating costs for keeping the car going, on top of the $7 500 for "travel", that's ridiculous.

As for the $7.5K: at work, I can expense travel in my own vehicle at $.63/km (provincial government rate). If your ex were to expense his car travel to visit the kid at that rate, how much would it come out to? That is the amount that it's reasonable for you to share with him, in the form of reduced CS.

[FB_]

I spend $420 / month on Gas alone driving to work in the GTA. That's $5000 / year

[MS Mom]

Are those the payments he makes on the car? (Car loan or lease payments)? If so, not your problem, because he's purchasing an asset or a service for himself (the car itself, if it's a loan, or the exclusive use of the car, if it's a lease) with that money. If the $8K are operating costs for keeping the car going, on top of the $7 500 for "travel", that's ridiculous.

As for the $7.5K: at work, I can expense travel in my own vehicle at $.63/km (provincial government rate). If your ex were to expense his car travel to visit the kid at that rate, how much would it come out to? That is the amount that it's reasonable for you to share with him, in the form of reduced CS.

As an aside -

.63/km?? Wow. I'm blown away that the province would compensate at 63/km when CRA considers anything paid over 56/km (for the first 5000km in a year - after 5000km it drops even lower) taxable income.

For the OP -

On the income of 165K - does a 15K reduction in income really affect the overall CS payable significantly?

[arabian]

$.63/km (provincial government rate).

Meal and vehicle rates used to calculate travel expenses for 2013 and previous years

You must live in the Yukon?

[stripes]

As an aside -

.63/km?? Wow. I'm blown away that the province would compensate at 63/km when CRA considers anything paid over 56/km (for the first 5000km in a year - after 5000km it drops even lower) taxable income.

For the OP -

On the income of 165K - does a 15K reduction in income really affect the overall CS payable significantly?

My bad, it's actually $.46/km. I just went and checked. In case anyone really cares ...

[MS Mom]

My bad, it's actually $.46/km. I just went and checked. In case anyone really cares ...

Darn. I was all prepared to lobby the boss for a mileage raise!!

[arabian]

...wouldn't be surprised if Ontario Liberals have the rate at .63 - they have to keep those government workers happy!

[roxyroller71]

Sorry for the length!
Thanks everyone for their input. It's been helpful.
First of all my ex owns his car and he is provided mileage through work and depreciation.
My understanding is that it's shown in his T4, and he should be able to provide his expense report that he also submits to work.
Am I wrong?

This is a personal vehicle he uses for work. This is not a vehicle he uses to visit his son. One thing for sure is that he has had a history of fraudulent expenses and also filing income tax returns with bad info.....that's why I'm very careful and have to be knowledgeable. It's not like I want him to lose his job.

His travel costs to visit his son is at 7500.00. That I know for a fact is inflated and not realistic. I think he should fly economy and plan ahead since he knows when his visitation is. Book your flights ahead or get flight passes. Keep in mind his company was also paying his flights in and claiming them as out of pocket. (Yes ...I chose a real winner).

I just ask he provide receipts to get deductions off child support for any deduction. The judge said he should provide an analysis of expenses which I take to me "show me the expenses" !
(Am I wrong?)

For me it's maybe 50-100 difference a month. So it's not a BIG deal....and yes the lawyers are getting everything, not my son. (I wish it wasn't so since I'm at 50,000 spent)

My action plan: no receipts no deductions, if receipts are submitted look them over carefully and match what is on his T4, pay stubs etc.
I'm going to look into the mileage plan at his work and maybe he will disclose that info. I guess ask him to provide his work contract in regards to expenses such as vehicle.