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  • #31
    Originally posted by Tayken View Post
    CanLII - Search all CanLII Databases

    Nutcracker and divorce comes up 3 times on CanLII federally.

    For some reason, angry people either destroy tickets to the nutcracker and or literally flush them down the toilet.
    That is a shame really. It is a good show. The poor nutcracker always gets the brunt of the anger. In the end though, it all works out for him.

    Hadenoughs original post did make me laugh. Your citations also put a smile to my face today. Thank you both

    Comment


    • #32
      Holy snappers - did you read the Ryan v. Ryan?
      There is a new wife/stepmother gone crazy.
      Start a discussion, not a fire. Post with kindness.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by mcdreamy View Post
        Holy snappers - did you read the Ryan v. Ryan?
        There is a new wife/stepmother gone crazy.
        I didn't even intend for that but, interesting and relevant to the thread:

        The father is also asking that restrictions presently placed on his new wife, which prevent the father from leaving the children in her care alone, be lifted.
        The restrictions were lifted but, wow... Just wow. I didn't even notice that one. I was just searching "nutcracker".

        Something interesting to note:

        The mother submitted that this hearsay evidence was an attempt by the father to get before the Court a psychologist report that was specifically disallowed by the College of Psychologists because the psychologist in question was acting in the dual role as both a therapist and an assessor without the written consent of the mother. The psychologist in question voluntarily withdrew his Affidavit that had been provided by the father because he was strictly prohibited by the College of Psychologists from acting in the dual role. It was argued by the mother that the father’s Supplementary Affidavit dated March 3, 2009 was an “end run” to get this evidence before the Court and that it was improper.
        Good Luck!
        Tayken

        Comment


        • #34
          it was a good read.

          Speaking of relevance,my questions that began this thread, and the single question which was asked as a result, have been left unanswered.

          Regaedless, the discussion certainly became intresting.

          I was hoping for further insight.

          Comment


          • #35
            Lol re: the Nutcracker!! I didn't think anyone had noticed my little comment. The Ballet Performance is one of my favorites, and I'd never destroy tickets to attend

            I have a feeling my gift might get tossed out as well, but that's okay

            As for perceptions of divorce: my child seems to have weathered it all quite well. We have had to develop a very good sense of humor at our house and I think on a positive note: S14 sees that (eventually) wrongs can be made right, that the ability to overcome is present and strong, as well as the fact that mom didn't roll over and take the boots (metaphorically speaking).

            I chose the path I did (taking my matter to Court) for the eventual benefit of my son. Had I not done so, we would be much worse off although these last few years have been difficult. I fully expect the new year to bring us closure on a few things, although most days I have the feeling that none of this is ever really 'over.' We just (hopefully) learn to deal with it better. I'm likely repeating myself when I say that.

            I'm a tad concerned that the "gift" doubles as a blunt object. Hoping I won't have to ever worry about that. Other than that, it's quite tasteful and I considered keeping it but decided I'd like to "give it" more than I want to keep it, lol.
            Last edited by hadenough; 11-11-2012, 07:06 PM.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by hadenough View Post
              Lol re: the Nutcracker!! I didn't think anyone had noticed my little comment. The Ballet Performance is one of my favorites, and I'd never destroy tickets to attend

              I have a feeling my gift might get tossed out as well, but that's okay

              As for perceptions of divorce: my child seems to have weathered it all quite well. We have had to develop a very good sense of humor at our house and I think on a positive note: S14 sees that (eventually) wrongs can be made right, that the ability to overcome is present and strong, as well as the fact that mom didn't roll over and take the boots (metaphorically speaking).

              I chose the path I did (taking my matter to Court) for the eventual benefit of my son. Had I not done so, we would be much worse off although these last few years have been difficult. I fully expect the new year to bring us closure on a few things, although most days I have the feeling that none of this is ever really 'over.' We just (hopefully) learn to deal with it better. I'm likely repeating myself when I say that.

              I'm a tad concerned that the "gift" doubles as a blunt object. Hoping I won't have to ever worry about that. Other than that, it's quite tasteful and I considered keeping it but decided I'd like to "give it" more than I want to keep it, lol.
              I think your sense of humour must help you as well. Thank you hadenough.

              Oh and LOL

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                So, you are a qualified child psychologist and can provide statements from a minor child statements of truth that the mother in question is "absolutely horrible"?
                I do have medical background, as a matter of fact. However, my opinion of horrible behaviour hardly takes a degree. Anyone can make this claim, it is clearly an opinion and I gave an example, both here and on other posts, of what I am describing. If others do not consider this to be bad behaviour, that is their opinion.

                Why have you not acted on this to protect the child in question through the family courts? You seem very assertive and definite on the statements made against the other parent in the matter.
                I/we (my husband) have. As I stated before, it seems no one really cares. I read on this site a few weeks ago someone said if the 'behaviour/abuse' is not so bad that if you were dead and the parent was single, would CAS actually take the child away? I thought this was wonderful advice and something to think about. Just because the behaviour is bad, does not mean that I am saying I feel the child (MY STEP-SON) should be taken from his mother. I do think however, that he has been place under tremendous stress by her and his siblings and grandma intensional over the past few years.



                But, you claim to have "evidence" to the "absolutely horrible" other parent? Have you contacted the CAS about your concerns? Has the actual parent in the matter to the child in question brought forward your grave concerns about the "absolutely horrible" other parent to the Family Court?
                Yes, these issues were all but dismissed. As I have written on other posts, when we tried to discuss these issues with the OCL, they cut us off and said it was hearsay. We asked the OCL investigator if he would like to see some of the emails from the past 2 years, he declined. Then he had the nerve in his report to state 'emails between the parties show no conflict. They are able to communicate.' WTF?!?! We are not aware of what emails he is refering to at all??? And yes, this was all brought before the judge, who took 15 min to rule in favour of the OCL report.



                100 messages over two years...

                2 years is 730 days. (2 * 356 = 730)

                100 messages over 730 days is an average of 0.13698630137 messages a day. The horrors of this "absolutely horrible" other parent. How do you cope with such conflict and harassment?
                Where did you learn to do math??
                100 messages over 730 days is 1 example every 7.3 days. And yes, I support the fact that we have had some sort of incident at least once a week (on average) for the past 2 years. I said 'examples' not messages. Weather its his oldest kids emails, his ex's emails, something we heard from the child, whatever, it is examples of the 'horrible behaviour' of his mother.



                Note the red, bold and underlined word in that quote. The child in question is not yours. Might I suggest that this might be part of *your* problem, reason for being and posting on this site and challenge/conflict you are "experiencing".
                I never said he is my child. I will not even entertain such stupidity. Also, please show me an example (as you frequently ask of others) of any judge anywhere who has look 'unfavouralbe' at someone refering to a child as 'my step-son'. I'm waiting.

                In fact, at 12 a child's opinion on residential location DOES matter and WILL be heard by a court and given weight.
                I am very well aware of this. My point, is that this was not appropriate in anyway to tell a 9 year old (you are the one who always wants to focus on the children). It is true that a court will hear their opinion, but NOT that a child HAS to chose between his parents at the age of 12, which is what MY poor step-son was told. Are you actually suggesting that this is appropriate to tell a 9 year old? He came to us crying because he thought he would either not see us, or not see his mom ever again after the age of 12.



                Did you consider that probably half of the other kids the child of your husband (father) and the child's mother are living seperate and apart. That the child in question may have talked to a friend. A friend may have communicated this. The child may have talked to the "horribly awful" other parent about this and that was about it?
                Your agrument here is weak....again. I am stating a FACT that I would swear to in court, that MY STEP-SON came to us crying stating, 'Mom keeps asking me which school I want to go to. She says when I'm 12 I have to decide who I want to live with.' Under the circumstances of our situation, which you have not lived through for the past 2+ years, this made perfect sense to us, and we never questioned who said what to him.

                I challenge you to bring forward a motion on a "material change in circumstance" and request the involvement of an S.30 evaluator (CLRA Rule) and/or OCL and present your "evidence".
                We did. It did not help. We discussed many issues, offered evidence, none of it seemed to matter. Again, with a hundred examples, I really don't know what you want to hear. OCL was aware that his oldest kids, who are adults, were given all emails between them and court documents. They were also interviewed by the OCL investigator, as was I, which I would say makes me pretty involved in the situation. And yes, the OCL investigator wanted my opinion on matters regarding the parents.



                1. Your husband, who is the legal parent to the child in question hasn't contacted the CAS about "weekly" and "literal" "abuse"?
                What for? Its emotional abuse. Unlike his ex, we are not high conflict. We do not think it is in his best interests to be taken from his mother. We have only ever asked for equal time share. We think if the OCL and the courts did not seem to care, why would the CAS?

                2. Again, the child in question is not "your child". The parental responsibility of the child in question lies with the father and mother. Children are not property.
                Get a life. He is MY STEP-SON. I don't believe this implies I own him. Stick with the agruments/discussions at hand and you would get more respect.


                (a) Go on motion, attach the emails to an affidavit demonstrating involvement of the "oldest kids" in the matter to the court?
                Done, they don't care.

                (b) Call CAS and provide them with the emails you claim are happening?
                See my above statement re. CAS.




                Yet, what have you don't to protect the children in question from the "suffering"? Or are you just lamenting?
                We took him to councelling (by we, I should say my husband). When the councellor asked him at the very first interview, 'what are your concerns?' MY STEP-SON'S response was 'my brother spends to much money in gas to drive me to school' And yes this was brought to the judges attention as well.
                The mother and brother had been complaining to MY nine year-old step-son about how much it cost them to drive him to school after the mother moved 30 min away because she did not get what she wanted in court and MY STEP-SON was ordered to stay in his same school blocks from our home. So they spent the next year filling his head with crap like this to get him so stressed to say he wanted to change schools. Judge did not care. Changed his school and assess schedule on an emergency motion in 15 minutes time.


                Well, an email sent to a child by a parent containing court documentation is not "hearsay". So either you don't have the evidence or don't know what "hearsay" is.
                The children in question are adult children. You always speak about 'relavant' evidence. I'm not sure how relevant this issue is to MY STEP-SON. It was in affidavit about the lack of communication between oldest kids and mother putting them in middle, emails, etc. Guess it did not matter.

                An email, that has a full trace route of the header from sender to receiver that has a carbon copy to a child is not "hearsay". It is cogent and relevant evidence.

                Your "alleged conversation" with children is "hearsay". Unless the child confirms the conversation and concerns to the OCL that were expressed to you... It is "hearsay" (also known as "he said - she said" and possibly in your matter "what you said and what the other parent said")
                Yes, thank-you. I know what hearsay is. This incidence took place after OCL investigation and the incidence prior to this were not investigated by the OCL. OCL said they would not discuss anything about this type of thing with child because it would place them under so much stress, which I agree, it would. Are you actually suggesting I get we get the child to sign sworen statement everytime he tells us something? Or ask the judge to put him on the stand?



                Actually, as posted by another litigant as stated by a respective justice... "Its all about perception".

                If conflict is happening as you stated, then the evidence to the conflict and origination of the conflict has a clear paper trail. But, if you perceive the other party to be conflicted without evaluating your own contribution and possibly conflicted actions... You may not notice when you are creating the conflict.
                I absolutely am creating the conflict!!!! 100%!!!! My being alive and having had a child by my husband is what has created conflict in the first place!!! Separation was going fine until hubby got together with me!

                Suffice to say, calling someone horrible, abusive, and the other words used in your own message don't lead to no conflict. In fact, they lead directly to CONFLICT. Furthermore, they may demonstrate the party who may be causing the conflict in the matter... Just a hypothesis.
                Yes, if I/we were making those claims directly to her, it would create more conflict. Saying them on a forum, don't think so.
                Last edited by Mess; 11-11-2012, 09:48 PM. Reason: Fix quotations

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                  Where did you learn to do math??

                  100 messages over 730 days is 1 example every 7.3 days. And yes, I support the fact that we have had some sort of incident at least once a week (on average) for the past 2 years. I said 'examples' not messages. Weather its his oldest kids emails, his ex's emails, something we heard from the child, whatever, it is examples of the 'horrible behaviour' of his mother.
                  In grade school:

                  How to Calculate the Mean Value

                  In other words it is the sum divided by the count.
                  What I provided was the average (mean) per day.

                  100 (number of messages) / 730 (total days) = 0.13698630137 messages per day.

                  Good Luck!
                  Tayken

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                    Yes, if I/we were making those claims directly to her, it would create more conflict. Saying them on a forum, don't think so.
                    Hear is hoping that the other party in the litigation hasn't retained Feldstein Family Law Group:

                    Social Media and Family Law

                    You would be surprised how many threads from this forum make it into continuing records and are placed in the hands of CAS workers from parents who identify the other parent posting on this site on prima facie evidence.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Sorry, one last paragraph, got cut off.

                      This would be one OCL report that would be very interesting to read to say the least "wife#2". Clearly you have been interviewed by the OCL and I do encourage you to read it, understand the observations made by the OCL and share them with everyone in this community.
                      If you think I would actually put MY STEP-SON, husband, myself, my family on this site for your own curiousody, you are dead wrong. As someone else pointed out, why don't you share a little information about yourself? You ask it of everyone else, but are you to good to provide your own court documents 'with everyone in this community'.

                      Sorry for all the spelling errors! No time to go through and fix now!
                      Last edited by Mess; 11-11-2012, 09:50 PM. Reason: Fixed quotation

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Tayken View Post
                        Hear is hoping that the other party in the litigation hasn't retained Feldstein Family Law Group:

                        Social Media and Family Law

                        You would be surprised how many threads from this forum make it into continuing records and are placed in the hands of CAS workers from parents who identify the other parent posting on this site on prima facie evidence.
                        I'm shaking in my boots!!! I would be more than happy to explain to any judge that seeing an 8 then 9 now 10 year old crying often, saying what he has said to us, reading emails, texts etc in my opinion is a form of emotional abuse. I am no expert, but I am someone who has spent 50% of their time with this child for over a year.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          I do have medical background, as a matter of fact.
                          In what area of "medicine"?

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          However, my opinion of horrible behaviour hardly takes a degree. Anyone can make this claim, it is clearly an opinion and I gave an example, both here and on other posts, of what I am describing. If others do not consider this to be bad behaviour, that is their opinion.
                          Well, clearly in your message and in your own admissions against interest no one "believes" your allegations.

                          See highlight in red below to the admission against interest:

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          I/we (my husband) have. As I stated before, it seems no one really cares.
                          Any reason "no one really cares"?

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          I read on this site a few weeks ago someone said if the 'behaviour/abuse' is not so bad that if you were dead and the parent was single, would CAS actually take the child away? I thought this was wonderful advice and something to think about. Just because the behaviour is bad, does not mean that I am saying I feel the child (MY STEP-SON) should be taken from his mother. I do think however, that he has been place under tremendous stress by her and his siblings and grandma intentional over the past few years.
                          Again, you have to demonstrate intent. Your "feelings" for a matter doesn't demonstrate "intent".

                          Again, in an admission against interest you state that your claims to the "horribleness" of the other parent was "dismissed".

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          Yes, these issues were all but dismissed. ... (cut) ... state 'emails between the parties show no conflict. They are able to communicate.' WTF?!?! We are not aware of what emails he is referring to at all??? And yes, this was all brought before the judge, who took 15 min to rule in favour of the OCL report.
                          Did you present the email counter to your claims that conflict does exist as evidence to an affidavit. I am assuming that your husband, the parent in the matter and litigant, is unrepresented.

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          I never said he is my child. I will not even entertain such stupidity.
                          No need for a personal insult like this and an attack on one's intelligence. You will note the fact that the quote is from your own message which is persisted on this board. I put an emphasis on your statement of "my child".

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          Also, please show me an example (as you frequently ask of others) of any judge anywhere who has look 'unfavouralbe' at someone refering to a child as 'my step-son'. I'm waiting.
                          Feel free to persue the jurisprudence posted on this site that I regularly provide. In fact, one poster, brave enough to post their case law on this site provides more than enough jurisprudence that a repeated belief of "ownership" to a child can lead to a decision of "sole custody" to a parent.

                          No need to quote this jurisprudence as this board is littered with it already and others.

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          I am very well aware of this. My point, is that this was not appropriate in anyway to tell a 9 year old (you are the one who always wants to focus on the children). It is true that a court will hear their opinion, but NOT that a child HAS to chose between his parents at the age of 12, which is what MY poor step-son was told.
                          Again, please see your quotes, which are an admission against interest that the courts have not accepted your "evidence" when weighed on the balance of probabilities and "dismissed" these allegations already.

                          Repeating them on this board may be cathartic but, your admissions against interest don't give your argument much weight unfortunately.

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          Are you actually suggesting that this is appropriate to tell a 9 year old? He came to us crying because he thought he would either not see us, or not see his mom ever again after the age of 12.
                          Again, this is your side of the "story" (allegation) and in cosideration to your above cited quotes in an admission against interest. It is hard for me to "believe" your statements as truthful and factual when a court has already dismissed your claims apparently.

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          Your agrument here is weak....again. I am stating a FACT that I would swear to in court, that MY STEP-SON came to us crying stating, 'Mom keeps asking me which school I want to go to. She says when I'm 12 I have to decide who I want to live with.' Under the circumstances of our situation, which you have not lived through for the past 2+ years, this made perfect sense to us, and we never questioned who said what to him.
                          People swear all sorts of things to the "truth" in affidavits. It doesn't make them "the truth". It is an "affirmation" that the person "believes" it to be true. After weighting on the balance of probability and after judgement is made does it become the truth. Again, in your own admission against interest the weighting on your allegations appears to not have been considered "truthful enough" to change the custody and access order in the matter.

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          We did. It did not help. We discussed many issues, offered evidence, none of it seemed to matter. Again, with a hundred examples, I really don't know what you want to hear.
                          What I "want" to hear is completely irrelevant. The "evidence" that needs to be presented to a justice in the Family Court is what matters. And again, you admit against interest that the allegations "did not help".

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          OCL was aware that his oldest kids, who are adults, were given all emails between them and court documents. They were also interviewed by the OCL investigator, as was I, which I would say makes me pretty involved in the situation. And yes, the OCL investigator wanted my opinion on matters regarding the parents.
                          The real question was, did the OCL reporter state anything about you, your involvement in the matter at all? Or were you the "perfect parent"?

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          What for? Its emotional abuse. Unlike his ex, we are not high conflict. We do not think it is in his best interests to be taken from his mother. We have only ever asked for equal time share. We think if the OCL and the courts did not seem to care, why would the CAS?
                          You have called me stupid, insulted my intelligence, used an explicit statement ("WTF") in this correspondence... Not sure how this demonstrates you as not being "high conflict".

                          Originally posted by wife#2;115383[B
                          ]Get a life.[/B] He is MY STEP-SON. I don't believe this implies I own him. Stick with the agruments/discussions at hand and you would get more respect.
                          Really excellent way to demonstrate you are not a "high conflict" person with this whole statement. Not sure what the intent is other than to generate conflict with me as someone responding to your content. Unfortunate but cogent and relevant evidence to your possible desire to create conflict with anyone who doesn't "believe" you.

                          Also, all wrapped up with a personal insult. Unfortunate as well.

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          (a) Go on motion, attach the emails to an affidavit demonstrating involvement of the "oldest kids" in the matter to the court?
                          Nope.

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          We took him to councelling (by we, I should say my husband). When the councellor asked him at the very first interview, 'what are your concerns?' MY STEP-SON'S response was 'my brother spends to much money in gas to drive me to school' And yes this was brought to the judges attention as well.
                          I am speechless... Rarely, but, not sure how this is relevant to the debate here?

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          The mother and brother had been complaining to MY nine year-old step-son about how much it cost them to drive him to school after the mother moved 30 min away because she did not get what she wanted in court and MY STEP-SON was ordered to stay in his same school blocks from our home. So they spent the next year filling his head with crap like this to get him so stressed to say he wanted to change schools. Judge did not care. Changed his school and assess schedule on an emergency motion in 15 minutes time.
                          Proceed to trial then? Motions are only on a temporary basis. When is trial scheduled in the matter?

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          The children in question are adult children. You always speak about 'relavant' evidence. I'm not sure how relevant this issue is to MY STEP-SON. It was in affidavit about the lack of communication between oldest kids and mother putting them in middle, emails, etc. Guess it did not matter.
                          Actually I always discuss cogent and "relevant" evidence, not "relavant" to be exact.

                          How you present your argument is equally as important as the evidence supporting your argument.

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          Yes, thank-you. I know what hearsay is.
                          Ok, what do you define as "hearsay"?

                          Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                          This incidence took place after OCL investigation and the incidence prior to this were not investigated by the OCL. OCL said they would not discuss anything about this type of thing with child because it would place them under so much stress, which I agree, it would. Are you actually suggesting I get we get the child to sign sworen statement everytime he tells us something? Or ask the judge to put him on the stand?
                          No, I am not suggesting that you get the child to sign a "sworen" (sworn) statement for each time this happens. I am suggesting that you view the matter from the eyes of the child, their age and their level of education and understanding. That is all.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Please explain how your example that you provided is in anyway related to my concerns of horrible behaviour/emotion abuse? The example of a father on fb posting things about his ex where everyones knows his identity, his ex's identity and his child's identity is hardly the same situation as a forum such as this. Also, the child had access to these posts. If you would like to give me an example of my situation, I'm all ears! Also, still waiting for that example of a judge who looks down on someone who says 'my step-son'.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                              Sorry, one last paragraph, got cut off.

                              This would be one OCL report that would be very interesting to read to say the least "wife#2". Clearly you have been interviewed by the OCL and I do encourage you to read it, understand the observations made by the OCL and share them with everyone in this community.

                              If you think I would actually put MY STEP-SON, husband, myself, my family on this site for your own curiousody, you are dead wrong. As someone else pointed out, why don't you share a little information about yourself? You ask it of everyone else, but are you to good to provide your own court documents 'with everyone in this community'.
                              But you do this in your responses. Children's ages, locations, intimate details about your court file etc...

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by wife#2 View Post
                                Please explain how your example that you provided is in anyway related to my concerns of horrible behaviour/emotion abuse? The example of a father on fb posting things about his ex where everyones knows his identity, his ex's identity and his child's identity is hardly the same situation as a forum such as this. Also, the child had access to these posts. If you would like to give me an example of my situation, I'm all ears! Also, still waiting for that example of a judge who looks down on someone who says 'my step-son'.
                                I note that there have been people identified on this site to their case law by other members (not me) based on information provided to this forum in the past... Just saying...

                                Comment

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