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  • Technicality and Office of the Children's Lawyer

    Hi, everyone!

    Love the support and knowledge shared on this forum. Well done!

    Background: I am a father of three kids between the ages 7-12. She got into a relationship with her boss/co-worker and I said goodbye.

    Situation: I went to court yesterday for first case conference. She had lawyer, I was self represented. Right away, problem: provincial court not able to rule on matter of property, either I go to Superior court or amend my file to leave out constructive trust claim.

    Questions:

    1. What course of action would you suggest to me when her counsel approached me before our court proceeding to ask me if I was willing to use the Office of the Children's Lawyer? I told her I was unable to do anything unless I first receive legal counsel on the matter. But I think something is up....I have 100% confidence in my parenting and my kids are caught in the middle of this mess, as usual.
    2. Would you drop the trust claim? Should I fight this in superior court? I feel I need to fight back the best I can by going on the offensive, but really all I care about is my custody and access of the children.

  • #2
    Interim situation: We postpone till next month. Day in court costs her a bundle, but I asked the judge at least to enforce the status quo so I am not denied access any more. She asks me what the status quo was, I tell her every weekend and midweek visit since about last year. My ex's lawyer looks kind of confused, says every second weekend, my ex 'confirms' it.
    I'm left with suprised look on my face at the lie. The judge in all honesty can't fairly understand truth based on so little evidence and tries to be fair by giving us alternating weekends. I am going to spend even less time with my kiddies over the next six weeks!!

    I had no idea how to quickly prove the outright lie, I offered the judge to see the calendar I had made up of my time with kids over last year, but unfortunately I really think the lack of a lawyer really screwed me. I have like my dad as a witness, we spent the last year at his house because all I had was a frikkin' room!

    Injury to insult: my oldest son asked me on the phone: "Are you coming to pick him us tomorrow?" I said: "What?" in disbelief because I thought his mother had already told him. He answers: "You usually pick us up every Friday for the weekend" I almost cried right there.

    Comment


    • #3
      From the OCL website:

      The Office of the Children's Lawyer may not provide services in the following circumstances:

      7. Support and/or property issues are the primary concerns and the custody and access arrangements have been relatively stable for an appreciable period of time;
      8. The primary purpose is to obtain evidence to further the litigation;
      9. Other resolution efforts should have occurred and have not been attempted;

      Comment


      • #4
        You should have refused the judge's decision right there. You don't have to agree to anything at a case conference.

        Depending on the age of your children, if they are 10+, consider getting a written confirmation of the amount of time they spent with you. Get any other confirmation you can, like credit card receipts for movies or dinners out or any activities. If there were any regular witnesses get them to sign an affidavit. Put this together as a package of supporting evidence, then make an affidavit of your own and immediately seek a motion to alter the custody schedule. Now that you have had a case conference you can seek motions. You couldn't do that before.

        Strongly consider legal advice on this, you may still represent yourself but get a lawyer to help you with your arguments, supporting evidence and filing out forms, as well as discussing options and avoiding pitfalls. You can keep your costs down by going in with a clear list of questions and issues and keeping control of the agenda of any meeting with your lawyer, if a lawyer says you can't, ask why, if they say you shouldn't, find out why, don't let them decide for you. Use them as a source of information.

        You can learn a lot here but we are just a bunch of anonymous people on the internet. Make sure you confirm everything you read.

        Regarding the OCL you did the right thing. The best response would have been to ask for a written list of factual reasons why they believe that the OCL involvment would be in the best interest of the children. Do not agree to anything without clear factual reasons, not an interim custody order, not OCL involvement, nothing. You may have an order forced on you, but do not volunteer. Make them commit reasons to paper. If they make some other accusations about your parenting later, you can rightly claim your agreement was coerced.

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks and some thoughts

          First of all Mess, let me thank you profusely for your post. It has definitely opened my eyes even further. I have some points questions as I reread your post and think about what had transpired:

          1. The judge said really she could not make a decision based on the jurisdiction. However, she did when I asked her to protect the status quo after having been denied access. I wonder, is there somehow where I can get a copy of what actually took place, like a record stating what had been said? I want proof again that her lawyer and my ex 'misrepresented the facts' about the status quo.
          2. You said because I already had a case conference, I can seek motions, however I don't think it was a proper case conference because the judge told me she couldn't do anything until the claims were either amended or the whole thing sent to the superior court. Sounds like a catch 22 to me in terms of being able to seek a motion to 'alter' her decision.
          3. Regarding the OCL sub-plot her lawyer is trying to start, do you think I should email/write her lawyer to ask for "a written list of factual reasons why they believe that the OCL involvement would be in the best interest of the children"?
          4. Regarding the affidavits to prove I had the kids mostly every weekend, I will have support from my father, whose home we stayed at while a build up out of my financial hole. He is a retired RCMP officer. Plus others. Two of my kids are over 10 and 12.

          Once again Mess, grazie mille and I really appreciate your assistance here!

          Comment


          • #6
            There is no written record of the case conference and even the briefs you prepare are usually thrown out. The judge's order is interim, not final, and in some way, shape or form you have to agree to the order. At best do you have a copy of their brief, which should have some indication of what they sought and why?

            It was a case conference, you can file a motion now. It's very common for a judge to say that other things must be done first, etc, this is the point of the conferences.

            I think you should write them, come across as though you are amicable and co-operative but do not give consent, you are interested. Then ask for their reasons and issues. This could help to keep them from blindsiding you on something you haven't thought of.

            The affidavits are good, if you have some kind of receipts from taking them out this would be great. Any small thing that is independent will help. Be cautious about how you word things with the kids, for example sit at the table and ask them to help you with a calendar but don't go off about how this is for custody or court.

            Comment


            • #7
              Damn, that's right, there is no written record of the case conference. I wonder what the rationale is not to keep a record? I do of course have a copy of the opposing case conference brief, and it definitely indicates what they wanted ("reasonable and generous access" = yup, two weekends/mth). I'll have to see how to bring forward a motion in the less than 6 weeks left.

              **** Left out some personal bitterness here, realize I would rather be focused on the positive and on what I need to do rather than vent. *******

              Thanks for the tip, I will certainly write an email to see what is up about OCL. Very strange indeed, and I think it will have something to do more with character assassination rather than parenting.

              I have receipts to back things up, I keep digital copies of all my banking transactions, a good habit that comes with being broke all the time after starting from scratch. Things are looking good though even in this area for me and the kids.

              Comment


              • #8
                If you can prove your statement with respect to the status quo -- Order yourself a transcript of the case conference and use their 'lie" to discredit them in future proceedings.

                A dated log book with access times is very useful especially if it can be verified with receipts of activities with they were in your care previously.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ah, you are so right, I need a log book that deals only with my interactions with my ex and keeps track of time and events with the kids. I think I needed a little more than the little red book I kept with me over the last year.

                  I am not sure how to order a transcript of the case conference, that is exactly what I need though!

                  Thanks for the comments, logicalvelocity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Ask the clerk where you could order transcript at your particular jurisdiction. Once in hand - I think I would attach as exhibit to affidavit in future proceeding to increase child's access by way of motion asap.

                    Additionally, if the transcript is not in hand - One can always refer to the transcript when labeling them as untruthful. They know they lied and its on record.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Can't hurt to try, either. Thanks again.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        In regards to the OCL..I would stay away from it. If you have a reasonable parenting relationship and a status quo you are happy with, then there is no reason to involve them. It is only going to drag out your case (and your stress). Our OCL investigation is going on 4 months now..

                        The advice you've received about the new access is good. I would get on that right away and file your motion. DON'T let it become the new SQ!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hmm, I"ve ben a bit cautious now about talking to her lawyer. Apparently there is some correspondence from them, I can only imagine that they're up to something.

                          My parenting relationship has been excellent, I am not afraid of their attacks although anyone would have a hard time when they try to character assassinate you. I will be fine, I am an exceptional parent in the opinion of many. We'll see.

                          Working on getting that transcript!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by billiechic View Post
                            In regards to the OCL..I would stay away from it. If you have a reasonable parenting relationship and a status quo you are happy with, then there is no reason to involve them. It is only going to drag out your case (and your stress). Our OCL investigation is going on 4 months now..

                            The advice you've received about the new access is good. I would get on that right away and file your motion. DON'T let it become the new SQ!


                            The OCL is there for the CHILD. It is the child's protection from two parents who become unreasonable and can't come to a fair parenting plan that is best for the child.

                            OCL:
                            Is it stressful? Yes
                            Is it painful? Yes
                            Will youlike the results? Nope. I didn't.

                            Is the focus on the "best interest of the child" ? 100% it is.

                            I have no doubt that any OCL investigator is 100% for the child and could care less about the warring parents. It's there job to find out what the real 'scoop" is. And the answer makes some people very nervous because the truth often hurts.,

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              A little later...

                              I finally got a chance to get some info together and make a decision about my recourse. I have been busy and I can't let myself get bogged down in the legal process and her animosity. As I dropped off my kids this evening, my youngest son, 7, began to cry. I asked him what was wrong as I was hugging him and he told me he wanted to stay with me... a serious heart breaker for this soldier!

                              First of all I learned through contacting the court scribe that it isn't allowed to get a copy of the proceedings from the case conference, unless the judge orders it. I may ask for that next court date. Too bad.

                              Second, I will present an affidavit stating how much time I spent with my kids, as detailed as possible. With 'real' people who can back my assertion up.

                              Third, the only motion I will prepare is to ask to take the process to the superior court so I can also go after my property claim. I know there are fees involved at that level, not looking forward to that.

                              You have all been so awesome with your responses, I greatly appreciate it. Thanks sincerely.

                              Comment

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